Is SNW getting too goofy?

[fireproof78]

I cannot understand the resistance to a musical episode, and I say that as someone who came late to appreciating musicals.

It doesn't sound fun.

That is all.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

This is where, as always, I'm compelled to point out that XENA did the musical-ep thing before BUFFY -- and, yes, "The Bitter Suite" was also a heart-wrencher.

(No disrespect to BUFFY intended; it's just that whenever the the subject of musical eps come up, folks always seem to cite BUFFY as the touchstone, while forgetting about XENA.)

I forgot about Xena and I loved it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

but there's a difference between a silly episode in a 20+ episode season, and a 10 episode season. .

Nope.

 

[Yistaan]

Lower Decks was always supposed to be Trek's Beavis and Butthead or South Park or raunchy "adult" shows along that line (personally I find those more juvenile than adult, but whatever). These shows sell. It's a specific brand of humor that a lot of people obviously like, but before this week fans who didn't prefer it could sort of compartmentalize SNW and LD as separate things and skip LD entirely (which I did after giving it a fair chance for 4.5 episodes).

Then the showrunners went all in on that for the SNW/LD crossover, and that's their right too. I think it's brought out vicious debates because LD is a love it/hate it thing. There's not a lot of in-between. Even Jar-Jar Binks has a lot of SW fans that sort of just accept he's there, and when Jar-Jar did show up in shows like the Clone Wars (or even have entire episodes revolving around him), his more excessive elements were toned down (for example, Jar-Jar did a much better job at keeping his cover posing as Boss Lyonie in front of Grievous for most of TCW episode 'Shadow Warrior', while Boimler couldn't even maintain his boundaries on the Temporal Prime Directive for a few minutes). Even when Jar Jar was paired with Mace Windu in TCW Season 6, Jar-Jar fared well enough that even Mace admitted, "Wesa won" at the end.

Boimler is the punch guy of the jokes, everyone looks down on him, and Pike condescendingly told him he's going to the brig and then a starbase to "be someone else's problem". Maybe people like beating up on the outcast or the one out of place and find that funny, and going by the tone of these boards I can already tell those types of people. I don't find it funny.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Lower Decks was always supposed to be Trek's Beavis and Butthead or South Park.

This is not remotely accurate.

 

[fireproof78]

Nope.

There's really not. A silly episode is silly. Doesn't matter if it's 5, 10 or 20 episodes in a season. If it's silly, it stands out. Trouble with Tribbles stands out. Take me out to the holosuite stands way out.

Lower Decks was always supposed to be Trek's Beavis and Butthead or South Park or raunchy "adult" shows along that line

I find that hard to believe since I cannot stand either South Park or Beavis and Butthead, while Lower Decks approaches the Star Trek world with a loving irreverence. It's willing to have fun with the premise while acknowledging these are the things fans love about it.

The other two shows listed set out to piss people off. I'm sure they thought it was funny; I did not.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The only thing LD has in common with those shows is that they're animated. Their tone, brand of humor, and intended audience are all completely different.

 

[Rahul]

But that's the common misconception about TOS. Well I'll take it if it's "winked at the audience in spots", but many people, when they're getting defensive about SNW, like to point out how TOS "was comedic all the time", which is really not true. That was a drama show first and foremost, which had a three or so outright comedies out of 79 episodes (I Mudd, Tribbles, Piece of the Action) and Gene Coon's tenure as showrunner of about a season's worth of episodes, in which episodes tended to have a humorous coda with everyone laughing it up on the bridge, but many of those came (often incongruously) at the end of otherwise pretty serious business (Galileo Seven, The Changeling immediately come to mind). Comedy left the show pretty much completely once Fred Freiberger took over.

And that was out of 79 episodes. SNW has had 16 so far, at least three of which were 100% comedies, and most of the rest had some heavy lightness going on (sounds like an oxymoron, but it feels heavy because it limits the show, IMO). Does anyone think that Pike's pirate laugh in "The Serene Squall" was a particularly good moment of comedy? I don't think so. But did it make the character look silly? Hell yes. Just one example. The addition of Pelia as strictly a comic relief character only adds to the impression that somebody among TPTB may see this show as a comedy first, drama second.

Interestingly, although tastes differ, and some people here clearly enjoy the lightheartedness, some of the best-rated episodes from fan conversations or also imdb ratings seem to be the ones that were dead serious, like "A Quality of Mercy" and "Ad Astra Per Aspera".

I get the sentiment. It's matter of taste - but for me it works. The "darker" episodes feel so much more serious, purely because it is a change to the more light-hearted "normal" tone.

What I love is that the characters themselves are never meta. I hate it when in Marvel movies the characters make a joke about how silly their names are, or how ridiculous the situations are that "just happened". SNW thankfully never does that. In fact they often pull some serious character drama.

But I also really liked the vibe of "Stargate". Which the actors often described as "a comedy played straight".

Basically, if my sci-fi wants to be super serious, it needs to be hard SF, like Battlestar Galactica or "Alien". Star Trek is often very goofy already, so it IMO helps when it doesn't take itself super serious all the time. IMO it's better a joke on SNW falls flat, than if I start laughing in a super serious emotional scene on PIC talking about suicide because the writers mixed up "hanged" and "hung herself".

For me it's important that the characters stay "true" and believable. Pikes pirate grimace was the rare misfire there. But otherwise SNW treats it's characters with respect, even (especially) in their comedies, and that makes them work for me.
YMMV obviously.

 

[johnjm22]

The only thing LD has in common with those shows is that they're animated. Their tone, brand of humor, and intended audience are all completely different.

Nope.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Why argue something that could so easily be proven to be objectively true?

 

[Captain Jollydark]

Boimler is the punch guy of the jokes, everyone looks down on him, and Pike condescendingly told him he's going to the brig and then a starbase to "be someone else's problem". Maybe people like beating up on the outcast or the one out of place and find that funny, and going by the tone of these boards I can already tell those types of people. I don't find it funny.

By your own admission, you haven't watched enough Lower Decks to know the character of Boimler, so you're making assumptions about him based on your personal experience. But your experience is not reflected in Boimler's character arc. Which you would know if you watched the series.

 

[Yistaan]

Its why James Gunns style of humor (already toned down from unfortunate tweets that got him in trouble with Disney) is so popular, as are his Guardians movies. Characters like Gamora and Nebula are all about knocking other characters down and people find it funny and it sells. I understand Trek trying to get that audience and money, but at the end of the day I personally dont care for it

 

[fireproof78]

By your own admission, you haven't watched enough Lower Decks to know the character of Boimler, so you're making assumptions about him based on your personal experience. But your experience is not reflected in Boimler's character arc. Which you would know if you watched the series.

And ignores that LD actually did some character growth rather than keeping people static in the name of humor.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I mean, Pike's attitude about Boims changes across the episode, reflecting his character arc on the show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes. It's too silly.

It's like the pop culture referential version of Trek.

Nothing wrong will a silly episode, but there's a difference between a silly episode in a 20+ episode season, and a 10 episode season. Also, some of the sillier episode of Trek are more campy in hindsight than they were in the context of their own time.

Not really.

 

[fireproof78]

Is this back to the idea of Star Trek is to be primarily serious business, and humor is only a deviation from the norm?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Its why James Gunns style of humor (already toned down from unfortunate tweets that got him in trouble with Disney) is so popular, as are his Guardians movies. Characters like Gamora and Nebula are all about knocking other characters down and people find it funny and it sells. I understand Trek trying to get that audience and money, but at the end of the day I personally dont care for it

WHUT?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Is this back to the idea of Star Trek is to be primarily serious business, and humor is only a deviation from the norm?

Yes? No?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[fireproof78]

WHUT?

I swear somewhere along the lines LD humor became synonymous with insult humor? 'Cause I watch British TV for that.

 

[Oddish]

A musical Trek? As someone who enjoys musical theater, despite being only sufficiently talented to rate ensemble or minor roles, I look forward to the Rhapsody in gold, red, and blue.