Is Starfleet a military organization?

[mithril]

Starfleet is definitely paramilitary, in that they use military style ranks and such, but it is not military at its core.

I like to compare Federation Starfleet to Heinlein's "Space Patrol" from the novel Space Cadet. they are paramilitary in organization but their focus is on peacekeeping and scientific discovery. The Patrol's members are expected to give up allegiances to their homelands and instead uphold allegiance to wider society as a whole and the Patrol specifically. not everything carries over (the book had some typical sexism for the time about why the patrol only took men, for example, and the Patrol serves alongside the space marines who were more traditional military, and so on) but i am convinced that this book partly inspired how the writers in TOS and TNG wrote Starfleet. (the section where Matt Dodson's mentor explains to him why the Patrol is only officers, by comparing it to the Marines, to illustrate the values of the patrol.. really feels like it would fit into Trek's starfleet. and given the existence of the MACO's during ENT, it could probably be transplanted verbatim to the 22nd century Earth Starfleet, which appears to be where much of the federation starfleet tradition started)

 

[Tim Thomason]

Is the Pope Catholic?

 

[The Wormhole]

Is the Pope Catholic?

Imagine if we answered that the way people answer the Starfleet Military question. We'd have:
-More than Catholic
-Other than Catholic
-ParaCatholic
-Gene said he wasn't Catholic

 

[fireproof78]

Is the Pope Catholic?

Depends.

 

[GNDN18]

Only on Tuesdays.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In PIC, Jean-Luc Picard is literally said to be one of Starfleet’s top military strategists. Why are we still having this discussion?

 

[fireproof78]

Starfleet is definitely paramilitary, in that they use military style ranks and such, but it is not military at its core.

I like to compare Federation Starfleet to Heinlein's "Space Patrol" from the novel Space Cadet. they are paramilitary in organization but their focus is on peacekeeping and scientific discovery. The Patrol's members are expected to give up allegiances to their homelands and instead uphold allegiance to wider society as a whole and the Patrol specifically. not everything carries over (the book had some typical sexism for the time about why the patrol only took men, for example, and the Patrol serves alongside the space marines who were more traditional military, and so on) but i am convinced that this book partly inspired how the writers in TOS and TNG wrote Starfleet. (the section where Matt Dodson's mentor explains to him why the Patrol is only officers, by comparing it to the Marines, to illustrate the values of the patrol.. really feels like it would fit into Trek's starfleet. and given the existence of the MACO's during ENT, it could probably be transplanted verbatim to the 22nd century Earth Starfleet, which appears to be where much of the federation starfleet tradition started)

First of all, Space Cadet is one of my favorite books and I agree that Star Fleet was influenced by the Star Patrol. But, the big difference between what became Starfleet and the Star Patrol-Starfleet doesn't have Marines/MACOs in the larger part of most Star Trek shows. So, while I think in the ENT era it was a lot closer to the Star Patrol model Starfleet itself when it combined services in to the United Federation of Planets Starfleet the role changed, and Starfleet became the military.

 

[GNDN18]

I think that scientists have always been the pawns of the military.

Spoiler

You might refuse to subscribe to that interpretation.

 

[BK613]

I think that scientists have always been the pawns of the military.

Spoiler

You might refuse to subscribe to that interpretation.

Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years. I cannot and will not subscribe to your interpretation.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years.

LOL. One of the funniest lines in the franchise.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Starfleet is definitely paramilitary, in that they use military style ranks and such, but it is not military at its core.

I like to compare Federation Starfleet to Heinlein's "Space Patrol" from the novel Space Cadet. they are paramilitary in organization but their focus is on peacekeeping and scientific discovery. The Patrol's members are expected to give up allegiances to their homelands and instead uphold allegiance to wider society as a whole and the Patrol specifically. not everything carries over (the book had some typical sexism for the time about why the patrol only took men, for example, and the Patrol serves alongside the space marines who were more traditional military, and so on) but i am convinced that this book partly inspired how the writers in TOS and TNG wrote Starfleet. (the section where Matt Dodson's mentor explains to him why the Patrol is only officers, by comparing it to the Marines, to illustrate the values of the patrol.. really feels like it would fit into Trek's starfleet. and given the existence of the MACO's during ENT, it could probably be transplanted verbatim to the 22nd century Earth Starfleet, which appears to be where much of the federation starfleet tradition started)

By definition (as even implied by your own link), a paramilitary cannot be an official, government-operated organization Starfleet is an official government-operated organization.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Starfleet is obviously military - it’s just not militaristic.

 

[Commander Troi]

Great discussion, folks!

 

[NCC-73515]

Scotty's words are canon, so...

 

[Tuskin38]

Scotty's words are canon, so...

So are Kirk's, and he calls himself a soldier.

Star Trek is full of contradictions.

 

[Nyotarules]

This thread is proof there is nothing new under the sun ...(or the moon, or the stars, or the sky or under the sea)

 

[Commander Troi]

Star Trek is full of contradictions.

YUP!

 

[J.T.B.]

I don't hate these threads like some people, they often generate some pretty good discussion. But for me the novelty of repeating things I've posted before wears off.

That said, I will once again post something I've posted several times because it's from a memoir I really enjoyed. It's about the British Mediterranean Fleet in the 1890s. Was the Victorian Royal Navy a military organization?

I don't think we thought very much about war with a big W. We looked on the Navy more as a World Police Force than as a warlike institution. We considered that our job was to safeguard law and order throughout the world — safeguard civilization, put out fires on shore, and act as guide, philosopher, and friend to merchant ships of all nations.

VAdm (ret) Humphrey H. Smith, A Yellow Admiral Remembers, 1932.​

 

[NCC-73515]

So are Kirk's, and he calls himself a soldier.

Star Trek is full of contradictions.

Did he talk about himself, one person, in that specific situation, or about the entire organization and its general function? He also said he's not a diplomat - do you therefore think SF is not diplomatic?

Also, again from canon:
PICARD: Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

PICARD: Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.

The problem is that in the same scene, they literally discuss the fact that combat skills are part of the role of a Starfleet captain specifically and Starfleet in general.

You can certainly debate definitions (for instance, Starfleet isn't a "military" by Age of Sail definitions in that has only "Security Officers" not infantry, cavalry or any modern successors of the same), but to say that it doesn't have military functions and powers or fit the modern legal definition of a military organisation (or at least hybrid military/law enforcement/other service like the USCG) is curious at best.