If they had any bells...
- Thread starter TheWelshPirate
- Start date
Re: If they had any balls...
Please, the "actual process" is even worse, what with them creating the new character John Harrison and then turning him into Khan because "it's what everyone wanted." Seriously, they went through the process of creating and developing a new character and then abandoned him. That says loads about what to expect from them.
I'm sorry, what? What relevant current day topics does STID touch upon? The movie pays lip service to terrorism, but not in any kind of profound or thought-provoking way.
Please, the "actual process" is even worse, what with them creating the new character John Harrison and then turning him into Khan because "it's what everyone wanted." Seriously, they went through the process of creating and developing a new character and then abandoned him. That says loads about what to expect from them.
I'm sorry, what? What relevant current day topics does STID touch upon? The movie pays lip service to terrorism, but not in any kind of profound or thought-provoking way.
Wait, who changed the name of the thread?!?
Hehe. I thought for a second I was seeing things!
They jingle when they jangle...
Re: If they had any balls...
- Blowback from intelligence operations gone wrong or left unattended.
- Former allies turned terrorists.
- The two points above leading to a mass casualty terrorist strike using a flying vehicle on an urban center with huge towers crumbling upon impact, and an attack on the command center of the military where the top brass are located.
- Targeted assassination of your own citizens.
- Unauthorized drone/cruise missile attacks on foreign soil.
- Military/political leaders thinking they are above the law.
- Secret intelligence organizations conducting illegal activities.
- Unlawful and indefinite detainment of prisoners and carrying out punishment without judicial review.
- The dangers of responding to a crisis out of hate, anger, fear, and vengeance.
- Preemptive war launched under false pretenses.
- Attacks on intelligence facilities.
It's not like it was a hidden subtext. They might as well have called it "Star Trek into the American Foreign Policy Experience of the Late 20th and Early 21st Century." Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, though.
- Blowback from intelligence operations gone wrong or left unattended.
- Former allies turned terrorists.
- The two points above leading to a mass casualty terrorist strike using a flying vehicle on an urban center with huge towers crumbling upon impact, and an attack on the command center of the military where the top brass are located.
- Targeted assassination of your own citizens.
- Unauthorized drone/cruise missile attacks on foreign soil.
- Military/political leaders thinking they are above the law.
- Secret intelligence organizations conducting illegal activities.
- Unlawful and indefinite detainment of prisoners and carrying out punishment without judicial review.
- The dangers of responding to a crisis out of hate, anger, fear, and vengeance.
- Preemptive war launched under false pretenses.
- Attacks on intelligence facilities.
It's not like it was a hidden subtext. They might as well have called it "Star Trek into the American Foreign Policy Experience of the Late 20th and Early 21st Century." Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, though.
Those are just generic plot points you can find in the average action thriller since, like, ever. Nothing profound or thought provoking about it, just as Wormhole said.
Uh huh.
"What relevant current day topics does STID touch upon?"
"Well, there's all of these..."
"Those don't count."
"Good talk, son."
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Re: If they had any balls...
Those two at least are old storytelling tropes and hardly influenced by the current political climate.
Those two at least are old storytelling tropes and hardly influenced by the current political climate.
"What relevant current day topics does STID touch upon?"
"Well, there's all of these..."
"These two don't count, even though they're perfectly relevant too."
"But I listed eleven things."
"Well, there's all of these..."
"These two don't count, even though they're perfectly relevant too."
"But I listed eleven things."
Re: If they had any balls...
It's a double-edged sword, but I agree. I want to see "boldly going", and I too am a little sick of Earth being treated like some kind of 'home base' that the Enterprise departs and returns to at the start and end of every movie. (This applies to all the old movies as well, they aren't exempt from that.) My sincere hope is that the next movie follows through on the promise of the end of STiD, that the Enterprise and her crew are finally going to be "out there" exploring the unknown, and a long way from home territory. But then again, I had the same feeling at the end of the 2009 movie, and that turned out to be an unfulfiled expectation. So I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie begins and ends at Earth again.
It's a double-edged sword, but I agree. I want to see "boldly going", and I too am a little sick of Earth being treated like some kind of 'home base' that the Enterprise departs and returns to at the start and end of every movie. (This applies to all the old movies as well, they aren't exempt from that.) My sincere hope is that the next movie follows through on the promise of the end of STiD, that the Enterprise and her crew are finally going to be "out there" exploring the unknown, and a long way from home territory. But then again, I had the same feeling at the end of the 2009 movie, and that turned out to be an unfulfiled expectation. So I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie begins and ends at Earth again.
Whenever you really want to show how bad a baddie can be to everyone, have Earth be in danger, if not under direct attack.
^ I can appreciate the dramatic shorthand of it, but it does lead to a... what would be the word? It lacks imagination. It's largely the main reason why Nemesis gets panned for Shinzon's sudden change of motivation halfway through, because although "Hahahaha, I'mma gonna destroy Earth cuz I'm EVUL!!!!!" is an easy way to 'involve' the audience in the drama, it also lacks consistent logic within the script.
My broader issue with Earth seeming to be a consistent home base in the Star Trek movies (old and new) derives more from it being a sorta kinda destruction of the original Star Trek format, because the original bible accentuated deep space isolation from Earth as being a key element of what Star Trek *is*. By all means they should feature humans, colonial bases, starbases on the fringes of Federation territory, etc. Place them under threat. But Earth itself became a bit of an easy crutch in the original movies, TOS and TNG ones alike, and I'd really like to see nuTrek wean itself away from Earth-as-dramatic-device.
My broader issue with Earth seeming to be a consistent home base in the Star Trek movies (old and new) derives more from it being a sorta kinda destruction of the original Star Trek format, because the original bible accentuated deep space isolation from Earth as being a key element of what Star Trek *is*. By all means they should feature humans, colonial bases, starbases on the fringes of Federation territory, etc. Place them under threat. But Earth itself became a bit of an easy crutch in the original movies, TOS and TNG ones alike, and I'd really like to see nuTrek wean itself away from Earth-as-dramatic-device.
Strange why TWOK worked.
Or how the top film villains are from films in which Earth isn't in danger. Darth Vader, Hannibal Lecter, Hans Gruber, heck even the Terminator isn't concerned with Earth, it's about one or two individuals first and foremost.
It always baffles me when the viewers/watchers/audience adopt the limited thinking of (modern day) Hollywood producers.
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Re: If they had any balls...
So you knew that what you said about 'the suits' was incorrect and said it anyway, just to be a curmudgeon? Fair enough.
And if you actually paid attention to the process, Orci and Kurtzman developed the story first to ensure that, in their mind, it worked as a standalone. They wanted to have a film that didn't depend on Khan as a crutch. It's fair game to debate on whether or not they pulled it off, but none of your comments jibe with the facts and smack entirely of trolling for effect.
Locutus touched on these in far more detail than I would have. The back and forth between Kirk and Spock on the morality of drone attacks felt exactly like classic Trek: a little too earnest and on the nose but not without some value.
I'll never stop marvelling at the sainthood fans bestow on old Trek, as if it was some towering moral treatise that spoke truth to power. STiD had more going on upstairs than most action-adventure fare at the movies last year. The same could be said for TOS. Neither were particularly courageous or affecting, but it's nice to know they tried.
So you knew that what you said about 'the suits' was incorrect and said it anyway, just to be a curmudgeon? Fair enough.
And if you actually paid attention to the process, Orci and Kurtzman developed the story first to ensure that, in their mind, it worked as a standalone. They wanted to have a film that didn't depend on Khan as a crutch. It's fair game to debate on whether or not they pulled it off, but none of your comments jibe with the facts and smack entirely of trolling for effect.
Locutus touched on these in far more detail than I would have. The back and forth between Kirk and Spock on the morality of drone attacks felt exactly like classic Trek: a little too earnest and on the nose but not without some value.
I'll never stop marvelling at the sainthood fans bestow on old Trek, as if it was some towering moral treatise that spoke truth to power. STiD had more going on upstairs than most action-adventure fare at the movies last year. The same could be said for TOS. Neither were particularly courageous or affecting, but it's nice to know they tried.
I suppose you can do so much better and ensure high box office success can you?
Why the fuck should I, I just want to watch a movie, not make it. I don't limit what I want to what bean counters think it is what I want. Why do you?
And while we're at it: nobody can ensure high box office success. What a laughable statement. If it were certain, there would be no bombs and no surprise hits.
That was an unnecessary dig (all the more so for having been edited in after the fact) and you ought to have known better.
This comment was also unnecessary. The bit you quoted was bait which should have been left alone. Further, you ought to have known better than to respond to a general dig by upping the ante and taking a personal swipe. You've been cautioned about that on more than one occasion previously and here it will earn you a warning.
Jarod, you already got a reaction with your borderline post above and ought to have left well enough alone. Since you didn't, and instead went right back at anh165 with a personal swipe of your own, you too receive a warning.
Both of you: please do better. Comments to PM.
Aaaand back to topic...
Re: If they had any balls...
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you... Bob Orci in a suit.
Check and mate, brother. I refute you thus.
Carry on.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you... Bob Orci in a suit.
Check and mate, brother. I refute you thus.
Carry on.
He's hunky.
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