Indiana Jones 5. It's official.

[HIjol]

Don't forget, we Boomers are getting to the point of filling out our paperwork for the Federation Rest Home and Holo-Suite Resort (or the Federation Funny Farm!) and we want to see people our age leaping over chasms and fending off hoards of angry natives and doing gymnastic routines in troop trucks...(but not discovering alien skulls that connect with the cosmos)...we need our action fix!

Plus, pulling hearts out of chests (transplanting)...

AARP® approved this Post.

(not really)

 

[Turtletrekker]

AARP® approved this Post.

"Raiders of the Lost AARP".

 

[HIjol]

"Raiders of the Lost AARP".

 

[Locutus of Bored]

One of the ideas I've always had floating around in my head is to have one of the secondary reasons for Alexander the Great's eastward expansion be that upon ascending the Macedonian throne he came into possession of Pandora's "Box" (actually a jar in the correct translation), and afraid of the evils it could unleash upon the Greek world, he decided to take it to the furthest reaches of the globe and bury it where no one could find it. When his troops tired of campaigning and wanted to turn back in what is now northern India, Alexander dispatched a trusted group of his elite soldiers to continue on until they reached the ends of the Earth, and dispose of it there.

Which brings us to 1968 and Indy, now mostly settled down from his more adventurous days and content to be an academic and family man who occasionally does some normal field work. Besides his son, he has an eleven year old daughter with Marian (the daughter from the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles) who helps him out on digs and as an assistant so she can learn the ropes.

Jones hears about artifacts pointing to the existence of Pandora from his adoptive son and protege Short Round shortly before he's kidnapped by the Soviets, and takes his story to an old friend in the CIA, since the location is in wartorn Vietnam. They ask him to try and retrieve it for them, saying the Russians can't be allowed to get it first. Unfortunately, little does Indy know, but his trip will coincide with the Tet Offensive. So he has to evade death or capture in the middle of an invasion, rescue Short Round (who hates being called that since he's in his 40s now), and prevent the Russians from gaining possession of Pandora and its secrets.

Options could be created for either Henry/Mutt, the older Short Round, or the daughter to have their own spin-offs at various times in the past.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Star War: TFA could also be considered to be a Harrison Ford vehicle, but yet he essentially passed the torch to a younger cast. Just saying don't put it past Disney to try to get young indy in there somehow. If they want to establish a franchise ford can only really be in one of these films.

Only if you ignore the fact that he was barely in half the movie, that there were three different new characters clearly more important than him to the story and that he was only one of three returning characters who were all marketed together as a group in a 'return of the originals' kind of deal.

Not to mention, Star Wars is in an easy position to pass the torch to a younger generation. It's all about that universe as a whole, not any one particular character. Indiana Jones is more complicated, which is exactly why you're suggesting that it has to be young Indiana Jones himself, and not some new character that might share his name.

And I get why you would think that, but at the same time, imo, trying to throw in flashbacks as a way to jumpstart a new Indy franchise would probably be more dangerous than just doing a straight reboot. Yeah, sure, putting Ford on the poster will get it more attention, but the name Indiana Jones would get people's attention anyway. Meanwhile, if a contrived flashback story fails to gel properly because the new Indy doesn't get enough time for the audience to get to know him, or even worse, if the flashbacks weigh the movie down and get in the way of Harrison Ford's last hurrah as the character he originated, the entire strategy would backfire hugely.

You're talking about a 'passing the torch' movie in which the characters who are supposed to be passing the torch can't ever even share a scene together, can't work together on one story/problem, and basically have to be constantly balanced against each other while trying to create a single coherent storyline that spans an entire lifetime and both wraps up Harrison Ford's time in a satisfying way and sets up 'new' adventures for the new Indy in his past. That's a recipe for disaster.

If they think they can find someone who will be believable as a new version of Indiana Jones himself, then they honestly would be better off just letting him be Indiana Jones, with no involvement from Ford whatsoever. Cast the right person and tell a good story, and it will be perfectly fine.

 

[Phoenix219]

One of the ideas I've always had floating around in my head is to have one of the secondary reasons for Alexander the Great's eastward expansion be that upon ascending the Macedonian throne he came into possession of Pandora's "Box" (actually a jar in the correct translation), and afraid of the evils it could unleash upon the Greek world, he decided to take it to the furthest reaches of the globe and bury it where no one could find it. When his troops tired of campaigning and wanted to turn back in what is now northern India, Alexander dispatched a trusted group of his elite soldiers to continue on until they reached the ends of the Earth, and dispose of it there.

Which brings us to 1968 and Indy, now mostly settled down from his more adventurous days and content to be an academic and family man who occasionally does some normal field work. Besides his son, he has an eleven year old daughter with Marian (the daughter from the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles) who helps him out on digs and as an assistant so she can learn the ropes.

Jones hears about artifacts pointing to the existence of Pandora from his adoptive son and protege Short Round shortly before he's kidnapped by the Soviets, and takes his story to an old friend in the CIA, since the location is in wartorn Vietnam. They ask him to try and retrieve it for them, saying the Russians can't be allowed to get it first. Unfortunately, little does Indy know, but his trip will coincide with the Tet Offensive. So he has to evade death or capture in the middle of an invasion, rescue Short Round (who hates being called that since he's in his 40s now), and prevent the Russians from gaining possession of Pandora and its secrets.

Options could be created for either Henry/Mutt, the older Short Round, or the daughter to have their own spin-offs at various times in the past.

Does Indy get a daughter named Lara?

 

[Owain Taggart]

And re record all those book ends. And voice an animated series to finish out the stories.

Yeah, why isn't there an Indy animated series? There's a series based on practically everything else under the sun. It would be one way to continue to have stories without Indy getting old.

 

[Captain Craig]

I'm a fan of all 4 films. I admit that KOtCS had some problems and there are sequences I'd look at doing differently and re-casting Mutt (also, not using that name) are ones I'd take. However, overall as a film it was entertaining and enjoyable. People suddenly became great defenders of physics in film, within this series, when that whole "Fridge" scene happened.

• Cause outrunning that Boulder in Raiders was realistic.
• Swimming in open ocean to a sub was sure going to happen that fast.
• Falling 10K feet from a plane on a blow up raft is plausible.
• A mine cart jumping the tracks and landing back on the tracks....totally 100% realistic.
• Wings knock off your plane and you glide through a tunnel without it exploding, sure.

Then there is the "issue" with aliens people gripe and moan about. Indy is agnostic despite Jones Sr. and it's all the same to him.

• A golden box with the fire of God/god that has the angel of death.
• Mystic stones with glowing diamonds that restore the floral and vegetation to the land.
• A cup that gives everlasting life.

It's ALL equally ALIEN to Indy. As he told Brody, "You know I don't buy into that mumbo-jumbo". Just because some viewers might be emotionally attached and it therefore makes it more believable to them doesn't mean it is to Indy.

I'm all for this new film. Age be damned. My High School history/Latin teacher is in his mid-60's and still works out. Last I knew a few years ago he was still benching close to 200 lbs and I wouldn't want to take a punch from him. Old...it isn't uniform on the perceived limitations so I'm ready to believe in an adventuring Indy in his next journey.

 

[JD]

Only if you ignore the fact that he was barely in half the movie, that there were three different new characters clearly more important than him to the story and that he was only one of three returning characters who were all marketed together as a group in a 'return of the originals' kind of deal.

Not to mention, Star Wars is in an easy position to pass the torch to a younger generation. It's all about that universe as a whole, not any one particular character. Indiana Jones is more complicated, which is exactly why you're suggesting that it has to be young Indiana Jones himself, and not some new character that might share his name.

And I get why you would think that, but at the same time, imo, trying to throw in flashbacks as a way to jumpstart a new Indy franchise would probably be more dangerous than just doing a straight reboot. Yeah, sure, putting Ford on the poster will get it more attention, but the name Indiana Jones would get people's attention anyway. Meanwhile, if a contrived flashback story fails to gel properly because the new Indy doesn't get enough time for the audience to get to know him, or even worse, if the flashbacks weigh the movie down and get in the way of Harrison Ford's last hurrah as the character he originated, the entire strategy would backfire hugely.

You're talking about a 'passing the torch' movie in which the characters who are supposed to be passing the torch can't ever even share a scene together, can't work together on one story/problem, and basically have to be constantly balanced against each other while trying to create a single coherent storyline that spans an entire lifetime and both wraps up Harrison Ford's time in a satisfying way and sets up 'new' adventures for the new Indy in his past. That's a recipe for disaster.

If they think they can find someone who will be believable as a new version of Indiana Jones himself, then they honestly would be better off just letting him be Indiana Jones, with no involvement from Ford whatsoever. Cast the right person and tell a good story, and it will be perfectly fine.

This is pretty similar to how I feel. My biggest issue with splitting a new movie between Ford and a young Indy is it either makes Ford's appearance feel like a pointless gimmick, or it distracts from the new Indy.
If you are going to go to the trouble of bring Ford back as Indy, then actually let him take part in the story as Indiana Jones, not just a narrator. Sure he might not be able to do the big action scenes, but even at his age he could probably at least still do a bit fighting and use the whip.

 

[Samurai8472]

And re record all those book ends. And voice an animated series to finish out the stories.

Make it so

 

[davejames]

I'm a fan of all 4 films. I admit that KOtCS had some problems and there are sequences I'd look at doing differently and re-casting Mutt (also, not using that name) are ones I'd take. However, overall as a film it was entertaining and enjoyable. People suddenly became great defenders of physics in film, within this series, when that whole "Fridge" scene happened.

• Cause outrunning that Boulder in Raiders was realistic.
• Swimming in open ocean to a sub was sure going to happen that fast.
• Falling 10K feet from a plane on a blow up raft is plausible.
• A mine cart jumping the tracks and landing back on the tracks....totally 100% realistic.
• Wings knock off your plane and you glide through a tunnel without it exploding, sure.

Then there is the "issue" with aliens people gripe and moan about. Indy is agnostic despite Jones Sr. and it's all the same to him.

• A golden box with the fire of God/god that has the angel of death.
• Mystic stones with glowing diamonds that restore the floral and vegetation to the land.
• A cup that gives everlasting life.

It's ALL equally ALIEN to Indy. As he told Brody, "You know I don't buy into that mumbo-jumbo". Just because some viewers might be emotionally attached and it therefore makes it more believable to them doesn't mean it is to Indy.

I'm all for this new film. Age be damned. My High School history/Latin teacher is in his mid-60's and still works out. Last I knew a few years ago he was still benching close to 200 lbs and I wouldn't want to take a punch from him. Old...it isn't uniform on the perceived limitations so I'm ready to believe in an adventuring Indy in his next journey.

It's not so much about "realism" or how fantastic those events might all appear to Indy, but more about what seems to naturally fit within his world.

We had three movies that firmly established Indy as someone who chased after ancient religious artifacts of one kind or another (artifacts that you could actually buy as existing somewhere in the world), and now suddenly he's involved in the world of aliens and spaceships and New Age crystal skulls that look more overtly alien than anything actually discovered?

If Indy had actually been beamed up to a spaceship or visited an alien planet at the end, I don't think it would have felt any less ridiculous or out of character that what we saw.

 

[tomalak301]

With all this talk about old Indy and stuff, I wish someone would do a Indiana Jones Beyond series or something. Honestly, I'm thinking about this idea because I loved Batman Beyond (The animated series) and would love someone to take that idea and run with it. You can have Ford by like Uncle Indy or something teaching someone younger how to crack a whip.

 

[Kor]

In the 1930s, Indy was a treasure-hunting hero from some bad 1930s Saturday afternoon matinee serial.

In the 1950s, he was a treasure-hunting hero from some bad 1950s B movie, along with all that entailed.

I really don't see the problem here.

Kor

 

[davejames]

Except that Raiders and Last Crusade (and even TOD in my opinion) were so much better than those old matinee serials, and actually worked hard to ground their stories in a fairly gritty and believable world.

KOTC doesn't try to do that nearly as much, and is basically just as cheesy, cartoonish, and unbelievable as the 50s B movies themselves.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I think the biggest question is can they actually come up with another good relic/maguffin for Indy to find? The two that always seem to come up the most are Atlantis and Noah's Ark, but frankly they've always sounded pretty lame to me. And they also seem to be lacking the kind of real religious power and significance that the Ark of the Covenant and Holy Grail both had (or heck, even the Sankara Stones with their mysterious dark power).

Or who knows, maybe the best approach is to do what TOD did, and have Indy basically get sucked into an adventure by accident, where he has to rescue a bunch of people or something and the relic is almost incidental to the story.

Does Indiana Jones have to be about those things you've mentioned? Could Indiana Jones be something else? I've never cared about the relics or macguffin but how the adventure was laid out. KOTCS didn't have any gun fights or stunts I loved in the trilogy, the cg doesn't bother me as long it's used appropriately.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Except that Raiders and Last Crusade (and even TOD in my opinion) were so much better than those old matinee serials, and actually worked hard to ground their stories in a fairly gritty and believable world.

KOTC doesn't try to do that nearly as much, and is basically just as cheesy, cartoonish, and unbelievable as the 50s B movies themselves.

B movies of the 50's was about the fear of the atomic age, and the effects of that; but KOTCS never embraces that genre at all. I was expecting monsters and women screaming at the camera from those entities. It felt like a best of Disney ride where scenes were pillaged from the trilogy.
This is not Lucas, that is more Spielberg who's a fan of old Hollywood, and even a fan admittedly to his own work such as Raiders.

 

[Hugo Rune]

There was a huge problem in its script in that Indy gets hypnotized halfway through with a motivation to return the skull to its throne room, rather than simply cutting and running at the earliest opportunity. "Because two of our heroes have been mind-controlled into finishing the mission" is not any kind of compelling or root-worthy motivation.

Yup. And that is a story beat issue.

The script isn't very good by Koepp, filled with many poor line choices and general sillyness. However, he works with the story that is supplied to him. And Lucas has the story credit (with Jeff Nathanson). In some cases this can simply be a production company buying the germ of an idea and crediting its author accordingly with a story credit. In others it can be a full story structure, which was then either fleshed out and screenplayed, or a full script that is re-written by another person, but all (or parts of) the original story remain. I do not know, but I do recall after the film came out that Spielberg complained that he did not like the story, and that Lucas had complete control and "broke" it (http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-talks-indiana-jones-kingdom-crystal-skull-story/). Lucas hence likely created the structural story problem that Koepp had to work with.

I'm not defending Koepp as, frankly, I am not a great fan of his work since 1996, but the problem with KOCS lies with the story that Lucas wanted told. Screenwriter has to follow the bosses needs and can't fix a story that is locked in by said boss.

Hugo - What exactly am I being accused of other than surviving a nuclear explosion?

 

[Phoenix219]

Yeah, why isn't there an Indy animated series? There's a series based on practically everything else under the sun. It would be one way to continue to have stories without Indy getting old.

Yup, and Ford will always sound the same, no matter how old he is. He could voice the character no problem, with no issues doing stunts, or unbelelievably complicated set pieces. This could be used for almost any era.... from what I hear, there was an entire season of unfilmed Young Indy adventures.

Its time.... before its too late.

I always thought that an animated series made the most sense for a lot of the classic series - I was really hoping for another animated Ghostbusters before the main cast died, and I always knew it was the only way to really get the TOS cast back together one last time. Both of those boats have sailed (Ramis, Nimoy) but its not too late for Indy - or for Back to the Future. (what Parkinsons?)

 

[Phoenix219]

I'm a fan of all 4 films. I admit that KOtCS had some problems and there are sequences I'd look at doing differently and re-casting Mutt (also, not using that name) are ones I'd take. However, overall as a film it was entertaining and enjoyable. People suddenly became great defenders of physics in film, within this series, when that whole "Fridge" scene happened.

• Cause outrunning that Boulder in Raiders was realistic.
• Swimming in open ocean to a sub was sure going to happen that fast.
• Falling 10K feet from a plane on a blow up raft is plausible.
• A mine cart jumping the tracks and landing back on the tracks....totally 100% realistic.
• Wings knock off your plane and you glide through a tunnel without it exploding, sure.

Then there is the "issue" with aliens people gripe and moan about. Indy is agnostic despite Jones Sr. and it's all the same to him.

• A golden box with the fire of God/god that has the angel of death.
• Mystic stones with glowing diamonds that restore the floral and vegetation to the land.
• A cup that gives everlasting life.

It's ALL equally ALIEN to Indy. As he told Brody, "You know I don't buy into that mumbo-jumbo". Just because some viewers might be emotionally attached and it therefore makes it more believable to them doesn't mean it is to Indy.

I'm all for this new film. Age be damned. My High School history/Latin teacher is in his mid-60's and still works out. Last I knew a few years ago he was still benching close to 200 lbs and I wouldn't want to take a punch from him. Old...it isn't uniform on the perceived limitations so I'm ready to believe in an adventuring Indy in his next journey.

I couldn't have said it better myself!!! It all made sense to me. Between the 30s and the 50s, there was a shift in tone; mysticism and spirtiualism gave way to the fantasies of science in the nuclear age. All the ancient aliens books and theories (Sitchin, etc) were making waves. That thin line between magic and tech, gods and aliens.... i had no problem with the aliens/interdimensional travelers; the Nazi's were after magic, the Russians after science/tech, but the results were the same... Indy was out of his element in a later decade... it hit most of the right notes to me, anyways.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yup. And that is a story beat issue.

The script isn't very good by Koepp, filled with many poor line choices and general sillyness. However, he works with the story that is supplied to him. And Lucas has the story credit (with Jeff Nathanson). In some cases this can simply be a production company buying the germ of an idea and crediting its author accordingly with a story credit. In others it can be a full story structure, which was then either fleshed out and screenplayed, or a full script that is re-written by another person, but all (or parts of) the original story remain. I do not know, but I do recall after the film came out that Spielberg complained that he did not like the story, and that Lucas had complete control and "broke" it (http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielberg-talks-indiana-jones-kingdom-crystal-skull-story/). Lucas hence likely created the structural story problem that Koepp had to work with.

I'm not defending Koepp as, frankly, I am not a great fan of his work since 1996, but the problem with KOCS lies with the story that Lucas wanted told. Screenwriter has to follow the bosses needs and can't fix a story that is locked in by said boss.

Hugo - What exactly am I being accused of other than surviving a nuclear explosion?

Well what do you guys think of the pacing and story structure in this one?


http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/multimedia/cityofthegods.pdf

Can't say enough how impressed I am with it.