Is Anyone Honestly Impressed By Troi's Overrated Ability?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Defiler-Of-Redshirts, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. Defiler-Of-Redshirts

    Defiler-Of-Redshirts Commander Red Shirt

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    I've noticed that most of these "feelings" she gets are things that any intelligent, perceptive human being could extrapolate on their own. I'm no more psychic/empathic that anybody reading this post....yet I can tell whether or not someone is telling the truth by their verbiage, body language, and by whether or not their story makes logical sense.

    It doesn't take any special alien ability for a regular human being to know whether or not someone else is lying, or to determine what emotion another person is feeling; all it requires is a brain and a talent for observing human behavior, that's it. So other than her wonderfully delicious tour-de-force in "Face of the Enemy" Deanna Troi, while very kind-hearted, was essentially a worthless character.
     
  2. gakelly

    gakelly Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    She was totally useless. Her worse trait was she would draw everything out for drama. "No, he's not..he's not...I know what is really going on...I know what is going on." Just tell us already.
    And telling us that the captain of the other ship is hostile right after the Enterprise is hit by phaser fire isn't that beneficial.
    She doesn't seem to really know anything of substance when it comes to psychology either.
     
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  3. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Her abilities had more use when you couldn’t see the person’s face. When she could sense where people are and how alarmed they felt.

    I don’t think it’s fair to attribute the writers lack of knowledge of psychology to Troi.
     
  4. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I don't know if she was completely useless. She was nosey as all hell, & was pretty good at making people uncomfortable lol.

    Sometimes it's useful to have people be aware that you know what they're feeling/thinking. The minute you say she's an empath, you change the social dynamic, because people know they are being read

    It's literally the ONLY reason I imagine Jellico had her at the negotiating table... as a way of intimidating. Seemed a pretty useful tactic for Nora Satie too
     
  5. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am.

    :cool:

    And so is Data.

    :vulcan:



    :bolian:
     
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  6. Ghrakh

    Ghrakh Captain Captain

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    Exactly, no one in human history has ever been scammed.
     
  7. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    I liked how Troi targeted the Romulan ship in Nemesis. I wish they did more of that kind of thing in the series. It kind of made her like a super-hero which I find more interesting than her having vague feelings like a charlatan.
     
  8. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    I thought they did a good job, in later series, of making Troi an advisor to Picard when he conducts diplomatic missions. It finally made her powers seem useful and practical in a realistic way. If you were negotiating a treaty, who wouldn't want an empath on your side.
     
  9. gakelly

    gakelly Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, then who should we attribute the lack of psychology knowledge to? I mean, she is a psychologist and knows very little about psychology. You would think someone would do a bit of research on the topic just to, kinda, know something about it.
    It would be like me writing a show about doctors or lawyers and not spending anytime to try to learn something about the topic.
     
  10. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be realistic, they know as much about that as they do in writing Crusher's knowledge in her area of medicine
     
  11. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Captain Captain

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    But, it would also look strange if they were quoting today's knowledge about psychology and medicine, anyway. Freud's theories have fallen by the wayside, and it is likely that present day theories will also. That leaves them with the choice of inventing new terminology and technology, which could sound and look silly (like the way they replaced Spock's brain in TOS), or just let it be unspecified and vague.
     
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  12. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    That is essentially the bulk of Troi's episodes, but let's look at "Encounter at Farpoint" and the potential it brought to the table from the very beginning: It's an episode where the aliens are completely non-humanoid. Only Troi could deduce the situation, which saved humanity from the Q. This is the sort of thing they needed Troi doing a bit more often. As well as espionage acts (e.g. "Face of the Enemy", which wasn't perfect but it at least attempted doing something different with her abilities that were supposed to be unique, but in the show were usually nothing more than exposition for kids in the audience who may not have recgonized the facial expressions or other issues at the time - TNG was still deemed a family show, even despite Gene wanting things to be rather different in certain aspects...)
     
  13. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    And her saving the entire ship's complement and crew in "Generations" by landing the already-doomed saucer successfully. She had the training and given an alien attack destroyed the Engineering Section, which exploded too quickly given the limited timeframe involved - as much as some people heckle with the 1950s cliched jokes*, in full context it is clear Troi did nothing wrong as a pilot and, indeed, prevented considerable loss of life via her expert handling in an emergency situation.

    * possibly because it's a cheap shot in a movie that they deemed was cheap and unbecoming - the movie has issues but it's even underrated in my book.

    But she was pegged as a counselor doing largely civilian work on the starship.

    And yet Data was unable to load from his database how many other possible scenarios... :D The trouble is, the scene does not feel like altering character mannerisms for the sake of narrative, as Troi was teaching a variant of "poker face". But there could be maneuvers he might not know, or any old response could be seen as a random act. Or Troi was lucky, how did she know how many patterns Data was aware of and could process in the same timeframe? At least Data is faster than an Atari 2600... ever try playing chess on that? :D Nitpicking aside, it's still a lovely scene. :)
     
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  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She knows the same amount the writers do. Which means, in universe, she knows everything about psychology.

    In the real world she would know nothing about psychology. But she’s not in the real world.
     
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  15. Doom Shepherd

    Doom Shepherd Commodore Commodore

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    If you’re going to attack a character for dragging out explanations into unnecessaryland, how about every character who ever said to the Captain “you’d better get down here.” That phrase exists ONLY for the purposes of drama, and would dump a real officer who said it in the crapper. You’re an officer. Reporting to the Captain is what you DO.
     
  16. marlboro

    marlboro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She was pretty useless, imo. I think she would have worked better as a recurring guest star than as a constant presence on the bridge.

    Guinan was much as a "counselor" than she was, I think. And, even if she couldn't help you, she could at least get you drunk.
     
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  17. saladdays

    saladdays Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think her character was useless, but she definitely wasn't utilized very well most of the time. She unfortunately got relegated to mostly negotiations and other contacts with alien species, and probably not even used to her fullest in those situations.

    As far as her expertise in psychology (or lack thereof), I don't think for a TV show like TNG you can forgive things like that because it isn't the focus of the show. I do think the character probably relied on her empathic abilities too much when it comes to actually being a counselor, and I think that was shown in the episode where she temporarily loses her abilities.
     
  18. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    People always criticize her actions on bridge, but she didnt always make the best psychotherapist either. When Barclay was telling her about his fear of transporters and why, she's like "you're right! It's true! You really are being taken apart molecule by molecule!"
     
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  20. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Lack of training and education?

    Beverly Crusher is referred to as both doctor and by her rank. Troi is referred to as counselor and by her rank. I can't remember a single time Troi being call doctor.

    Which could suggest that she isn't one in her field. She is allowed to counsel people based on her Betazed empathic ability and not because she's holds a Ph'd degree in psychology.
    It might have been due to the damage the ship took in battle, but Troi didn't exactly set the Enterprise "down like a feather." It wasn't a successful landing, it was a crash.