If the new show is set in the Prime universe...

[Relayer1]

While I argue it would make sense to do such a reboot, I'm confused as to why you would believe that technologically it would be so unfamiliar? I mean, we don't have warp drive. We don't have transporters. Phasers, tricorders and communicators don't seem to exist. Yeah, we have our own version of PADDs now and touchscreens but why do those things make a difference when the show could easily show virtual displays? I mean, I don't think that's far off base. Sure, medical technology has advanced but what they could show in Star Trek would be leaps and bounds above. So what do you mean by that statement? I don't get it.

Extrapolating the future from what we know now, in the next one to two hundred years we will probably have :

Beaten most diseases.

And new diseases will be encountered and old ones will evolve. Just like in Prime Trek.



Like a 137 year old Admiral McCoy?



Wasn't that the main point of "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Return to Tomorrow" and "The Schizoid Man?"

Failed to break the speed of light.
Failed to generate gravity.
Failed to transport any significant quantity of matter.

Star Trek is about optimism. Extrapolating from today does not mean that things aren't possible. It's about dreaming about the future and the things that may be possible. No one has DEFINITIVELY proven that those things are impossible, and one could argue in 1966, the same things could be said. Back then, did we really think that breaking the speed of light was possible? That creating artificial gravity was possible? That transporting objects was possible?

Doesn't sound much like Trek does it ?

Actually, much of it, yes.

McCoy's nearly dead and just hanging on - 'conquered ageing' means either not ageing or being incredibly long lived - centuries or millennia.

I should have clarified that most of my other points suggest no interstellar travel and flesh and blood people living in a virtual world or people discarding physical bodies entirely.

I suppose they could set up a virtual world with spaceships etc.

 

[ALF]

"If the new show is set in the Prime universe...

... it paints the writers into a limited, walled garden where they can't do anything without deliberately enraging/alienating fans. Even if it's hundreds of years into the future in the 26-29th century."

I'd be amazed if they go back to Prime. From a production point-of-view it's a catastrophe. Beholden to 10 films and over 700 episodes? Who would want to write for that?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a return there. But I just don't see it. Now that we have a bonafide multiverse, it will be used.

 

[LLAP]

I can slap "misconception" in front of everything the Anti-JJers say without refuting any of it too. Sorta lazy way to post though.

Go ahead. I'm not writing an essay here. Anyway I've said my part, I don't care about science fiction, I don't care about money, I don't care about the producers or writers or what people think people will watch. I'd rather have one genuine Star Trek episode than 100 that cater to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Mudd]

They're all genuine Star Trek episodes. You just don't like some of them.

 

[Rahul]

...

Let's look at the numbers One More Time, shall we?

Enterprise may or may not have been great television, YMMV. The actual facts, however, don't support the claim that quality is why Star Trek ended.

Boredom with a decade of repetition is why Star Trek ended. People started dropping it the week after DS9 premiered and it just kept dropping. DS9 didn't "satisfy the masses." Neither did Voyager.

Sure, let's go back to that.

Here's the most you're going to get:

They may say "it's in the Prime Universe." Then maybe they'll do a flyby of Vulcan. And then they'll ignore all that and do whatever the fuck seems to them like a good idea in 2016.

(Highlighted by me)

Or they will fail.

Well... that would be EXACTLY what we (those prime-universe lovers) want to happen!

I've got the impression your misconception is that we want 90s storytelling techniques and production values back. Which is ludicrous. We want a completely modernised and new series, set in the old continuity.

Because we don't want to get back to the past/timeframe of TOS again. We want to boldly go... INTO THE FUTURE.

I have absolutely zero desire to see how another crew in the new timeline makes ANOTHER first contact with the Ferengi... I want to see new stories, where a Ferengi character can appear, and nobody has to care to explain the backstory again, because frankly, most of the audiences and the characters should know by this point what a Ferengi is. And for those who do not, he should immediately be recognised as an alien merchant. Which should suffice for all intents and purpuses of the story.

That's the reason I want to go back to the prime timeline: I want to see new stories, new characters and new adventures, set in a universe with a rich backstory that enhances the experience, but shouldn't be required to know. I DON'T want to see a show that has to explain us every time the Borg or Cardassians pop up what their alternate backstory in this alternate universe is.

That, and because I love the characters and stories in the old universe so much, and like to see them getting respected while handing the torch over to a new generation, instead of being erased from (fictional) history.


BTW as for that graph: It's bogus. While tecnically correct, the Nielson ratings aren't the number of viewers, but market shares. During this time, a MASSIVE amount of new channels came to existence, which means the market shares of EVERYONE and EVERY show statistically went down. It's a testament to the quality of TNG for being such a great show it manages to gain viewers in a competing and growing market, in contrast to literally EVERY other show, not just Trek.

 

[Campe]

McCoy's nearly dead and just hanging on

Well, that's just pure speculation on your part.

I should have clarified that most of my other points suggest no interstellar travel and flesh and blood people living in a virtual world or people discarding physical bodies entirely.

I suppose they could set up a virtual world with spaceships etc.

I'd like to point out that you are cornering this so-called Star Trek into a box based upon your preconceived notions of technology and extrapolating from today. I mean, logically, you can't have Star Trek without space travel of some kind. Maybe even if it were transwarp beaming.

<gasp!>

Yeah, I went there.

What I mainly meant by technology was the look of such. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

 

[Mudd]

Because we don't want to get back to the past/timeframe of TOS again. We want to boldly go... INTO THE FUTURE.

Everything about the old continuity is the past.

The differences between the two continuities are minimal. We're missing a planet, right? Vulcan?

Aside from that...what difference does the so-called "universe" make?

The only reason to care about putting it in the oldTrek universe - taking you at your word that you don't want the new show to look or play like the old stuff - is to revisit a lot of junk. "Let's see what happened in the Beta Quadrant twenty years after the Dominion War."

No, let's please not do that. Ever. Again.

The new writers and producers should be able to make up whatever works for the show without having to look over their shoulders and worry about whether they've contradicted some bit of BS that a couple hundred fans will tear them up for on the Internet ten minutes later.

 

[Rahul]

Keep it simple, keep it in broad strokes.

I want the new show to be set in the same universe where Captain Kirk and Picard once commanded the Enterprise.

I don't care if the precise date of the first contact matches with the old continuity or other shit like that.

 

[Mudd]

I want the new show to be set in the same universe where Captain Kirk and Picard once commanded the Enterprise.

That would narrow it down, then, to either:

• The oldTrek universe;
• The nuTrek universe;
• Some third universe.

So, maybe we can knock off the whole "why we want it in the old/nuTrek universe" debate altogether.

 

[Campe]

Well... that would be EXACTLY what we (those prime-universe lovers) want to happen!

I've got the impression your misconception is that we want 90s storytelling techniques and production values back. Which is ludicrous. We want a completely modernised and new series, set in the old continuity.

Because we don't want to get back to the past/timeframe of TOS again. We want to boldly go... INTO THE FUTURE.

I have absolutely zero desire to see how another crew in the new timeline makes ANOTHER first contact with the Ferengi... I want to see new stories, where a Ferengi character can appear, and nobody has to care to explain the backstory again, because frankly, most of the audiences and the characters should know by this point what a Ferengi is. And for those who do not, he should immediately be recognised as an alien merchant. Which should suffice for all intents and purpuses of the story.

That's the reason I want to go back to the prime timeline: I want to see new stories, new characters and new adventures, set in a universe with a rich backstory that enhances the experience, but shouldn't be required to know. I DON'T want to see a show that has to explain us every time the Borg or Cardassians pop up what their alternate backstory in this alternate universe is.

That, and because I love the characters and stories in the old universe so much, and like to see them getting respected while handing the torch over to a new generation, instead of being erased from (fictional) history.

I hate to break it to you but what you want (and what I want, for that matter) is completely irrelevant.

"What do the CBS shareholders want?"
"What does Les Moonves want?"
"What will bring in the most viewers?"
"What will make the advertisers happy?"
"What will keep me with a job in a season?"

Those are the questions that Kurtzman is asking. Not "What do the die-hards want out of a Star Trek series?" Those goals likely are not one in the same.

 

[LLAP]

Reality TV is the most profitable risk free investment a television executive can make. Not everything is about numbers as much as you all seem to think. Have some imagination people wow.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Reality TV is the most profitable risk free investment a television executive can make.

Not necessarily. It isn't 2004 anymore. Plenty of reality TV shows are debuting terribly, to the point by which the relative on-the-cheap budget still isn't enough to get producers canned upon cancellation.

 

[Campe]

Not everything is about numbers as much as you all seem to think. Have some imagination people wow.

You're completely wrong in this case. They are utilizing Star Trek in order to launch original programming on a relatively new service. Of course its all about numbers!

 

[drt]

I want to see new stories, where a Ferengi character can appear, and nobody has to care to explain the backstory again, because frankly, most of the audiences and the characters should know by this point what a Ferengi is. And for those who do not, he should immediately be recognised as an alien merchant. Which should suffice for all intents and purpuses of the story.

I think it's arguable that most of the audience actually does not know what a Ferengi is. None of the TNG-era stuff other than the crew and the Borg really entered the pop-culture consciousness the way the Kirk-era trappings did.

Which is why my guess is the setting will be roughly concurrent to Kirk-era or immediately afterward, since that's what the majority of a new, non-Trekkie audience is going to be looking for in a Star Trek show. I also wouldn't be surprised if they just left which Universe it's taking place in nebulous.

 

[Rahul]

I want to see new stories, where a Ferengi character can appear, and nobody has to care to explain the backstory again, because frankly, most of the audiences and the characters should know by this point what a Ferengi is. And for those who do not, he should immediately be recognised as an alien merchant. Which should suffice for all intents and purpuses of the story.

I think it's arguable that most of the audience actually does not know what a Ferengi is. None of the TNG-era stuff other than the crew and the Borg really entered the pop-culture consciousness the way the Kirk-era trappings did.

Which is why my guess is the setting will be roughly concurrent to Kirk-era or immediately afterward, since that's what the majority of a new, non-Trekkie audience is going to be looking for in a Star Trek show. I also wouldn't be surprised if they just left which Universe it's taking place in nebulous.

Well, my girlfriend probably doesn't know what a Ferengi is. But literally everyone that has ever had an interest in scifi-/comic-/nerd- culture can identify one. And those guys would be targeted as the core audience.

People don't even need to remember the name 'Ferengi'. But they have seen them before. And if it was only Quark in a publicity photo for DS9.

As for the rest? There's an alien. That really should be enough information to figure out his role in a given story.

'Re-introducing' them and their alternate backstory in the JJ-verse would be much more problematic (we would wind up with something like their appereance on Enterprise: pissing off the core audience, and being meaningless to casual viewers)

 

[Kemaiku]

I don't care if I never see the "old" universe again and certainly want the new series to keep as far away from cheap cameos of previous actors as possible.

I want it to be the first one that doesn't so they can get on with their own story for once.

 

[Mudd]

As for the rest? There's an alien. That really should be enough information to figure out his role in a given story.

This does not require the oldTrek continuity in any way.

I don't care if I never see the "old" universe again and certainly want the new series to keep as far away from cheap cameos of previous actors as possible.

I want it to be the first one that doesn't so they can get on with their own story for once.

Yep.

Except that if they set it in the 25th century I want to see an aged QuintoSpock set out on his doomed mission to prevent the Hobus star from destroying Romulas.

 

[Rahul]

As for the rest? There's an alien. That really should be enough information to figure out his role in a given story.

This does not require the oldTrek continuity in any way.

Nope. But seeing a Ferengi would make Star Trek- fans happy. And maybe even bring fans of the new show to check out the 'old stuff' on CBS access. Two things CBS would generally benefit from.

Hell, even Honest Trailers, which is as mass audience as geek-culture will probably get, mentioned that they would like to see some known species in Star Trek again.

I don't care if I never see the "old" universe again and certainly want the new series to keep as far away from cheap cameos of previous actors as possible.

I want it to be the first one that doesn't so they can get on with their own story for once.

Well, I kind of enjoyed Scotty's appereance on TNG. Or Barclay's on Voyager for that matter. Or Andorians on Enterprise. Or literally any guest role on DS9. Why exclude possibilities like that from the get-go?

 

[Campe]

As for the rest? There's an alien. That really should be enough information to figure out his role in a given story.

This does not require the oldTrek continuity in any way.

Nope. But seeing a Ferengi would make Star Trek- fans happy. And maybe even bring fans of the new show to check out the 'old stuff' on CBS access. Two things CBS would generally benefit from.

Hell, even Honest Trailers, which is as mass audience as geek-culture will probably get, mentioned that they would like to see some known species in Star Trek again.

I really feel like a broken record here.

No one is saying that we want to jettison everything. There are certain aspects of Star Trek that will be in Trek no matter what. Certain alien races are some of them. I just don't want the writers to feel beholden to canon elements regarding the Ferengi, like the Federation never seeing one until 2364 (unless you're Enterprise. Then you just conveniently don't have them mention their race. ). That kind of thing. If they have a good story involving the Ferengi, then, dammit, let the writers use them! But if it involves the Federation meeting them before 2364, then I don't want fans to flip out about it.

 

[Rahul]

...

Yep.

Except that if they set it in the 25th century I want to see an aged QuintoSpock set out on his doomed mission to prevent the Hobus star from destroying Romulas.

That would be exactly the kind of obscure nerd-references to specific plot points from past stories that almost crippled IInto Darkness and should be avoided at all cost in the future...