Is prejudice like this widespread?

[Gingerbread Demon]

Story I got on my FB feed.

A man was sick on a Delta Airlines flight, and there was a doctor on board but she was a woman, and black so the flight attendant blocked her from offering assistance to the man.

http://www.someecards.com/life/workplace/tamika-cross-doctor-plane/

I'd like to think this kind of thing does not happen much today, and would surely hope it's on the decline. So disappointing.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

How would you define "widespread"?

There is still systemic racism in the US, which manifests in all kinds of ways, from our disproportionately black prison population, to the severity of black poverty, to stereotypes of black people that range from obnoxious ("black people love watermelon and grape soda hurr hurr!") to deadly ("black men are superhumanly strong!" being used by police as an excuse to shoot them). There is plenty of evidence that black people in particular are viewed as less trustworthy, too. While I've not seen a story specifically like this before (that is, someone not believing a black woman could be a doctor), it's well-documented that, for instance, black women who report symptoms to their doctors are often not believed and this leads to worse health outcomes for them. And black people who live in upper-class neighborhoods still get hassled by police who don't believe that's where they live--some have been arrested for trying to enter their own homes, suspected of being burglars instead. Not to mention dumb racist shit white people do, like flying Confederate flags and wearing blackface.

Would you call that "widespread"?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

How would you define "widespread"?

There is still systemic racism in the US, which manifests in all kinds of ways, from our disproportionately black prison population, to the severity of black poverty, to stereotypes of black people that range from obnoxious ("black people love watermelon and grape soda hurr hurr!") to deadly ("black men are superhumanly strong!" being used by police as an excuse to shoot them). There is plenty of evidence that black people in particular are viewed as less trustworthy, too. While I've not seen a story specifically like this before (that is, someone not believing a black woman could be a doctor), it's well-documented that, for instance, black women who report symptoms to their doctors are often not believed and this leads to worse health outcomes for them. And black people who live in upper-class neighborhoods still get hassled by police who don't believe that's where they live--some have been arrested for trying to enter their own homes, suspected of being burglars instead. Not to mention dumb racist shit white people do, like flying Confederate flags and wearing blackface.

Would you call that "widespread"?

I think I meant widespread as in that there's more reports of stuff like this going on.

I never understood the whole watermelon thing. I guess because I don't live in the USA. So that I don't get, or the thing about fried chicken. I know both are insulting but don't get the why.

I would hope as we move into the future this stuff does decline..

Even my country has had its share of stuff like how in the 50s Italians, Greeks, or Jews were not very tolerated in the 50s and early 60s here. Currently watching a series set in that time period in Australia and geez it's a bit of an eye opener to how these groups were treated in Australia.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I think I meant widespread as in that there's more reports of stuff like this going on.

I never understood the whole watermelon thing. I guess because I don't live in the USA. So that I don't get, or the thing about fried chicken. I know both are insulting but don't get the why.

I would hope as we move into the future this stuff does decline..

Even my country has had its share of stuff like how in the 50s Italians, Greeks, or Jews were not very tolerated in the 50s and early 60s here. Currently watching a series set in that time period in Australia and geez it's a bit of an eye opener to how these groups were treated in Australia.

Wasn't there also recently a video uploaded by a student in Australia who was a racial minority in which he had a conversation with a woman at a bus stop? And this woman was going on and on about how immigrants weren't real Australians and society this, society that...blah blah. So racism is everywhere.

I don't get the fried chicken and watermelon thing either. I'm from Virginia, which is "the south" in the US. It was the capital of the Confederacy in the Civil War, and the home of the first British colony (we are more "historical" than Massachusetts, which gets more attention because of the Thanksgiving story and the Pilgrims, etc) and home to many of the first several US Presidents. Although today a "Blue" state politically for the last few Presidential cycles and likely to be this year too, historically it's been known to be southern, racist, etc. We have a lot of plantations here, and a large Black population.

My white grandfather loved both watermelon and fried chicken. I remember eating watermelon on the porch with him when I was young, and spitting the seeds in the yard. And blacks LOVE them both, too. My best friend is biracial - half black/half-white - and his dad used to go on and on about how to make the perfect fried chicken. Hell, my granny taught me how to make the perfect fried chicken when I was 10 years old. And every summer, you'd be hard-pressed to find any white household in this part of the US that didn't have a watermelon in the fridge. I guess it's the same for Black households. It's just good. It's refreshing to have cold watermelon when it's hot outside.

It's part of the culture of the south, for blacks as well as whites. Comfort food. Viewed CULTURALLY, there is no problem, or shouldn't be. I think the racism part must've come in with cartoons and racist propaganda that appeared in magazines in the early 1900's, showing poor, sharecropper black people with highly-exaggerated features (BLACK skin, big red lips, big noses) munching on watermelon. Somewhere along the line over time, that image took hold as a racist one. I'll need to read up on it to be sure, but I guess that's what happened. EDIT: Yep, I looked it up, and this is exactly what happened.

It's the same with chicken and waffles. It's broadly viewed as "racist." But when I hear someone say that, the first thing I say is "How is it racist? Have you tried chicken and waffles? It's delicious."

It should be something that brings us together...a shared cultural trait, at least in the south. But Jim Crow and years of racist imagery casts a long shadow.

 

[In_Correct]

Black Doctors are actually extremely common. Many people do not believe that Blacks are doctors, or that Blacks are capable of anything significant. It seems that White People are always getting the credit for every major innovation even though it isn't very accurate. It seems that many doctors are Black and some have performed significant medical achievements.

I'd like to think this kind of thing does not happen much today, and would surely hope it's on the decline. So disappointing.

Lol. It is most certainly not on the decline. It is probably even on the rise. Because whenever somebody (especially if they are Black) find success, then others become jealous and even threatened. The News seems to be one huge obsession of "The Black Man did this. The Black Man Didn't Do This. But The Black Man Should Have Done This Instead. Everybody Is Completely Equal. If Something Happens, It Is All Their Fault. And Remember, Folks: It is not enough to obey The Police. You must be loyal to them also. No matter what."

Also, The Black Leadership has been whitewashed, and this supports the propaganda that "If A Powerful Black Man Says It Is So, Then it must be so, and we think that All Blacks Must Agree."

TV of the 1960s and 1970s featured Black Characters, even Starring Characters, and even all Black Casts, but by the 1990s all of this changed around the same time The Clintons became President(s). TV, Soundtracks, and Music had generally changed entirely. There is now the music of acoustic guitars, ukuleles, country music, and the pop music are entirely white and usually blonde. There was also a large increase of sit coms set in NYC, (with the exception of COSBY, a TV series co-starring Madeline Kahn) have many (or only) White characters. Meanwhile In The Real World, The Clintons increased the prison population and also at one time said that Biracial men are "Super Predators". The change of TV, Soundtracks, and Music & the changes in The Real World cannot possibly be a coincidence.

About Watermelon: I have had a Biracial neighbors. Children with a White Mother and a Black Father. And they grow watermelons!!

I did not know the stereotype of Black People and Watermelon. I would think that Black People would hate clothes made from Cotton, however.

But I do not understand the Fried Chicken being associated with Blacks. It could be that poorer Blacks enjoy Fast Food but not necessarily Fried Chicken. When I think of Fried Chicken, I think of Chick Fil A, which is a White Christian Faith Company, or Kentucky Fried Chicken, which appears to be from ... Kentucky.

I am completely unfamiliar with the importance of Waffles.

I think the racism part must've come in with cartoons and racist propaganda

The first half of the 20th century was filled with propaganda. Even Dr. Seuss took part of it. The original intentions of Looney Toons, Merrie Melodies, Silly Symphonies, and Happy Harmonies was meant for military training videos. A time period when Hollywood was owned by The Government (United Productions Of America) and you risked being fired and BlackListed for political beliefs. (Star Trek's Too Short A Season Guest Star Marsha Hunt) Most of these cartoons are banned. The remaining have been overly censored in the 1960s and 1970s and even 1980s but some of them have been restored to original.

showing poor, sharecropper black people with highly-exaggerated features (BLACK skin, big red lips, big noses) munching on watermelon

I never liked Winnie The Pooh And The Blustery Day covering himself in mud and saying "I'm Just A Little Black Raincloud." with Black Mud. I never found Mud to be as black as Tar.

Also Tom & Jerry (Hanna Barbera's version) had a Black Woman (Mammy Two Shoes, Lillian Randolph, replaced by June Foray during the censorship period) that I did not find offensive. But at the same time, an episode with Spike featured them being splashed by mud AND little red bows as well as oversized lips.

 

[Australis]

There was a story here in Oz, iirc, about a white woman in a wheelchair in a coffee shop demanding she be served by a white waitress instead of the black one that tried to (African, I think). I'll try to track it down.

Edit: from FB -

To the woman who recently visited Gloria Jeans in Central for coffee and refused to be served by Josie because of the colour of her skin; you're lucky she didn't shit in your pie like that woman did in The Help.
Josie is one of the most kind and friendly people you could meet but irrespective of her character, she did not deserve to be excluded like this.
What makes it worse is that this nasty lady who asked for another staff member travels in a wheelchair and could quite possibly understand a life made difficult by others assuming less of her.
So, next time you're in the centre and want an awesome drink, come give Josie a hug and say hi. Order a white hot chocolate and watch her laugh at the irony of not saying dark when you order a normal one (it's totally a thing.) Just don't tell her she's not worthy of your time and money because seriously, it's hurtful and she'll tell me about it and I'll tell everyone.
Much light my African sister!

And cheers to Gloria Jeans for refusing to serve the awful woman at all, and to customer Stacey Sellars who stood up to the woman on Josie's behalf. -Your bravery is dearly appreciated.

#buyacoffeefromjosie

And Josie's post:

I would like to thank every kind soul who has shown me love and support since I was the target of racial discrimination last week. I have been inundated with so many beautiful messages from both friends and complete strangers that have left me feeling so blessed to be who I am. I never in a million years thought that the response would be so great and encourage you all to continue to spread this message.
Regardless of which colour, gender, age, size, and shape you are, we are all deserving of love and should be treated accordingly.
To everybody who has ever been refused service because of their skin colour, this is for you. There is absolutely no room for racism anywhere in the world!
To everyone who has kindly planned to visit me at work, I will be on shift on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday and welcome you to share a drink with me. Otherwise thank you all for supporting me and the #buyacoffeefromjosie anti-racism cause

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Wasn't there also recently a video uploaded by a student in Australia who was a racial minority in which he had a conversation with a woman at a bus stop? And this woman was going on and on about how immigrants weren't real Australians and society this, society that...blah blah. So racism is everywhere.

I am probably wrong, but I think I saw that one on facebook or somewhere. Even might have been mentioned on The Project.

I do remember a clip someone did on a bus in either Sydney or Melbourne and it had this woman going completely off her rocker about immigrants..

 

[In_Correct]

From what I understand about racism in other nations, it is either based on the propaganda of U.S.A. but most of the other people aren't Anti-Black nor Blackphobic. They simply hate immigrants.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

It's especially ironic when it involves Commonwealth nations. They were all part of the British Empire, which touched every corner of the world and nearly every ethnicity. And in both WW1 and WW2, they all fought alongside one another in the armed forces.

But something like that still didn't erode the idea of white superiority and build camaraderie, even though it should've.

 

[OtherGene]

I'd say that not only is prejudice widespread but on the rise too. If the recent EU Referendum in the UK proved anything it's that the majority of people in this country are inward looking xenophobes. And like that little boy in The Sixth Sense says "I see racist people, they don't know they're racist".

 

[Robert Maxwell]

It's especially ironic when it involves Commonwealth nations. They were all part of the British Empire, which touched every corner of the world and nearly every ethnicity. And in both WW1 and WW2, they all fought alongside one another in the armed forces.

But something like that still didn't erode the idea of white superiority and build camaraderie, even though it should've.

Why would it have? The British Empire was built on the idea of British--i.e. white Anglo--superiority. The English in particular have traditionally disdained anyone non-English.

 

[MacLeod]

I'd say that not only is prejudice widespread but on the rise too. If the recent EU Referendum in the UK proved anything it's that the majority of people in this country are inward looking xenophobes. And like that little boy in The Sixth Sense says "I see racist people, they don't know they're racist".

The majority of people in the UK did not vote to leave the UK, however a majority of those who voted, voted to leave the EU. I voted to remain but that doesn't mean I didn't think the EU needed reform, but I'm not wanting to derail this thread into a debate on the EU,but remember in the last EU elections there was a shift towards more eurosceptic parties in many EU countries and this continues even to date with the AfD in Germany, the FN in France. But people can move to be the more extreme parties on either side of the politcal spectrum if they feel their voice(s) aren't being listened to.

 

[Tenacity]

"oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you"

Okay, I call BS on this. I've interacted with a fair number of flight attendants during my time working at airports and it's incredibly difficult to imagine this coming out of a FA's mouth.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

"oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you"

Okay, I call BS on this. I've interacted with a fair number of flight attendants during my time working at airports and it's incredibly difficult to imagine this coming out of a FA's mouth.

Of course the vast majority of flight attendants would never say something like that. But it takes only one jerk for the story to be true.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

"oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you"

Okay, I call BS on this. I've interacted with a fair number of flight attendants during my time working at airports and it's incredibly difficult to imagine this coming out of a FA's mouth.

While I can definitely see it happening -- nothing is beyond the realm of possibility -- every time one of these social media things goes viral I automatically question its veracity. People know nowadays that if they post something on social media about a hotbutton issue, it's likely to get attention.

On the other hand, a medical doctor is not the type to lie about this for attention.

So I guess I'm 70/30 on her side and believing it actually occurred.

 

[In_Correct]

"oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you"

Okay, I call BS on this. I've interacted with a fair number of flight attendants during my time working at airports and it's incredibly difficult to imagine this coming out of a FA's mouth.

While I have not worked at airports, I have been a passenger. It is very believable that a Flight Attendant would say something so bigoted. Because Airlines are not perfect.

 

[ichab]

Wasn't there also recently a video uploaded by a student in Australia who was a racial minority in which he had a conversation with a woman at a bus stop? And this woman was going on and on about how immigrants weren't real Australians and society this, society that...blah blah. So racism is everywhere.

I don't get the fried chicken and watermelon thing either. I'm from Virginia, which is "the south" in the US. It was the capital of the Confederacy in the Civil War, and the home of the first British colony (we are more "historical" than Massachusetts, which gets more attention because of the Thanksgiving story and the Pilgrims, etc) and home to many of the first several US Presidents. Although today a "Blue" state politically for the last few Presidential cycles and likely to be this year too, historically it's been known to be southern, racist, etc. We have a lot of plantations here, and a large Black population.

My white grandfather loved both watermelon and fried chicken. I remember eating watermelon on the porch with him when I was young, and spitting the seeds in the yard. And blacks LOVE them both, too. My best friend is biracial - half black/half-white - and his dad used to go on and on about how to make the perfect fried chicken. Hell, my granny taught me how to make the perfect fried chicken when I was 10 years old. And every summer, you'd be hard-pressed to find any white household in this part of the US that didn't have a watermelon in the fridge. I guess it's the same for Black households. It's just good. It's refreshing to have cold watermelon when it's hot outside.

It's part of the culture of the south, for blacks as well as whites. Comfort food. Viewed CULTURALLY, there is no problem, or shouldn't be. I think the racism part must've come in with cartoons and racist propaganda that appeared in magazines in the early 1900's, showing poor, sharecropper black people with highly-exaggerated features (BLACK skin, big red lips, big noses) munching on watermelon. Somewhere along the line over time, that image took hold as a racist one. I'll need to read up on it to be sure, but I guess that's what happened. EDIT: Yep, I looked it up, and this is exactly what happened.

It's the same with chicken and waffles. It's broadly viewed as "racist." But when I hear someone say that, the first thing I say is "How is it racist? Have you tried chicken and waffles? It's delicious."

It should be something that brings us together...a shared cultural trait, at least in the south. But Jim Crow and years of racist imagery casts a long shadow.

My entire family is from the South and we ALL ate fried chicken and watermelon. I didn't even realize the black connection until a documentary I watched years ago "AMERICAN EATS" stated that deep fat frying came from Africa. To me that's no more controversial than stating where pizza(italy), or tacos(mexico) came from. Most of american food has come from other countries. That's just fact.

I've cut back on the fried chicken due to health reasons(rotisserie now) but watermelon? I'll eat that any day.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

As Nick Kroll (in-character as Fabrice Fabrice) once put it:

"Yeah, black people love fried chicken. Know who else loves fried chicken? Everybody!"

 

[Locutus of Bored]

My entire family is from the South and we ALL ate fried chicken and watermelon. I didn't even realize the black connection until a documentary I watched years ago "AMERICAN EATS" stated that deep fat frying came from Africa. To me that's no more controversial than stating where pizza(italy), or tacos(mexico) came from. Most of american food has come from other countries. That's just fact.

It's not really your job to decide for other people whether something is considered controversial or not. It's controversial because white people have made it a persistent negative racial stereotype against black people for over a century, and continue to do so to this day (see: any number of memes about President Obama). Just because almost everyone enjoys fried chicken and watermelon or Kool-Aid (which is another common one) doesn't mean it can't also be used as an ignorant stereotype. Stereotypes are rarely required to make sense or be intelligent and rational.

"oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you"

Okay, I call BS on this. I've interacted with a fair number of flight attendants during my time working at airports and it's incredibly difficult to imagine this coming out of a FA's mouth.

Well, since she's a verifiable and respected ObGyn doctor who can be looked up online, the story is being reported by multiple reputable news sources (which doesn't automatically make it true, but gives you less reason for concern than some clickbaity blog post), and your anecdotal evidence about flight attendants can be easily contradicted with numerous accounts of flight attendants profiling passengers or saying inappropriate things (which is not to say that the vast majority are not completely professional and polite), unless you have some actual evidence to back that up, why would you disregard her story?

Have you ever heard the old riddle that goes like this?

A father and a son were in a car accident, the father dies and the son is critically injured so he is brought to the emergency room, however, when he gets there the surgeon says, "I can't operate on him, he's my son." How can this be?

The reason that riddle exists was because of sexist thinking that couldn't conceive that the surgeon could be a woman and the boy's mother. The same kind of negative perception exists with black people in the medical field, and she also has to contend with the lingering (but thankfully diminishing now that there are so many female physicians) sexism mentioned above. So unless you've got evidence to the contrary, it's best not to dismiss her claims.

 

[Amaris]

Wasn't there also recently a video uploaded by a student in Australia who was a racial minority in which he had a conversation with a woman at a bus stop? And this woman was going on and on about how immigrants weren't real Australians and society this, society that...blah blah. So racism is everywhere.

I don't get the fried chicken and watermelon thing either. I'm from Virginia, which is "the south" in the US. It was the capital of the Confederacy in the Civil War, and the home of the first British colony (we are more "historical" than Massachusetts, which gets more attention because of the Thanksgiving story and the Pilgrims, etc) and home to many of the first several US Presidents. Although today a "Blue" state politically for the last few Presidential cycles and likely to be this year too, historically it's been known to be southern, racist, etc. We have a lot of plantations here, and a large Black population.

My white grandfather loved both watermelon and fried chicken. I remember eating watermelon on the porch with him when I was young, and spitting the seeds in the yard. And blacks LOVE them both, too. My best friend is biracial - half black/half-white - and his dad used to go on and on about how to make the perfect fried chicken. Hell, my granny taught me how to make the perfect fried chicken when I was 10 years old. And every summer, you'd be hard-pressed to find any white household in this part of the US that didn't have a watermelon in the fridge. I guess it's the same for Black households. It's just good. It's refreshing to have cold watermelon when it's hot outside.

It's part of the culture of the south, for blacks as well as whites. Comfort food. Viewed CULTURALLY, there is no problem, or shouldn't be. I think the racism part must've come in with cartoons and racist propaganda that appeared in magazines in the early 1900's, showing poor, sharecropper black people with highly-exaggerated features (BLACK skin, big red lips, big noses) munching on watermelon. Somewhere along the line over time, that image took hold as a racist one. I'll need to read up on it to be sure, but I guess that's what happened. EDIT: Yep, I looked it up, and this is exactly what happened.

It's the same with chicken and waffles. It's broadly viewed as "racist." But when I hear someone say that, the first thing I say is "How is it racist? Have you tried chicken and waffles? It's delicious."

It should be something that brings us together...a shared cultural trait, at least in the south. But Jim Crow and years of racist imagery casts a long shadow.

Just on a side note here, I'd like to say if I'm ever that way, I would like some fried chicken, because now you've made me hungry for really good fried chicken. ♥