Iliana

[Hober Mallow]

The thing that's always fascinated me about Ben is this: he's always been capable of cold-bloodedly killing or getting someone killed for seemingly trite reasons (he wants Juliet, he wants to be the special one, he wants to join the Others), he can hold a grudge for so long it festers and becomes a sick obsession, as his grudge against Widmore became... but getting beaten up seems to cause no animosity.

Let me put it another way.

You get in the way of Ben and something he wants, he'll kill you.

If you cross his family, he'll kill you or someone you love.

For shits and giggles, he'll mindfuck you.

If, however, you beat the living shit out of him, he really doesn't care. Once he has the upper hand again, he's completely forgotten about what you did to him.

It's really odd. If someone beat you up, you'd want to hurt them back. If Ben did that, it would be completely out of character. He let Sayid torture him, then ended up recruiting him for some jobs once they got off the island. Jack beat him up, then he got with Jack to try and help him (and himself) get back to the island. It's really bizarre and, I think, the key to Ben's character.

Why is he like this? His childhood with his father? I don't recall any evidence of physical abuse. Was his mental anguish so bad that physical pain really meant nothing to him by comparison? Did the healing waters have something to do with it? Long exposure to the island? This, more than anything else, fascinates me about Ben.

And i think Ben's change also says something about the "healing water", that supposed turns people evil...that such a legend really wasn't true. it might have magnified some bad qualities, but still allowed a person healed by the water to still do redeeming acts.

There's no evidence the waters turned people evil before Jacob died. The only thing we ever heard about the waters before was when Richard said it would make Ben always one of the Others.

 

[Morpheus 02]

With the first time he gets beat up, it's part of the Ben's plan. And Ben knows Sayid, that this is a part of his past.

Other times, especially Desmond, he kind of takes it as deserved punishment.

For those he "forgave", as you've said, he still needed them for something. Or , at the very least, they did not strike first (like Widmore and Ben's daughter).

Now..the real question about his desire & ability to be an evil Machaevillian (sp) leader...that's a good question...i gues she was a loner on the Island...and when you are alone, that opens the door to a lot of unchecked bad thoughts.

Also a mystery -- how Widmore's leadership shaped Ben's leadership (and then taking over the role)

 

[startrekwatcher]

And i think Ben's change also says something about the "healing water", that supposed turns people evil...that such a legend really wasn't true. it might have magnified some bad qualities, but still allowed a person healed by the water to still do redeeming acts.

There's no evidence the waters turned people evil before Jacob died. The only thing we ever heard about the waters before was when Richard said it would make Ben always one of the Others.

But Richard also told Kate that if they healed Ben his innocence would be gone--implication being that whatever the healing process did it would change him for the worse as an individual. One of the disappointing things about season six was we never saw much of young Ben after he was healed except for that brief scene in S5's "Dead is Dead"'s teaser where he is just waking up and meets Widmore for the first time. Then the next time Ben was 24 taking Alex in the next flashback from Danielle.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

The thing that's always fascinated me about Ben is this: he's always been capable of cold-bloodedly killing or getting someone killed for seemingly trite reasons (he wants Juliet, he wants to be the special one, he wants to join the Others), he can hold a grudge for so long it festers and becomes a sick obsession, as his grudge against Widmore became... but getting beaten up seems to cause no animosity.

Let me put it another way.

You get in the way of Ben and something he wants, he'll kill you.

If you cross his family, he'll kill you or someone you love.

For shits and giggles, he'll mindfuck you.

If, however, you beat the living shit out of him, he really doesn't care. Once he has the upper hand again, he's completely forgotten about what you did to him.

Everything in your first paragrpah is a form of emotional pain, while getting beat up is physical pain. Some people hurt more from one than the other.

 

[Alpinemaps]

So, back to Iliana...

She always felt like she was a replacement for Ana Lucia. Almost like, 'what if Ana Lucia had stuck around?'

It'd be interesting to consider her character, in those circumstances. Maybe not exactly the same way (i.e., 'like a father to me'), but what if, with the connection to Christian Sheppard, she was sent to the island to protect the candidates? What if, suddenly, at the end of Season 5, Ana Lucia shows up on the beach, and knows far more than we ever thought?

 

[Ryan8bit]

Re: Ilana

But Richard also told Kate that if they healed Ben his innocence would be gone--implication being that whatever the healing process did it would change him for the worse as an individual.

I'm guessing that the pool was a spring of some sort stemming from the light of the island. That light and the island is all about balance, and the people who come to the island try to tip the scales. Dogen knew this to an extent and that's probably partially what the tests he did to Sayid were. So for someone to be healed, they are creating an imbalance of life and death. To counter that balance, good and evil may change.