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If the new show is set in the Prime universe...

Joke, dude.

Ah well, no one corrected my spelling of Romulus. The meds must be working.

Nope. But seeing a Ferengi would make Star Trek- fans happy. And maybe even bring fans of the new show to check out the 'old stuff' on CBS access. Two things CBS would generally benefit from.

And again, what the fuck does it have to do with the oldTrek universe?
 
This does not require the oldTrek continuity in any way.

Nope. But seeing a Ferengi would make Star Trek- fans happy. And maybe even bring fans of the new show to check out the 'old stuff' on CBS access. Two things CBS would generally benefit from.

Hell, even Honest Trailers, which is as mass audience as geek-culture will probably get, mentioned that they would like to see some known species in Star Trek again.

I really feel like a broken record here.

No one is saying that we want to jettison everything. There are certain aspects of Star Trek that will be in Trek no matter what. Certain alien races are some of them. I just don't want the writers to feel beholden to canon elements regarding the Ferengi, like the Federation never seeing one until 2364 (unless you're Enterprise. Then you just conveniently don't have them mention their race. :rolleyes:). That kind of thing. If they have a good story involving the Ferengi, then, dammit, let the writers use them! But if it involves the Federation meeting them before 2364, then I don't want fans to flip out about it.

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment! I just come to a different conclusion from there.

I think the JJverse would be the more problematic. Because a new show would probably be set at the same time around like the movies. So in any potential appereance of the Ferengi, the writers would have to explain why there already is contact with the Ferengi in this universe. Which means they would run into continuity problems again. And fan outrage. Again. For either explaining too little ("They just don't mentioned their names? Again?") or explaining too much ("Seriously, who needs alternate timeline history lessons, anyone?")

Setting the show in a (hypothetical broad strokes) prime universe, Ferengi could just randomly appear, and the writers can go on with their story from there.
 
As for the rest? There's an alien. That really should be enough information to figure out his role in a given story.

This does not require the oldTrek continuity in any way.

Nope. But seeing a Ferengi would make Star Trek- fans happy. And maybe even bring fans of the new show to check out the 'old stuff' on CBS access. Two things CBS would generally benefit from.

Hell, even Honest Trailers, which is as mass audience as geek-culture will probably get, mentioned that they would like to see some known species in Star Trek again.



I don't care if I never see the "old" universe again and certainly want the new series to keep as far away from cheap cameos of previous actors as possible.

I want it to be the first one that doesn't so they can get on with their own story for once.


Well, I kind of enjoyed Scotty's appereance on TNG. Or Barclay's on Voyager for that matter. Or Andorians on Enterprise. Or literally any guest role on DS9. Why exclude possibilities like that from the get-go?
A new universe excludes possibilities? :confused::confused::confused:

Seriously, if Stargate could use parallel and quantum universes to allow for characters to return, characters to be seen again, etc, then certainly Trek can do it.

For me, Prime continuity means restricting story possibilities, aside from cameos or nods. I think more could be done from a new universe, based upon current scientific knowledge, and allow a new crew to get out in to the universe.
 
The Ferengi didn't work. Get rid of them. The Orian sydicate can easily take over and they're just blue makeup.

A third universe is probably the way they are going to go.
 
So in any potential appereance of the Ferengi, the writers would have to explain why there already is contact with the Ferengi in this universe. Which means they would run into continuity problems again.

That shit's not important. The writers don't have to explain jack.

The rule ought to be that if something needs to be tied to the old shows to make story sense, jettison it on the page.

As near as I can figure from what's being posted now, what the oldTrek fans mean when they say "Prime Universe" has something to do with the putative timeframe in which the series takes place.

They want it to happen at some point in Trek's faux history after the old shows.

Fine, as long as the writers are free to contradict or ignore anything from the old shows that's troublesome or boring. And they shouldn't stick things like Ferengis in the show just because there used to be Ferengis on the old shows.

Myself, I hope they set it in Kirk and Spock's time. That's real genuine Star Trek. ;)
 
So in any potential appereance of the Ferengi, the writers would have to explain why there already is contact with the Ferengi in this universe. Which means they would run into continuity problems again.

That shit's not important. The writers don't have to explain jack.

The rule ought to be that if something needs to be tied to the old shows to make story sense, jettison it on the page.

As near as I can figure from what's being posted now, what the oldTrek fans mean when they say "Prime Universe" has something to do with the putative timeframe in which the series takes place.

They want it to happen at some point in Trek's faux history after the old shows.

Fine, as long as the writers are free to contradict or ignore anything from the old shows that's troublesome or boring. And they shouldn't stick things like Ferengis in the show just because there used to be Ferengis on the old shows.

Myself, I hope they set it in Kirk and Spock's time. That's real genuine Star Trek. ;)

YES! That's the point!

Setting it an Kirk and Spock's time would only increase the chances of possible continuity errors and following fan outrage, though.

A little bit in the future of the prime universe, you can pretty much introduce anything you want! Npbody will complain that "we haven never heard of the Xindi before!!111eleven!



The REAL challenge for Kurtzman and co. is now to make this timeframe feel as fresh, new, energetic and adventures as the Kirk and Spock - era was ;)
 
I couldn't agree more with that sentiment! I just come to a different conclusion from there.

I think the JJverse would be the more problematic. Because a new show would probably be set at the same time around like the movies. So in any potential appereance of the Ferengi, the writers would have to explain why there already is contact with the Ferengi in this universe. Which means they would run into continuity problems again. And fan outrage. Again. For either explaining too little ("They just don't mentioned their names? Again?") or explaining too much ("Seriously, who needs alternate timeline history lessons, anyone?")

Setting the show in a (hypothetical broad strokes) prime universe, Ferengi could just randomly appear, and the writers can go on with their story from there.

The possibility of both the JJverse or something completely new allow for new continuity to be created. Once Nero came back in time, everything changed. Nothing was sacred. And that's what I see in most fans who are asking for a return to Prime. They can't accept that things changed. I'm not saying you, Rahul, as you seem a little more down to earth than most, but many will be so adamantly against any kind of reboot. They want a series that continues in real time from the end of Voyager and picks up all of the loose threads. I think that kind of storytelling is restrictive. And I don't want to see what happens to Picard, Riker, Worf, Kira, O'Brien, Odo, Janeway, Chakotay and the Doctor.

Why?

Because their stories have been told. I don't want to know how they died. I don't want to see any future stories because they're irrelevant and damned near masturbatory at this point. The writers told the stories they wanted to tell and now I want to be able to use my imagination in order to continue the story.

"But you can set it in a broad future 500 years down the line?"
No. You can't. Because the moment you do that, then from here you extrapolate the technology and it could easily answer every single problem. You think transwarp beaming is a problem now? Oy.

I want stories about people and using the human element in order to fix a problem. From 1987 until about 1998, I loved all things Star Trek and I thought it could do no wrong. Now, as a 35 year old man, I see a lot of problems in the storytelling. How tech solved so much in the spinoffs and how there is an almost unbelievable amount of perfection in these characters. I've come to appreciate TOS far more than I did growing up. Because at the end of the day, Kirk, Spock and McCoy were imperfect persons.

I want characters who are flawed but are trying to be as perfect as they can be. I want characters who, on occasion, fail. I don't want technology to be the solution to everything because it isn't now nor will it ever be. And I'm afraid any return to the Prime Universe will give me the exact opposite of that.

That's why I find any return to the Primeverse restrictive. That's why I don't want it.

End of rant. :)
 
maybe we can knock off the whole "why we want it in the old/nuTrek universe" debate altogether.

We know why.

But the purpose of life is not to waste one's life hiding from life in a humongous (however comforting) pile of Star Trek canon.

Life!


.
 
"If the new show is set in the Prime universe...

... it paints the writers into a limited, walled garden where they can't do anything without deliberately enraging/alienating fans.
Since when did they care about that - the audience? When is the last time you've heard a writer or artist praise listening to the audience? They'll do whatever the hell they wish. Prime constraints don't apply to that aspect of concern.
 
I couldn't agree more with that sentiment! I just come to a different conclusion from there.

I think the JJverse would be the more problematic. Because a new show would probably be set at the same time around like the movies. So in any potential appereance of the Ferengi, the writers would have to explain why there already is contact with the Ferengi in this universe. Which means they would run into continuity problems again. And fan outrage. Again. For either explaining too little ("They just don't mentioned their names? Again?") or explaining too much ("Seriously, who needs alternate timeline history lessons, anyone?")

Setting the show in a (hypothetical broad strokes) prime universe, Ferengi could just randomly appear, and the writers can go on with their story from there.

The possibility of both the JJverse or something completely new allow for new continuity to be created. Once Nero came back in time, everything changed. Nothing was sacred. And that's what I see in most fans who are asking for a return to Prime. They can't accept that things changed. I'm not saying you, Rahul, as you seem a little more down to earth than most, but many will be so adamantly against any kind of reboot. They want a series that continues in real time from the end of Voyager and picks up all of the loose threads. I think that kind of storytelling is restrictive. And I don't want to see what happens to Picard, Riker, Worf, Kira, O'Brien, Odo, Janeway, Chakotay and the Doctor.

Why?

Because their stories have been told. I don't want to know how they died. I don't want to see any future stories because they're irrelevant and damned near masturbatory at this point. The writers told the stories they wanted to tell and now I want to be able to use my imagination in order to continue the story.

"But you can set it in a broad future 500 years down the line?"
No. You can't. Because the moment you do that, then from here you extrapolate the technology and it could easily answer every single problem. You think transwarp beaming is a problem now? Oy.

I want stories about people and using the human element in order to fix a problem. From 1987 until about 1998, I loved all things Star Trek and I thought it could do no wrong. Now, as a 35 year old man, I see a lot of problems in the storytelling. How tech solved so much in the spinoffs and how there is an almost unbelievable amount of perfection in these characters. I've come to appreciate TOS far more than I did growing up. Because at the end of the day, Kirk, Spock and McCoy were imperfect persons.

I want characters who are flawed but are trying to be as perfect as they can be. I want characters who, on occasion, fail. I don't want technology to be the solution to everything because it isn't now nor will it ever be. And I'm afraid any return to the Prime Universe will give me the exact opposite of that.

That's why I find any return to the Primeverse restrictive. That's why I don't want it.

End of rant. :)

So basically, you want a modern show?

Worry not, Kurtzman will give it to you, no matter what universe it takes place in ;)

Hell, I love the pacing and fresh energy of JJ's Star Trek 09. My biggest complain about it is that it dwells too much on old Trek! (Because they didn't create a clean state like a Reboot normally would do. They created an even more complex situation with alternate timelines and such!)


In fact, I personally dislike Into Darkness because it's WAY too much 90's Trek! We got section 31,
a morally corrupt Federation in a conflict-ladden universe, and pretty much the whole film takes place in dark, grey corridors of dark, grey starships or in dark, grey cities on dark, grey planets, with characters wearing dark and grey clothes. Gnah.

Give me colourfull aliens, undiscovered planets, strange new lifeforms, alien civilisations, robot societies and talking plants again!
 
No. I want The Original Series. Re-imagined with new characters in the 21st century. With respect for Trek's 50 years of past, but heading for the future. Our future.
 
Setting it an Kirk and Spock's time would only increase the chances of possible continuity errors and following fan outrage, though.
As much as I advocate listening to the audience, that reasoning is getting as old as religious outrage meant to squelch freedom of speech. It's also been said that while the new series does depend on an audience, that audience needs to consist of new fans - not just old (often literally) fans to survive. So the fan issue on those terms becomes obviated when the new show is all they know. Finally, since when have writers concerned themselves with what the fans want?
 
Something within 20 years of the original series - either direction - would be fine. Essentially contemporary with TOS, but a little wiggle room.
 
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