If Buffy had ended with Season 5...

[Sci]

I think the story was incomplete. Buffy the Vampire Slayer's essential theme is just what it says on the tin -- it's the story about how Buffy learns to self-actualize by incorporating her role as the Slayer into her larger self-construct.

No, it's about a girl slaying vampires. Sadly that's not the way it stayed, and went to lay them instead.

I don't think Buffy had done that by the end of Season Five. Really, I don't think she ever figured out how to do that -- how to go from being both Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, to being Buffy the Vampire Slayer -- until she figured out how to break the Watchers Council's system of control over the Slayer by empowering every Potential in the world, thus ending the one-Slayer-at-a-time rule. Only by overthrowing the Council's system of control and sharing her power did she truly become Buffy the Vampire Slayer; that done, the story was over.

Except of course for that annoying problem that Buffy wasn't under the control of the Watcher's Council to begin with, and most certainly broke with them in S3. And she didn't become Buffy the Vampire Slayer, she started out Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and ended Buffy the Vampire Layer, general bitch on high.

Yes, 3D Master, we know, you've made it very clear innumerable times in the seven years that have passed since "Chosen" aired and the show ended that you don't like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We get it. Thanks.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I can't believe people liked Glory more than The Geeks! Yeah, they weren't menacing and powerful like her, but I'd prefer some genuinely entertaining villains that are endearing in their ineptitude and have fun dialogue over the one-note annoying-as-hell waste of space Glory was.

Their arguments about nerdy stuff were delightful. I love that they would talk about stuff I knew about. I think their scenes were some of the funniest material in the series and a huge breath of fresh air and relief from the wretchedly hideous, stupid, and nonsensical Buffy and Spike relationship.

Again, it would have been better to get a season 5 that took some good elements from season 5 and 6 (The Trio, evil Willow) and dropped the bad ones (Glory, Buffy/Spike relationship) instead of a season 5 that starts off great only to be ruined by its Big Bad, a season 6 that has little going for it BESIDES the fact that its villains rule, and a season 7 that is almost completely worthless.

 

[RoJoHen]

I'll say it again: I loved Glory.

Here's why I don't like The Trio:

1) They're not supernatural. They're not demons. They're not evil. We already fought a human foe once in Season 4 with the The Initiative. I did't want to see it again.

2) Jonathon: His involvement bugged the shit out of me. The kid that Buffy stopped from killing himself. The kid that gave Buffy the Class Protector award at the Prom. This kid is suddenly a bad guy who is trying to defeat Buffy? I was so annoyed that he was there at all.

Plus, I feel like they were just too silly for the serious tone of Season 6. Season 6 was about Buffy living in Hell on Earth and trying to cope. The light-hearted humor of the Trio just didn't work for me.

 

[Jetfire]

^
I agree. Of course Warren does a truly evil non-supernatural human act. I hated their shenanigans but what Warren finally does fits.

 

[RoJoHen]

Yes, Warren eventually becomes evil, but to be honest I can't figure out exactly what happened that drove him so far overboard.

What I do really love about Season 6, though, is that Xander is the one that ends up saving the world all my himself.

 

[Jetfire]

^
With no supernatural abilities...it was a nice touch. I still do not like Xander though.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Plus, I feel like they were just too silly for the serious tone of Season 6. Season 6 was about Buffy living in Hell on Earth and trying to cope. The light-hearted humor of the Trio just didn't work for me.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, but the humour was part of my point. Funny how I react the opposite to how you do. I feel the humour was a great relief from all the horrible stuff going on. But alas, there's too much of that hell and not enough humour for me, which is why I can only stand to watch a few episodes of that season. The majority of it is just too much of a bummer for me.

 

[RoJoHen]

It might have helped if I found the Trio's humor even remotely funny. I must not be a big enough nerd.

 

[Mr Light]

I liked Glory as an unstoppable mysterious badass but she spent too much talking and not doing anything. I liked the Trio as comedic relief but they should never have been a season long primary threat. I liked the idea of the First as an unstoppable fundamental force of evil but its lack of physical body and its lameo "uber vamps" completely undercut that. Too bad Caleb wasn't introduced sooner. Basically, every villain in S4 on was fundamental flawed in some way. The Mayor and Faith were the pinnacle.

 

[Too Much Fun]

It might have helped if I found the Trio's humor even remotely funny. I must not be a big enough nerd.

Yeah. Timothy Dalton should win an Oscar and beat you over the head with it. Scully wants me so bad.

 

[CaptMurdock]

Plus, despite the middle of the season being fairly mediocre, I think the beginning and end of Season 6 are absolutely fantastic.

Did we watch the same Season 6? Almost every character is written horribly, completely different from their past seasons, one character is killed in the stupidest, most pointless on-screen death in twenty years, and two others commit acts that are virtually irredeemable. This is supposed to be entertaining?

Underlined part: you'll have to be more specific.

1. Spike's attempted rape of Buffy. And please, don't give me the "What do you expect, he's evil" line. It's just sickening to watch.
2. As much as Warren deserved to die, watching Willow torture him, skin him alive and then fry him is really hard to watch. But that at least is arguable. Going after Jonathon and Andrew, who were in jail when Tara was killed and had nothing to do with it, there was no reason for that. Threatening to turn Dawn back into a ball of energy and trying to destroy the world in a fit of pique...sorry, I can't hang.

What really sucked is, Season 7, everything virtually goes back to normal like none of the above ever happened. Oh, is Willow coming back? She can stay in the guest room. Whaaaat???

 

[saturn5]

I think one of the strongest motifs of Buffy was forgiveness, for Andrew, Willow, Faith, Spike. I'm glad we had season 7, it's one of the best seasons and I was ecstatic that virtually everyone lived happily ever after.

Loved Felicia Day as Vi, my second favourite potential after the wonderful Sarah Hagan as Amanda

 

[3D Master]

I think one of the strongest motifs of Buffy was forgiveness, for Andrew, Willow, Faith, Spike. I'm glad we had season 7, it's one of the best seasons and I was ecstatic that virtually everyone lived happily ever after.

No, it's one of the worst motifs. Because once again; the only ones getting forgiveness was the speciul ones with POWERZZZ! Even Andrew has magical abilities. Go find any normal humans that got forgiveness, and you'll find none. But if you're speciul, you can get away with mass murder and mass rapes.

 

[Forbin]

Good point. As soon as Anya went back to Vengeance Demoning after Xander dumped her, Buffy's only reaction was "Guess I gotta kill her, then."

 

[Derishton]

Plus, I feel like they were just too silly for the serious tone of Season 6. Season 6 was about Buffy living in Hell on Earth and trying to cope. The light-hearted humor of the Trio just didn't work for me.

Yeah, I understand what you mean, but the humour was part of my point. Funny how I react the opposite to how you do. I feel the humour was a great relief from all the horrible stuff going on. But alas, there's too much of that hell and not enough humour for me, which is why I can only stand to watch a few episodes of that season. The majority of it is just too much of a bummer for me.

Yeah, the humorous villains/everything else is dark seems key to udnerstanding the season.

I always thought Season 6 was largely about being trapped in your own solipsistic world, where everything is about you, and how off the rails you can go when it turns out there's a world out there. Willow does that, Warren does that, Spike does that, etc. Only Buffy has a real case - she should be in heaven and isn't, because (again) her friends think it's all about them. The geekiness of the Trio is precisely why they're the season's apparent Big Bad (but selfishness is the real Big Bad).

On another note: when Buffy decides they have to kill Anya, you can't really complain that the show isn't aware of the problem (powerful heroes get to live, everyone else dies). The episode makes a point of that problem explicitly.

 

[Captain Zog]

Season 5 would have been a great way to end the series. That said, I really enjoyed what came afterwards, so I'm very glad the series lasted another two seasons!!!

Season 6, despite its flaws and occasional jumping of the metaphorical shark, was a very memorable slice of television. It tranformed the series into a darker, broodier, character-based soap opera (for better or for worse - you decide).

Season 7 was actually more flawed, though I did appreciate the lighter tone and the re-shifting of the series' focus onto more external threats. Sadly, The First proved to be less credible a threat than it was intially made out to be and the Potentials were poorly conceived and excuted. It was still great TV though - and I enjoyed it thoroughly on second viewing in late 2004.

 

[DevilEyes]

I think one of the strongest motifs of Buffy was forgiveness, for Andrew, Willow, Faith, Spike. I'm glad we had season 7, it's one of the best seasons and I was ecstatic that virtually everyone lived happily ever after.

No, it's one of the worst motifs. Because once again; the only ones getting forgiveness was the speciul ones with POWERZZZ! Even Andrew has magical abilities. Go find any normal humans that got forgiveness, and you'll find none. But if you're speciul, you can get away with mass murder and mass rapes.

Which would make sense if you could find a single example of a normal human that Buffy condemned only because they didn't have powers.

Ah, that's right, she never killed any humans. Willow did; Buffy always opts to leave them to the police, even when they're as evil as Warren.

 

[DevilEyes]

Underlined part: you'll have to be more specific.

1. Spike's attempted rape of Buffy. And please, don't give me the "What do you expect, he's evil" line. It's just sickening to watch.
2. As much as Warren deserved to die, watching Willow torture him, skin him alive and then fry him is really hard to watch. But that at least is arguable. Going after Jonathon and Andrew, who were in jail when Tara was killed and had nothing to do with it, there was no reason for that. Threatening to turn Dawn back into a ball of energy and trying to destroy the world in a fit of pique...sorry, I can't hang.

3. Willow's violation of Tara's mind, and the subsequent some would say, successful rape of Tara in OMWF (at the very least, consent was very suspect there...)

4. Andrew's and Jonathan's complicity in the premeditated attempted rape of Katrina (and planned rape of many other women), and being accomplices after the fact in Warren's manslaughter of Katrina, not to mention trying to frame Buffy

5. Xander endangering the public by summoning the demon in OMWF, causing the deaths of several people

6. Spike trying to bite a woman as soon as he thought his chip wasn't working

7. Buffy trying to kill her friends in "Normal Again"

8. Buffy beating Spike black and blue and leaving him in the alley: You know that if it the genders were reversed and it was Biff the Vampire Slayer pounding the face of his secret vampire girlfriend Spiketta into a hamburger, there would have been angry letters to ME and screams of bloody murder, and if you tried to mention the fact that Spiketta told Biff "Put it all on me", you'd be condemned for condoning Domestic Abuse

9. Xander's attempted murder of Spike for no other reason than having had consensual sex with Xander's ex after Xander had dumped her at the altar (and don't give me "he is not human so it's OK to do anything you want with him", that would just make Scoobies look like hypocrites who are perfectly content to have a supposedly 'sub-human' being around for brawn, sex, and whatever else they need at the moment and then kill him if they feel like it)...

... There could have been something else that I've forgotten; there was a lot of awful behavior to go around. Where exactly do you draw the line between "redeemable" and "irredeemable"?

What really sucked is, Season 7, everything virtually goes back to normal like none of the above ever happened. Oh, is Willow coming back? She can stay in the guest room. Whaaaat???

Yeah, they should have all just killed each other or committed suicides instead. Or spend every damn episode of S7 talking about the bad things that they have done and how sorry they were, with a daily dose of whippings, electric shocks, and walking over broken glass.

I'll say it again: I loved Glory.

Here's why I don't like The Trio:

1) They're not supernatural. They're not demons. They're not evil. We already fought a human foe once in Season 4 with the The Initiative. I did't want to see it again.

2) Jonathon: His involvement bugged the shit out of me. The kid that Buffy stopped from killing himself. The kid that gave Buffy the Class Protector award at the Prom. This kid is suddenly a bad guy who is trying to defeat Buffy? I was so annoyed that he was there at all.

Plus, I feel like they were just too silly for the serious tone of Season 6. Season 6 was about Buffy living in Hell on Earth and trying to cope. The light-hearted humor of the Trio just didn't work for me.

That's exactly why I liked them. How do you follow all the vampires or demons and even a hell god as the Big Bad? You make your next villains all human - and not just that, but a bunch of sorry immature nerds. You make them silly... and then you make them commit murders and show that they can in fact be very dangerous.

Besides, they nicely paralleled the theme of the season - the Scoobies were trying to deal with adulthood and real life, and not really doing a good job of it, messing everything up. It was fitting that the villains were another trio of high school outcasts who had trouble growing up and dealing with the real world. Notice the Warren - Willow parallel: both former high school nerds who got drunk on power they got through supernatural means.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I'll say it again: I loved Glory.

Here's why I don't like The Trio:

1) They're not supernatural. They're not demons. They're not evil. We already fought a human foe once in Season 4 with the The Initiative. I did't want to see it again.

2) Jonathon: His involvement bugged the shit out of me. The kid that Buffy stopped from killing himself. The kid that gave Buffy the Class Protector award at the Prom. This kid is suddenly a bad guy who is trying to defeat Buffy? I was so annoyed that he was there at all.

Plus, I feel like they were just too silly for the serious tone of Season 6. Season 6 was about Buffy living in Hell on Earth and trying to cope. The light-hearted humor of the Trio just didn't work for me.

That's exactly why I liked them. How do you follow all the vampires or demons and even a hell god as the Big Bad? You make your next villains all human - and not just that, but a bunch of sorry immature nerds. You make them silly... and then you make them commit murders and show that they can in fact be very dangerous.

Besides, they nicely paralleled the theme of the season - the Scoobies were trying to deal with adulthood and real life, and not really doing a good job of it, messing everything up. It was fitting that the villains were another trio of high school outcasts who had trouble growing up and dealing with the real world. Notice the Warren - Willow parallel: both former high school nerds who got drunk on power they got through supernatural means.

HELL YES. For once we feel exactly the same about something on this show. Thank goodness for the trio. Before them, there hadn't been a good main villain since The Mayor (and I LOVED season 4). They were way better than Glory and her lame, hammy, never-shuts-the-hell-up ass.

 

[Forbin]

One of the least redeemable (most irredeemable?) characters, IMHO, was Faith. I don't care how much remorse she feels. She terrorized and murdered that nice innocent old professor with premeditation and outright glee. She was not possessed, not a soulless demon. She murdered an innocent man for fun and profit. She should still be rotting in fucking jail.