imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 years

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Avatar is on the list? ROTS better than the other Star Wars movies? One of the overrated LOTR movies at the top? That list fails.

Um...did you miss the "of the last twenty years" part?

Yeah, but it's a dumb stipulation. Why not do the top 20 of all time? That would be far more interesting and they wouldn't have to include sucky movies out of sheer desperation.

Plus Trek XI definitely should have been higher than ROTS.

 

[Harvey]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Dark City should have been there, since Matrix is based on it. Avatar should be ranked lower, since although it was successful at the box office it was predictable and mediocre as a story. I would have liked to see Armageddon in there since it is funny and very well done.

DARK CITY deals with a lot of the same ideas as THE MATRIX, and in my opinion does a far better job with them, but one was hardly based upon the other. They were both filmed at FOX Studios in Sydney, though.

 

[Python Trek]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Avatar is on the list? ROTS better than the other Star Wars movies? One of the overrated LOTR movies at the top? That list fails.

Um...did you miss the "of the last twenty years" part?

Yeah, but it's a dumb stipulation. Why not do the top 20 of all time? That would be far more interesting and they wouldn't have to include sucky movies out of sheer desperation.

Plus Trek XI definitely should have been higher than ROTS.

Trek 11 was bad. ROTS was bad. Just about equally bad, I'd say.

 

[label]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Trek 11 was bad.

You're opinion on this movie is clearly in the minority both from a critical and popular perspective. It may have not been "your fathers" thinking man Trek and certainly had an occasional misstep , but overall it was an overwhelming success no matter which way you slice it. I felt it deserved to be in the top 10 of the list, personally.

ROTS was bad. Just about equally bad, I'd say.

It was the "least" bad out of the Star Wars prequels and actually showed a few signs of promise here and there even if it did eventually succumb to horrible acting by most of the cast, wooden dialog and horrendous directing.

As for movies I would have put there; I agree with replacing Wall-E (overrated "Green" movie) for The Incredibles. I agree with some who liked Minority Report. It was flawed, but it raised some interesting thoughts, had some good action and a very poignant final act.

I also agree that Avatar is way overrated. It deserves to be 19 or 20 in that list and only because of the incredible visuals/action sequences. I definitely agree with Fellowship being number 1 and the only movie I really question being in the top 20 was the Fifth element which I thought was quirky and interesting, but ultimately not really much going on.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I agree with some who liked Minority Report. It was flawed, but it raised some interesting thoughts, had some good action and a very poignant final act.

I don't know how Spielberg convinced people that it was even this good. The final act was a mess of double-takes, and the film only paid lip-service to the idea of predestination. It would be like me saying that I, Robot (a far better film) deserves to be listed here.

 

[Neroon]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

here

Well, as for number one, i actually like it better than the third in the trilogy, the powerful scenes were more powerful, so I agree with them.

As for the rest, I basically agree.

Thoughts?

I'm pretty much in line with that thinking. I used to list ROTK as my favorite movie of all time, but anymore I simply say "The Lord of the Rings" as the trilogy really is one, big movie. Still, if forced to pick only one of those as the top, I'd probably go with FOTR, even though ROTK still contains my two favorite musical cues. So yeah... I've got no problem with #1, nor for that matter the rest of the list.

I do tend to feel that "Avatar" may be a bit too highly ranked... but even there it's difficult to argue with its success and popular appeal. It simply is responsible for the onslaught of films in 3D - however good or bad that may be. That's what I call important and influential!

"Star Trek 2009" I do think is definitely overrated, even allowing for a difference in personal taste. It wasn't particularly influential. Its special effects, though quality stuff weren't groundbreaking. The one area wherein it might be making points is in importance. Even so, that is tied more to a single franchise as opposed to moviedom as a whole.

Pleasant surprise to see "Pan's Labyrinth" on the list, deservedly so. Visually lyrical and captivating, if a bit violent in spots.

My biggest disappointment? No "Toy Story". I cannot understand how that could be left of the list of the top SFF films of the past 20 years. That first film of its trilogy is responsible for launching one of the most successful and influential movie-making companies ever. It's odd that there couldn't be one place found for it. Especially if "Independence Day" is on it?!?

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Their explanation of "top" does include popularity (although, how many people have actually seen UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD -- their number 5 pick?) among other factors, and they don't claim they mean "best".

I have. Interesting if ponderous flick - but then Wenders films are generally as much mood pieces as narratives.

What an odd list - the occasional really interesting artsy movie (Moon, Until the End ..., Pan's Labyrinth) mixed with a host of schloky, mindless crowd pleasers (Trek 11, Avatar, T2) - I suppose it gets points for pulling from a broad range that shows the flexibility of the genre.

 

[label]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I don't know how Spielberg convinced people that it was even this good. The final act was a mess of double-takes, and the film only paid lip-service to the idea of predestination. It would be like me saying that I, Robot (a far better film) deserves to be listed here.

I dunno. I liked I, Robot ok, though not as much as Minority Report. I guess the best way I can rationalize it, is that I have children myself and I could very, very closely identify what it would have been like to lose a child like that, what it would do to a person and a marriage and how that storyline was resolved in the end for me was very moving, if only on a emotional level.

I realize it's not a perfect story and that the final act of the mystery aspect of the show wasn't handled nearly as well as it was set up early in the movie. All in all, I guess the questions that the movie ponders early on, the action and what Cruise's character goes through (his loss, his marriage, etc) were compelling enough for me to enjoy.

 

[label]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

"Star Trek 2009" I do think is definitely overrated, even allowing for a difference in personal taste. It wasn't particularly influential. Its special effects, though quality stuff weren't groundbreaking. The one area wherein it might be making points is in importance.

It may not have broken any new ground where effects or movies in general had gone before, but what it did do was something that is nothing short of miraculous. It took a huge franchise that had been milked drier than I thought possible - so much so that die hard fans like myself were burnt out on Trek - and breathed a whole new life into it. It took a set of established characters with established histories and a fan base 40 years old and not only got most of them back on board, but hooked a whole new generation of fans and did so in such a way that they can tell all new stories, with all new consequences/deaths possible and do so in a way that doesn't cast the first 10 movies by the wayside as meaningless.

It made Trek relevant and exciting again and even more impressively, did so in a "reboot" movie. For my money, that's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

 

[T'Baio]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Minority Report is one of the worst films ever.

Care to list your reasons? I thought it was a decent piece of science fiction with an unfortunate title.

Well let's see.

almost everything!
1. There is an experimental police force that would stop murders before they happen. The idea of arresting someone for "future murder" is stupid. What is really happening is actually attempted murder, but the writers come up with future murder to make it sound more profound. As for the the ball dropping on the floor, to accept the premise of the film which means that even though the guy caught the ball, you can still charge him for damage to the floor that didn't happen. The people didn't actually kill anyone! The people they are accused of murdering are not dead.

Shall I go on? How about stupid Naked Gun-esque scenes where Cruise winds up in a Yoga class. Or killer plants that move? Or ladies that explain the plot? Or the fact that all Cruise needs to do is leave town and not come back until after the murder is supposed to occur?

shall I go on?

So by worst films ever, you mean you just didn't accept the premise.

I mean, I have my problems with Minority Report, for sure...but one of the worse films ever? Please...

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Care to list your reasons? I thought it was a decent piece of science fiction with an unfortunate title.

Well let's see.

almost everything!
1. There is an experimental police force that would stop murders before they happen. The idea of arresting someone for "future murder" is stupid. What is really happening is actually attempted murder, but the writers come up with future murder to make it sound more profound. As for the the ball dropping on the floor, to accept the premise of the film which means that even though the guy caught the ball, you can still charge him for damage to the floor that didn't happen. The people didn't actually kill anyone! The people they are accused of murdering are not dead.

Shall I go on? How about stupid Naked Gun-esque scenes where Cruise winds up in a Yoga class. Or killer plants that move? Or ladies that explain the plot? Or the fact that all Cruise needs to do is leave town and not come back until after the murder is supposed to occur?

shall I go on?

So by worst films ever, you mean you just didn't accept the premise.

I mean, I have my problems with Minority Report, for sure...but one of the worse films ever? Please...

I think it's one of the worst films ever, more damning because it gets a pass since it's a Spielberg film, and worse still because, as a result of the A-listers involved, people remember actually remember it as being a good film.

 

[label]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I think it's one of the worst films ever, more damning because it gets a pass since it's a Spielberg film, and worse still because, as a result of the A-listers involved, people remember actually remember it as being a good film.

Not to re-iterate what I've already posted in reply to you earlier in this thread, but I could care less that Spielberg was involved.....that does nothing for me as far as how I think about the film. And the "A-listers" involved could have been complete nobody's and assuming they had the same level of acting ability and on-screen presence as the original actors, I would have liked it the same.

In fact, I don't know a single person that would think to themselves, "hmmm, that movie had Spielberg/Cruise in it....it must have been pretty good". Any idiot who thinks like that deserves whatever crap Hollywood spoon feeds them. Most of us, I'd like to think, like or dislike a movie based on the merits of the movie itself, not who happened to be involved.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

Yes, I doubt such a shoddily thought out piece of science fiction would have gotten made to begin with if Spielberg wasn't prepped and ready to take whatever the writers' handed him. I'm sure the film would not be remembered if it had lesser stars.

 

[T'Baio]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I think it's one of the worst films ever...

Really? As an all around whole, you think it is one of the worst films ever made? Not just in its script form, but as a whole?

And I presume by saying "one of the worst," you don't mean there's only 5 films ever made that you like, and the rest are the worst.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

It may not have broken any new ground where effects or movies in general had gone before, but what it did do was something that is nothing short of miraculous. It took a huge franchise that had been milked drier than I thought possible - so much so that die hard fans like myself were burnt out on Trek - and breathed a whole new life into it. It took a set of established characters with established histories and a fan base 40 years old and not only got most of them back on board, but hooked a whole new generation of fans and did so in such a way that they can tell all new stories, with all new consequences/deaths possible and do so in a way that doesn't cast the first 10 movies by the wayside as meaningless.

It made Trek relevant and exciting again and even more impressively, did so in a "reboot" movie. For my money, that's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

There's another way to look at this, and many, many trek fans do take this other side:

What it did do was nothing short of standard Hollywoodization which we've seen give momentary popularity to properties like Sherlock Holmes - which is to engage in shallow storytelling and stupid slapstick humor to amuse people mindlessly for two hours. Sure they can tell all new stories, but what they're likely to manage is to make maybe two more relatively popular films (about the same life span as I see for Sherlock Holmes, where no. 2 is on the way).

What they did was turn a venerable science fiction franchise into yet another loud, flashy, empty bit of contemporary Hollywood flotsam that will produce a couple of sequels and then disappear into the ever growing pile of forgettable "summer blockbusters".

There was nothing "relevant" about Trek 11 (unless following the cookie-cutter formula for contemporizing old tv shows into movies is considered relevant) and any "excitement" was definitely in the eye of the beholder. I recall the standard review I gave to my non-Trekkie movie-going friends who enjoyed it when they asked me what I thought as a lifelong Trekkie - "Dumb but fun." They mostly agreed. Calling them a "new generation of fans" seems like overstating just a bit.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I think it's one of the worst films ever...

Really? As an all around whole, you think it is one of the worst films ever made? Not just in its script form, but as a whole?

And I presume by saying "one of the worst," you don't mean there's only 5 films ever made that you like, and the rest are the worst.

There are only a few films that have been able to overcome a bad script, usually through sheer will, through having all the best people and the best talnents brought to bear on every aspect of a production to make sure the film works despite script problems. One such film is, perhaps, on the list: Avatar.

But Minority Report relies so heavily on the very premise that it is built around that this is not the case. Culturally, this film has been deservedly forgotten by much of the public, as it deserves to be.

 

[AvBaur]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I'm fine with Avatar and agree with those who said Dark City and The Incredibles deserve spots on that list, but the one most glaring omission to me is Children of Men. That movie is simply spectacular and definitely better than at least half the movies on the list. (imho)

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

That list strikes me as contentious, but #1 is a good choice in my opinion. It's the only part of that trilogy that works as a self-contained movie.

Revenge Of The Sith may lack charisma, but it has an intriguing vibe to it.

Personally, I'd have found a place for Minority Report and maybe A Scanner Darkly too.

I wasn't a huge fan of A Scanner Darkly but I'd definately put it on the list before Donnie Darko or Wall-E. I also wish the list had found a place for Superman Returns. V for Vendetta is very underrated (but then, that might be considered speculative fiction, not science fiction). And so long as the list is chock full of dumb fun movies, where is Pirates of the Caribbean?

While the dialogue was very stiff in the Star Wars prequels, the movies were hugely popular and stirred up a massive, massive fanbase and extended its popularity to a new generation. The Star Wars prequels were events in the way that very few movies can muster nowadays in this crowded marketplace. Plus, because the fate of the Jedi was sealed by virtue of this being a prequel, Revenge of the Sith gets away with a much darker ending than your average blockbuster. It has a very interesting vibe to it.

I disagree about which Lord of the Rings film I would put in the top spot. Personally, I think that The Two Towers is the one that works best as a stand-alone movie. The Return of the King is overloaded with endings. The Fellowship of the Ring is good but feels a little lopsided. After the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, the movie spends the last hour puttering along without much momentum. The Two Towers peaks at just the right time with the Battle of Helm's Deep.

What it did do was nothing short of standard Hollywoodization which we've seen give momentary popularity to properties like Sherlock Holmes - which is to engage in shallow storytelling and stupid slapstick humor to amuse people mindlessly for two hours. Sure they can tell all new stories, but what they're likely to manage is to make maybe two more relatively popular films (about the same life span as I see for Sherlock Holmes, where no. 2 is on the way).

While I think you kinda have a point about Star Trek (2009), I must disagree with your assessment of Sherlock Holmes. While the film could have used a few more scenes of Holmes' deductions derrived from the most minute of details, I think that in many ways this is one of the most faithful adaptations of the characters as originally envisioned by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. (A closer adaptation would be the BBC film Sherlock Holmes & the Case of the Silk Stocking, but I think the 2009 Guy Ritchie film is as close as you can get while still making it palpable for general audiences.)

I'm fine with Avatar and agree with those who said Dark City and The Incredibles deserve spots on that list, but the one most glaring omission to me is Children of Men. That movie is simply spectacular and definitely better than at least half the movies on the list. (imho)

Brilliant! How had I not thought of Children of Men!!!!?

Avatar made too much money to not be on this list somewhere, but I think ranking it at #2 is excessive. Keep in mind, it came out less than a year ago. We don't yet have a real idea of what kind of lasting impact this 3-D craze will have (something which had already been occurring anyway, albeit on a smaller scale, before Avatar). I also think that, in a few years time, Inception will rightfully slide down a few rankings on that list.

 

[label]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

What it did do was nothing short of standard Hollywoodization which we've seen give momentary popularity to properties like Sherlock Holmes - which is to engage in shallow storytelling and stupid slapstick humor to amuse people mindlessly for two hours.

I'm not disagreeing that ST : XI was a bit more dumbed down than most of it's predecessors. There were a few cringe worthy moments like the whole Scotty in the water-tube sillyness, Scotty's lame ewok buddy as well as some of the McCoy humor. There's also well as the inexplicable decision to abandon Kirk on a God-forsaken winter planet where he will almost assuredly die and Kirk going from punishment/expulsion to Captain of the fleet's starship. I think a promotion to first officer or something would have been more than sufficient to end the movie and then pick up 3 years later after he made captain. Still, sacrifices, I think, must be made in order to get the story to a place where it's ready to start fresh without any more "origin" story in the second movie and that was accomplished, though at the expense of believability at times.

All that being said, it's not as if there weren't some equally lame humor/moments in ST III, IV and VI. And we won't even mention the train wreck that was the Final Frontier.

Sure they can tell all new stories, but what they're likely to manage is to make maybe two more relatively popular films (about the same life span as I see for Sherlock Holmes, where no. 2 is on the way).

As a fan of JJ Abrams and his shows like Lost, Alias and Fringe, it's my hope that he continues intelligent, engaging story telling and that this next Trek movie can retain it's popularity and still be thought-provoking. I realize for every Inception or Matrix there's a thousand Avatars or Independence Days, but I would hope that Abrams track record would be enough to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

What they did was turn a venerable science fiction franchise into yet another loud, flashy, empty bit of contemporary Hollywood flotsam that will produce a couple of sequels and then disappear into the ever growing pile of forgettable "summer blockbusters".

While I suppose that is a possibility, I hope that the writers will show enough respect for the original source material as to still honor it in spirit if not in law. While I realize there wasn't an abundance of substance in the first movie, it wasn't completely devoid of it entirely.

There was nothing "relevant" about Trek 11 (unless following the cookie-cutter formula for contemporizing old tv shows into movies is considered relevant) and any "excitement" was definitely in the eye of the beholder. I recall the standard review I gave to my non-Trekkie movie-going friends who enjoyed it when they asked me what I thought as a lifelong Trekkie - "Dumb but fun." They mostly agreed. Calling them a "new generation of fans" seems like overstating just a bit.

You might be right about where the franchise is headed, though obviously for old trekkers like myself, I hope not. Neither of us really know where the franchise is going to head based on what definitely qualifies as a pretty "special circumstance" type of movie and for all I know, you may be right. Still, my hope, however misguided it may be, is based on what I've experienced from Abrams and his various shows and especially from the Fringe writers who penned this movie (Orci/Kurtzmen).

With those two, Fringe started out as a pretty cookie-cutter X-files-ish type of TV show and based on the first half-dozen episodes, I didn't hold out a lot of hope it would evolve into much more than that. But, as I waited patiently watched the series mature and grow, as we progress into Season 3, I've been rewarded with a much more intricate, involved and interesting storyline than I ever thought they would do (especially on a Fox series) so I guess my hope is based on 2 parts optimism, 2 parts experience with the talent involved and 2 parts based on the quality of the source material that they people running the franchise have to work with.

All the being said, I must reiterate that as distinguished and intelligent as Trek could sometimes be in the past, some of the previous Trek movies weren't any "deeper" or more thought-provoking than ST XI in many ways. While I've enjoyed all Trek movies to one degree or another, some of the humor/action/scenes in ST III, IV, V and VI didn't exactly set the gold bar standard for excellence in writing so I don't want nostalgia to put previous incarnations on too high a pedestal here because I don't think it's all that warranted in many cases.

 

[zakkrusz]

Re: imdb lists THEIR opinion of the top 20 sciffy flicks of past 20 ye

I would say that the ratings for all of those on there that I've seen are exactly where they need to be within a 1 Star error margin.