Is Anyone Honestly Impressed By Troi's Overrated Ability?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Defiler-Of-Redshirts, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Morgan Bateson: "I'm listening,"
     
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  2. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Scrambled eggs...
     
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  3. GulBahana

    GulBahana Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I wonder if Gene regretted creating her character after the first season but his wife was connected to her so that's that. The writers always found her difficult to write for. She said she was on the verge of being canned after the first season.
     
  4. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She’s talked about nearly being fired at the end of the first year but wasn’t because Denise left and Gates was.

    They didn’t develop her bridge role well enough. She was just supposed to be sexy and otherworldly and sense things and couple with Riker. Her character got to do a lot over the years, personally and professionally, but that bridge role specifically needed more.
     
  5. bigglesworth

    bigglesworth Commander Red Shirt

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    Many of the characteristics that made Troi an integral part of the crew seemed to be given to Guinan in S2. From that point on, Guinan served as Picard’s confidant or the rest of the crew’s pseudo adviser making Troi’s position even less relevant. My recollection of most of the Troi-centric episodes was a focus on her relationship with her mother or an ill fated romance with the alien of the week.
     
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  6. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, like with the guy who made her age really fast. I knew this one wouldn't last.:D
     
  7. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    ...or that one with the slimy guy negotiating for the rights to the wormhole.
    ...or the deaf guy who gets all of his chorus murdered.
    ...or the guy that was genetically engineered to be arrogant
     
  8. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Uh, should we go through Kirk’s ill-fated alien flirtations?

    Plus, she was fine dating Aaron Conor, Riva, and Devonani Ral over the course of seven years. Conor might have worked.

    Ambassador Alkar was telepathically manipulating her and can’t be taken seriously. The episode was bad and predictable, and her being that character seemed cliche...like something out of a bad Star Trek episode. The one thing I kinda love is the scene in the turbolift when she seduces that hot ensign. Go Deanna
     
  9. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Don't forget about the time when Worf turned into a... whatever and bit her face. To Klingons, it's equivalent to giving an engagement ring! Plus it's a lot cheaper.:guffaw:
     
  10. comics1996

    comics1996 Ensign Red Shirt

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    I think that it would have been better if she was not bending the rules with on-duty uniforms. It would be ok in my mind if she would be dress like she is most of the show off duty.
     
  11. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn’t understand why they didn’t put her in a regular Starfleet uniform early on. They started her off in the cheerleader variant in “Encounter at Farpoint,” (they even put Tasha in one for the last scene only), then a succession of civilian garb. I actually like her outfits, but, I dunno, I wonder if they contributed to her character not being written more seriously. It’s funny that she only wore a regular uniform in “Chain of Command” because Jellico was being a dick, but everyone liked her in one so much that she wore it a lot more after.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  12. saladdays

    saladdays Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. On duty (and especially on the bridge) she should have worn the regular uniform. Off duty anything she wore was fine, and I probably would have been fine if she wore casual outfits during counseling sessions. It's mainly just the bridge that didn't make sense for me. I liked her better on-duty with regular uniforms anyway. It actually became strange to see her wear casual outfits the last season.
     
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  13. bigglesworth

    bigglesworth Commander Red Shirt

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    Maybe in-universe, Troi felt that her rank may intimidate junior officers and crew, so she asked Picard if she could wear “civies” instead of her uniform. That being said, I too liked her better in uniform than the other non-Starfleet outfits.
     
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  14. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've been saying this for years. Adding Guinan undercut her relevance by more than half, & the saddest part is that the show got better because they did it. No one ever seemed comfortable or right confiding in Deanna, LEAST of all Picard, who by & large seemed to think it inappropriate for that to be the role of a subordinate in general. Clearly he didn't have her on that bridge for "heart to hearts"
     
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  15. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Guinan was mysterious and intriguing, but, come on, she always knew exactly what to say and when to say it. She was the Mr. Feeny of Star Trek, and she only worked in short bursts.

    She was fun, but she did undercut a role that Deanna could have filled if Whoopi Goldberg wasn’t such a big fan and wanted in. Deanna did already do some of the mysterious stuff earlier on, when she was exotic and sensuous and had the accent. She seemed like a wizardess, observing the crew, reading them, and occasionally piping on with psychological assistance — i.e. Guinan.
     
  16. Brain Melter

    Brain Melter Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What exactly does Guinan mean when she says that Picard and she are "more than friends"? Normally, when people say that it has only one meaning.
     
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  17. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Maybe the show would have been better had Troi not been a member of Starfleet, maybe just a civilian psychologist and aide to Picard on diplomatic missions?
    Sometimes it felt like her role in Starfleet was forced by the writers. The episode where she passes the bridge officer's exam was a terrible B story.
    Most of the shows that featured her as the main character were not very good. The writers could have tried to develop her character more other than the cliched way they did.
    After the first season, they gave Picard other interests, such as archaeology. Worf started off after season 1 by focusing on Klingon heritage. Data was on the pursuit of trying to be human. Riker was a fun loving, cavalier, trying to get down her pants guy. Beverly enjoyed the theater, even though the writers didn't do a very job of developing her character.
    I don't believe the writers really developed Geordi's character enough
    And they did an even worse job with Troi. They didn't even give Troi any hobbies. The only thing I know about her is that she likes chocolate and was the chick that a guest star occasionally wanted to hook up with. What did she like to do off duty?
    People say Sirtis was not a very good actor. I thought she did fine with what the writers gave her.
     
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  18. Nakita Akita

    Nakita Akita Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They were olde time friends.
    Hundreds of years back she saved his life or he saved hers, one or the other.
    (Cue eerie music)
     
  19. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I found her to be a plot device.

    Worf: Captain an alien ship is approaching.
    Picard: On screen.
    Worf: They are hailing us.
    Troi: Captain, despite what is said, I sense hostile intent.
    Picard: Mr. Worf, raise shields.

    In her counseling sessions she seemed more like an empathetic friend, which is fine if Troi used this to lower people's defenses and build rapport. What is missing is stark evaluations of the crew member she is treating. When they write Troi, she simply confirms for Picard what is already known--three choices in this scenario--lying, not lying and from the future, or psychotic.

    "I sense no deceptive intent in him. He seems to be telling the truth about thinking he killed a million people in the future."

    How about: "I met with AOTW for a very brief time, about twenty minutes. It was clear, in that short time, he was genuine. He vacillated between guilt and anger at the millions of people he believes he kills in thirty years' time and his intent is to prevent the murders from ever happening. He went as far as to say he planned--and went into specifics--about killing his younger self before this atrocity. I had him describe what will take place, and observed his emotions empathically while he talked of this attack and then when he spoke of his plan. Again, no deceptive intent. This doesn't appear to be a psychotic episode, and there's no way to check his story. I recommend he remain the Brig until we can move him to the nearest health facility for further evaluation, before he can stand trial for attacking the Enterprise."

    That's an attempt to use both, for her to shine, and to meet with Picard about a situation, to protect privacy, before Picard opens it up for debate with his senior staff--on the bridge, in the Ready Room, in the Observation Lounge.

    They didn't treat her like anything but a device to move the plot; exposition.

    Again, when it came to their jobs, it was basic. Data was an Enyclopedia with tremendous reflexes and used for brute strength with Worf. Worf was there to show danger and contrast Picard's cooler head. Riker was given Picard's utility lines (courses, Red Alert!) And to play out a scenario where Picard might be in danger. Wesley set the course. Troi was exposition of motivations. Beverly was care. Guinan was Picard's intellectual equal with a different perspective.

    They had a formula with how they related, on the job.
     
  20. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    The shows where I consider her to be the main character
    Haven- she is getting married. A spat with Riker. Her mom shows up.
    The Child- she gets impregnated by a ball of light.
    Loud as a Whisper- Some peace negotiator gets down her pants.
    The Price- some negotiator gets down her pants
    Menage a Troi- possibly the main character. She is trying to rekindle the romance with Riker. Her mom shows up
    The Loss- she loses her emphatic abilities, flips out on the crew.
    Night Terrors- she uses her emphatic abilities to contact an alien who is also trapped in a rift.
    The Masterpiece Society- some head of state gets down her pants.
    Violations- possibly the main character. she gets mind raped by an alien
    Man of the People-some peace negotiator gets down her pants. She is super sexually charged
    Face of the Enemy- she is abducted and an undercover agent
    Dark Page- possibly the main character. Her mom shows up. Her mom is trying to hook her up with an alien
    Eye of the Beholder- she flips out thinking Worf is cheating on her

    All of her episodes except The Loss, Night Terrors, and Face of the Enemy are all relationship or sexually driven stories. It would have been nice to give her something else to do than just be a sexual object throughout most of her episodes. I like Violations a lot and Face of the Enemy was good, but the rest of them were blah at best.

    I forgot Power Play too. That one she was taken over by an alien entity.
     
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