Iron Fist (Marvel/Netflix)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Skywalker, Feb 26, 2016.

  1. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Regarding Elektra, her personality is quite similar to the one in The Man Without Fear (miniseries) by Frank Miller from the early 90s. I agree it's different from her original storyline but even Miller changed things up. It's not my preference, but I can't fault them for going with that version considering it's extremely influential throughout season one.
     
  2. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't even count Frank Miller's versions of the characters, since I don't like most of his work even before he went full nutjob (by the early 90s he was at least half out of his mind, but not as bad as he'd eventually get). But I do know that the mainstream Marvel Comics version of Elektra, besides actually being a greek woman who didn't have a backstory remotely like the Netflix version, also has never acted like the Netflix version. I'm not saying that, say, Jennifer Gardner's Elektra was better, even though she had the actual character's backstory. She didn't have enough of an edge in my opinion, and was pretty bland.

    But, even ignoring specific backstory (which I would have looked past if I liked their version of the character), Netflix made Elektra much more of a violent psychopath then she actually is, to the point where she seems to be more like Colin Farrell's Bullseye from the Daredevil movie (when it comes to personality) then she is Elektra. I'm glad I didn't get to her, but it was actually hearing about the character online, combined with my intense hatred of Season 2 Foggy Nelson and the crybaby Punisher, that made me decide to stop watching Daredevil Season 2. Its not like I'm even close to Elektra's #1 fan, but after enjoying nothing (outside of Charlie Cox as Daredevil) in the episodes of Season 2 I sat through, Elektra was the last straw. If they got her right, I'd have kept going (like how David Tennant kept me watching Jessica Jones) because I still like the actual character of Daredevil in his show. But, with her getting botched, Matt Murdoch by himself wasn't enough to make me sit through all the stuff I was hating.
     
  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, talk about a lack of empathy. Frank's entire family was murdered, I think that gives him to right to cry. I'd take a character lick that, who shows a realistic reaction to what happened, over an emtionless killing machine, even if it isn't true to the comics.
    I still say Jon Bernthal deserved an Emmy for the cemetery scene alone.
     
  4. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    What the hell? The three most important appearances of Elektra are the original Frank Miller run, The Man Without Fear, and Elektra: Assassin. If you're not counting Frank Miller, what exactly are you even counting? You're talking about her origin, which, to my knowledge, was only shown during Miller's time writing the character. On top of that, you're ignoring character development of the character if you're only pointing to post-Miller Elektra.

    The Man Without Fear version has two elements the show drew from: One is that Elektra was watched by the Chaste from the beginning and considered for recruitment around the same time as Matt was. It developed in a different way, but it's directly drawn from that (while, iirc, the original version had her rejected from the Chaste and she ended up trying to infiltrate the Hand to subvert it and failing). Second, there's the fact that she is a thrill seeker and violent killer. She explicitly referred to the demons in her head and reveled in the chaos she caused.
     
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  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    I always find it odd when someone totally dismisses the work of the artist/writer who created the character.
     
  6. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As far as I'm concerned, post-Miller is the mainstream Elektra. The vast majority of her character development has happened in the decades (and hundreds if not thousands of appearances) she's been around since Miller. She doesn't love killing. Honestly her motivations for killing were never great, but being a violent psychopath was never her thing. She isn't crazy, and doesn't get off on murder.

    She's obviously somewhat casual about it since she did make it her profession (although she's leaned a bit more Anti-Hero then assassin for a long time), but I've never seen the character to randomly kill because it "gives her a rush". For payment? yes. For revenge? Yes. To accomplish some task? Yeah. because it makes her blood rush or thinks its fun? No, not in any version of her I've read in the main universe. That's what a Batman villain would have as motivation (like Victor Zsaz, for example).

    Oh, Frank can have emotions. The "cold, emotionless, no personality Punisher" was tried with that mediocre Punisher: Warzone film. I think they got the character right in the Thomas Jane film, which I really like but know has a mixed reputation. Basically, Punisher can be a compelling character and have emotional moments without 90% of his non-killing scenes being him whining and crying. The Daredevil Punisher was a whiny idiot. The character needs a bit of an edge and a backbone, not just go around shooting people between bouts of sobbing.

    The Thomas Jane film got the character perfectly, with the character being somewhere between the overly emotional Netflix idiot and the boring Warzone robot. That said, I'd take Warzone Punisher, or even Dolph Lundgren's Punisher, over Daredevil's version. He was just pathetic. He was impossible to take seriously because he was always about five seconds from bursting into tears. It didn't help that the writing for every character in DD Season 2 was terrible, but having Punisher crying while monologuing to some tied up hero on a roof was not something Punisher would do. Jon Bernthal doesn't deserve an emmy for anything regardless, the writing was irredeemable but he certainly wasn't doing anything to make it better. I don't even remember a cemetary scene (it might have been after I stopped watching, although I've tried to forget the horrible Netflix Punisher), but i can already say that the Thomas Jane movie did emotion better then it, or anything else in that garbage show.

    Even when the writer is Frank Miller, a guy who is one of the biggest racist, misogynistic, etc a-holes in mainstream comics nowadays? The guy who wrote stuff like All Star Batman & Robin, The Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Holy Terror? That's the guy whose work is supposed to be taken into account? Even in the period before the guy completely lost his mind his mind I don't think too highly of his work, but as he's devolved some of his tropes he uses nowadays are more obvious in his older work. The guy has never written female characters well, and I don't count Elektra as an exception. He may have had some interesting ideas, but he's about the last person whose opinion I care about on Daredevil and Elektra. The only thing less valid is his current opinion on Batman.

    Characters grow over time, even superheroes. The mainstream Elektra has been shaped by dozens of writers, at least, since Miller wrote the character. I take that development into account more then just her early stuff with Miller. Using just the early stuff is like judging Batman by the standards of the first few stories where he liked to shoot people. That said, even in her first stories I don't think Miller wrote her as a violent psycopath who killed because she really liked it, although its not like I go back and read Frank Miller stories.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  7. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wrong thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  9. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Uhm.. you have realized this is the Iron Fist thread and not Daredevil season 2?

    That said from what i heard/read is that Iron Fist will be central to "The War" storyline as his character is meant to be the champion of the good guys who's trained to fight The Hand.. how much of that will be actually in the show nobody knows so far but i'm ready for some awesome Kung Fu action :techman:
     
  10. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    I think you meant to post your review in this thread.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    We've got titles and directors for most of the episodes.

    Episode 1: "Snow Gives Way" (directed by John Dahl)
    Episode 2: "Shadow Hawk Takes Flight" (directed by John Dahl)
    Episode 3: "Rolling Thunder Cannon Punch" (directed by Tom Shankland)
    Episode 4: "Eight Diagram Dragon Palm" (director currently unknown)
    Episode 5: "Under Leaf Pluck Lotus" (directed by Uta Briesewitz)
    Episode 6: "Immortal Emerges from Cave" (director currently unknown)
    Episode 7: "Felling with Tree Routes" (directed by Farren Blackburn)
    Episode 8: "The Blessing of Many Fractures" (directed by Kevin Tancharoen)
    Episode 9: "The Mistress of All Agonies" (directed by Jet Wilkinson)
    Episode 10: title to be announced (director currently unknown)
    Episode 11: "Lead Horse Back to Stable" (directed by Deborah Chow)
    Episode 12: title to be announced (director currently unknown)
    Episode 13: "Dragon Plays with Fire" (directed by Stephen Surjik)
     
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  13. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't feel like searching for it confirmation right now, but I believe at least one or two of the episodes that don't have directors in Skywalker's list will be directed by rapper RZA. A few years back he directed a martial arts movie called, ironically, The Man With The Iron Fists, so he does have experience with these kinds of things.
     
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  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Yes.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Huh, interesting. I just looked it up, and so far I can only find evidence that he directed episode six, "Immortal Emerges from Cave." Pretty cool, still.
     
  17. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hope this guy knocks it out of the park because he just doesn't look right for the part to me.
     
  18. ITL

    ITL Vice Admiral Admiral

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  19. tenmei

    tenmei Commodore Commodore

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    So excited about this - so glad I've got the Friday and Monday booked off work to fit it all in, and get to see Beauty and the Beast at the cinema.
     
  20. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This looks great.
    It looks like we will be getting the Asian lady gang leader, (Madam Gao?) as at least one of the villains.
    I need to try to finish up Luke Cage before I start this one.