Ideas sharing for a NEW animated show

[Danlav05]

Hi there!!

I'd like to open another spinoff from the TAS: The Remake thread, discussing the various possibilities for a new Animated show. A live action show whould be nice, but this looks more and more likely as opposed to a live action show, with the JJVerse films in full swing and money issues regarding network television in the USA. 4 years between movies is getting too long a wait!

Remember we're not just creating a show for fans, but for the wider audience in general.

As for using existing audio I personally don't see the point in animating TAS, but I do with 25th Anniversary/Judgement Rites or SOVF (if it can be found and cleared), or the 24th Century's A Final Unity/Harbinger/Elite Force etc (they could make good DTV's though)

The most likely option TPTB will choose is a CGI show rather than 2D animation. But what about the premise/channel? Well CBS is kind of associsated with Viacom who owns Nickelodeon. Transformers Prime has aired on The Hub, so there's another potential platform.

But what of the premise? Here are a few options:

23rd Century
If we get a 23rd Century show, wether we like it or not it will almost certainly be set in the JJVerse, be it further adventures of the Enterprise (like the comics) or another ship, which could be better. It could open up the universe introducing races such as the Gorn, Tellarites, Andorians etc. Heck , the crew could even go into the Mirror Universe

You could even go before the movie on the Kelvin, or Sulu on the Excelsior as someone suggested. Maybe some of the movie castmembers would be OK for occasional guest spots.

24th Century
A new Next Generation would be fun, since Picard and crew are very much still in the public concienceness for a generation. Wether or not it would be a reboot is anyone's guess, but it could be set during or just after the TV series. There could be new Lower Decks crew to allow new character arcs.

It could be anothe ship before the Dominion War that crosses paths with the Enterprise and visits DS9 a bit, perhaps having an appearance from Voyager characters set right before the show.

Another option is Post-Nemesis. The Titan, I'm more than sure that Frakes and Sirtis will be up for reprising their roles. Also other characters from the era could return - like in the books they could steal crewmembers from Voyager and DS9. With mindmelds and flashbacks the Classic era could be revisited too, covering the wider spectrum (I know people are a bit bored of time travel).

25th Century
The Undiscovered Country. A couple of pitches by Bryan Singer & Dave Rossi proposed a live-action future show, but over in the Gaming world you have a premise and designs ready and waiting. The future of Trek involving may races and a comprehensive backstory. Why not adapt it into a show? If not adapt their 'episodes', then create a new story with characters on a ship. You have Space Station K7 and DS9 there with the Guardian of Forever. Lots of Easter Eggs for the fans.

Going into the 26th/27th etc Century I feel is going a bit too far into the future, so making the 25th the limit would be fine I feel.

Anthology
Set in all time periods and maybe even visiting the 21st Century for the Eugenics Wars.

The important thing would be an exciting adventure series with compelling storytelling and visuals.

What do you guys think?

 

[C.E. Evans]

The most likely option TPTB will choose is a CGI show rather than 2D animation.

Well...I don't think CGI is any more likely than 2D animation. Quite a few 2D animated action shows actually feature CGI vehicles, so it could go either way, IMO.

I do think, however, CGI lends itself more to shows with more non-Human characters than Human ones or shows where the Human form is exaggerated to quite a degree.

But what about the premise/channel? Well CBS is kind of associsated with Viacom who owns Nickelodeon.

They're kinda associated like a divorced couple that had a nasty split awhile back. They tend to steer clear of one another as much as possible these days, so Nick may not be on the table.

Transformers Prime has aired on The Hub, so there's another potential platform.

There's also TimeWarner's Cartoon Network. CBS really has a closer relationship with TimeWarner than they do with Viacom (they both formed the CW network together, so their Saturday morning action cartoon block is also an option).

But what of the premise?

I think almost anything goes, but I tend to lean more towards another take on TOS set in it's own simplified continuity and aimed at younger kids. It could draw heavily from the Abramsverse as far as its style and tone, but the character designs could be tweaked to be more superhero-ish and the Enterprise made even more "kewler" looking.

 

[Danlav05]

The most likely option TPTB will choose is a CGI show rather than 2D animation.

Well...I don't think CGI is any more likely than 2D animation. Quite a few 2D animated action shows actually feature CGI vehicles, so it could go either way, IMO.

Yeah, I noticed that even on Family Guy now

I do think, however, CGI lends itself more to shows with more non-Human characters than Human ones or shows where the Human form is exaggerated to quite a degree.

There's also TimeWarner's Cartoon Network. CBS really has a closer relationship with TimeWarner than they do with Viacom (they both formed the CW network together, so their Saturday morning action cartoon block is also an option).

CN would be very cool if it could get on there.

I think almost anything goes, but I tend to lean more towards another take on TOS set in it's own simplified continuity and aimed at younger kids. It could draw heavily from the Abramsverse as far as its style and tone, but the character designs could be tweaked to be more superhero-ish and the Enterprise made even more "kewler" looking.

Ah more like Batman: Brave and the Bold? It could be a fun show that could channel the feel of the 60s

 

[C.E. Evans]

The most likely option TPTB will choose is a CGI show rather than 2D animation.

Well...I don't think CGI is any more likely than 2D animation. Quite a few 2D animated action shows actually feature CGI vehicles, so it could go either way, IMO.

Yeah, I noticed that even on Family Guy now

I do think, however, CGI lends itself more to shows with more non-Human characters than Human ones or shows where the Human form is exaggerated to quite a degree.

There's also TimeWarner's Cartoon Network. CBS really has a closer relationship with TimeWarner than they do with Viacom (they both formed the CW network together, so their Saturday morning action cartoon block is also an option).

CN would be very cool if it could get on there.

I think almost anything goes, but I tend to lean more towards another take on TOS set in it's own simplified continuity and aimed at younger kids. It could draw heavily from the Abramsverse as far as its style and tone, but the character designs could be tweaked to be more superhero-ish and the Enterprise made even more "kewler" looking.

Ah more like Batman: Brave and the Bold? It could be a fun show that could channel the feel of the 60s

I was thinking more the opposite, of taking the designs even further away from the 60s than they did with Star Trek XI.

 

[Danlav05]

Well...I don't think CGI is any more likely than 2D animation. Quite a few 2D animated action shows actually feature CGI vehicles, so it could go either way, IMO.

Yeah, I noticed that even on Family Guy now

I think almost anything goes, but I tend to lean more towards another take on TOS set in it's own simplified continuity and aimed at younger kids. It could draw heavily from the Abramsverse as far as its style and tone, but the character designs could be tweaked to be more superhero-ish and the Enterprise made even more "kewler" looking.

Ah more like Batman: Brave and the Bold? It could be a fun show that could channel the feel of the 60s

I was thinking more the opposite, of taking the designs even further away from the 60s than they did with Star Trek XI.

Hmm i find reboots interesting. Wonder how the show could be taken further from the 60s.

Well thre was Jeremy Grunloh's Reborn that recast Trek as an occupational drama and one one idea reimagfining the Romulans as a terrorist cell from Vulcan.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=61567

I find it so interesting to find a new spin on a familiar piece.

 

[Admiral2]

Hi there!!

I'd like to open another spinoff from the TAS: The Remake thread, discussing the various possibilities for a new Animated show. A live action show whould be nice, but this looks more and more likely as opposed to a live action show, with the JJVerse films in full swing and money issues regarding network television in the USA. 4 years between movies is getting too long a wait!

Why would an animated series be more likely? A good one will require more effort to put together than filming live action, and the average full length animated series takes four years to do. It's not like you'd get it any faster than waiting for JJ to get off his butt.

Remember we're not just creating a show for fans, but for the wider audience in general.

Then you don't do an animated series, cause in the USA the "wider audience in general" thinks all animation is for kids, with the exception of FOX's animated comedies and shows like South Park and Archer, which are at turns raunchy, vulgar, insulting and just downright mean. Does that sound like a TAS you'd want to see? By doing a trek animated series and playing it "straight" you'd be consigning it to the tamer nights of Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, which will actually narrow your potential audience considerably.

As for using existing audio I personally don't see the point in animating TAS, but I do with 25th Anniversary/Judgement Rites or SOVF (if it can be found and cleared), or the 24th Century's A Final Unity/Harbinger/Elite Force etc (they could make good DTV's though)

The most likely option TPTB will choose is a CGI show rather than 2D animation.

Again, why is this more likely? Modern 2D animation techniques involve almost as much computer time as 3D techniques. The choice will come down to cost as much as aesthetics.

 

[Danlav05]

Why would an animated series be more likely? A good one will require more effort to put together than filming live action, and the average full length animated series takes four years to do. It's not like you'd get it any faster than waiting for JJ to get off his butt.

In the wake of Terra Nova I'm thinking that a channel would prefer to hold on to an animated show. Even Lucasfilm are having trouble raising money to fund a live action Star Wars series.

More and more shows are going towards the CGI option. Clone words is CGI, as are Transformers Prime, Green Lantern and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

I've just got an idea to reboot Trek by including the first four majore series characters. It may seem bonkers, but there goes:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5988307#post5988307

 

[Danlav05]

EDIT: Double post

 

[Admiral2]

In the wake of Terra Nova I'm thinking that a channel would prefer to hold on to an animated show.

By what reasoning? They just got rid of Terra Nova, and like I said, an animated show won't necessarily be cheaper, easier or generate better ratings.

Even Lucasfilm are having trouble raising money to fund a live action Star Wars series.

I'm pretty sure that part of that is due to what they came up with the last time they tried live action Wars on TV: Holiday Special, anyone?

More and more shows are going towards the CGI option. Clone words is CGI,

The original Clone Wars short episodes were 2D. Their success paved the way for the full series.

as are Transformers Prime,

Series about giant transforming robots are suited to 3D animation. Trek is not about giant transforming robots.

Green Lantern

The characters in that show all look like stuffed figures designed by Bruce Timm. It would have been better off 2D'd.

and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

Which just ends your animated trek up looking like everybody else. And everybody else is on networks like Cartoon Network and the Hub. And it's for kids. You're not going to broaden the Trek audience doing it.

 

[The Overlord]

In the wake of Terra Nova I'm thinking that a channel would prefer to hold on to an animated show.

By what reasoning? They just got rid of Terra Nova, and like I said, an animated show won't necessarily be cheaper, easier or generate better ratings.

Even Lucasfilm are having trouble raising money to fund a live action Star Wars series.

I'm pretty sure that part of that is due to what they came up with the last time they tried live action Wars on TV: Holiday Special, anyone?



The original Clone Wars short episodes were 2D. Their success paved the way for the full series.



Series about giant transforming robots are suited to 3D animation. Trek is not about giant transforming robots.

Green Lantern

The characters in that show all look like stuffed figures designed by Bruce Timm. It would have been better off 2D'd.

and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

Which just ends your animated trek up looking like everybody else. And everybody else is on networks like Cartoon Network and the Hub. And it's for kids. You're not going to broaden the Trek audience doing it.

Except there are a lot of action cartoons that are rated PG nowadays, which is the same rating the live action Star Trek shows.

Also what evidence is there that a live action show would be more cost effective. Terra Nova is extremely expensive and it was live action, live action Sci fi shows cost a lot of money.

Also what's wrong with using a PG cartoon to try and introduce kids to Star Trek? That's what Clone wars is doing with Star Wars.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

In the wake of Terra Nova I'm thinking that a channel would prefer to hold on to an animated show.

By what reasoning? They just got rid of Terra Nova, and like I said, an animated show won't necessarily be cheaper, easier or generate better ratings.



I'm pretty sure that part of that is due to what they came up with the last time they tried live action Wars on TV: Holiday Special, anyone?



The original Clone Wars short episodes were 2D. Their success paved the way for the full series.



Series about giant transforming robots are suited to 3D animation. Trek is not about giant transforming robots.



The characters in that show all look like stuffed figures designed by Bruce Timm. It would have been better off 2D'd.

and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

Which just ends your animated trek up looking like everybody else. And everybody else is on networks like Cartoon Network and the Hub. And it's for kids. You're not going to broaden the Trek audience doing it.

Except there are a lot of action cartoons that are rated PG nowadays, which is the same rating the live action Star Trek shows.

Also what evidence is there that a live action show would be more cost effective. Terra Nova is extremely expensive and it was live action, live action Sci fi shows cost a lot of money.

Also what's wrong with using a PG cartoon to try and introduce kids to Star Trek? That's what Clone wars is doing with Star Wars.

Plus its not like cartoons these days are any less violent then a live action show would be.

 

[Admiral2]

Except there are a lot of action cartoons that are rated PG nowadays, which is the same rating the live action Star Trek shows.

But there are still limits to what you can show in a cartoon compared to what you can show in a live action show, regardless of rating, which is a matter of US law, because in the American mindset cartoons are for kids. That's why there is an Adult Swim.

Also what evidence is there that a live action show would be more cost effective. Terra Nova is extremely expensive and it was live action, live action Sci fi shows cost a lot of money.

An animated version would have cost just as much money and taken twice as long to produce because, unlike a live action show with added effects, an animated show is nothing but effects. That's what animation is. It's the difference between being able to air a show in a year and a half and being able to air it in four years and paying about the same price.

Also what's wrong with using a PG cartoon to try and introduce kids to Star Trek? That's what Clone wars is doing with Star Wars.

Nothing's wrong with that, except that it flies in the face of what the OP said the cartoon should do, which is appeal to a "general" audience. General audience means you also need to appeal to adult Trek newbies, which you won't do if you target it at kids, which is what newbies automatically think when you create a cartoon that isn't just like Family Guy, which is what I've been saying.

Plus its not like cartoons these days are any less violent then a live action show would be.

Cartoon violence is not the same as live action violence. It can't be. Again, it is a matter of US law.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Plus its not like cartoons these days are any less violent then a live action show would be.

Cartoon violence is not the same as live action violence. It can't be. Again, it is a matter of US law.

You never watched Star Wars: The Clone Wars have you?

 

[M-Red]

Yeah, violence wouldn't be much of a problem anyway. Trek isn't nearly as violent in nature as Star Wars, and the TWC is about to crank out its fifth season.




Of the options listed, this concept would be my first choice:

24th Century
Another option is Post-Nemesis. The Titan, I'm more than sure that Frakes and Sirtis will be up for reprising their roles. Also other characters from the era could return - like in the books they could steal crewmembers from Voyager and DS9. With mindmelds and flashbacks the Classic era could be revisited too, covering the wider spectrum (I know people are a bit bored of time travel).

...but I'd be shocked if we actually got it.

This one makes me the most nervous, but it also has the most potential to steal my heart:
​

25th Century
The Undiscovered Country. A couple of pitches by Bryan Singer & Dave Rossi proposed a live-action future show, but over in the Gaming world you have a premise and designs ready and waiting. The future of Trek involving may races and a comprehensive backstory. Why not adapt it into a show?

....but there's very little chance of this one happening either.



And I would absolutely love to get this too:

Anthology
Set in all time periods and maybe even visiting the 21st Century for the Eugenics Wars.The important thing would be an exciting adventure series with compelling storytelling and visuals.

This could be The Star Trek Chronicles, a series that jumps around through time and space, giving us multiple arcs throughout a season that aren't connected to each other. One week we're with Sulu and the Excelsior after the Khitomer Accords; the next we're on DS9, etc.

But there's no chance of it happening though. Zero.



If we do get a new CGI series, it will almost certainly be this:

23rd Century
If we get a 23rd Century show, wether we like it or not it will almost certainly be set in the JJVerse, be it further adventures of the Enterprise (like the comics) or another ship, which could be better. It could open up the universe introducing races such as the Gorn, Tellarites, Andorians etc. Heck , the crew could even go into the Mirror Universe

...a big MEH. It's the most accessible to the most people, but it's also (by far) the least exciting option. Having said that, I'd definitely be watching though.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Plus its not like cartoons these days are any less violent then a live action show would be.

Cartoon violence is not the same as live action violence. It can't be. Again, it is a matter of US law.

You never watched Star Wars: The Clone Wars have you?

I think it depends on the particular network and what they will allow. Cartoon Network airs the TV-PG-V rated The Clone Wars with a parental guidence disclaimer for its violence content, while both Disney XD and The Hub stick mostly to TV-Y7-FV rated cartoons (it's interesting that The Hub lists both the original G.I. Joe and Transformers cartoons as being TV-PG--since when did kids require parental supervision to watch those shows?).

CN's Adult Swim does the TV-14 stuff...

 

[xortex]

An animated anthology show depicting various aspects of the lost years between Enterprise and the birth of the Federation sounds like a good idea.

 

[The Overlord]

Except there are a lot of action cartoons that are rated PG nowadays, which is the same rating the live action Star Trek shows.

But there are still limits to what you can show in a cartoon compared to what you can show in a live action show, regardless of rating, which is a matter of US law, because in the American mindset cartoons are for kids. That's why there is an Adult Swim.

Its not a matter of law, there is no law that has that all non comedy animation has to be aimed at kids in the US. Its merely cultural attitudes about animation, there is no law enforcing this, merely a fear that

Star Trek is not particularly graphic in terms of sex or violence, so what content would a Star Trek show need that couldn't fly on a PG rated cartoon? Frankly there are comic books that would be harder to transition into animation then Star Trek. Ghost Rider or even Daredevil would be harder to work in animation then Star Trek.

An animated version would have cost just as much money and taken twice as long to produce because, unlike a live action show with added effects, an animated show is nothing but effects. That's what animation is. It's the difference between being able to air a show in a year and a half and being able to air it in four years and paying about the same price.

And yet George Lucas said a live action Star Wars show was too expensive to produce back in 2010, when Clone wars was going on:

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-liveaction-tv-series-expensive-rob-72259/

Rick McCallum even commented on expense is an issue with a new Star wars show:http://collider.com/rick-mccallum-star-wars-tv-series-interview/137225/

This all the while Star Wars: the Clone wars is on the air. I think that puts some doubts into your theory that a live action sci fi show is instantly less expensive then an animated show.

Nothing's wrong with that, except that it flies in the face of what the OP said the cartoon should do, which is appeal to a "general" audience. General audience means you also need to appeal to adult Trek newbies, which you won't do if you target it at kids, which is what newbies automatically think when you create a cartoon that isn't just like Family Guy, which is what I've been saying.

Sometimes the best ways to get new fans is to get kids interested, lots of kids learn about say super heroes from cartoons and then they can become fans of the movies or even the comics later. Plus it might be more viable to have a Star Trek cartoon then a live action show at this time, Star wars the Clone wars seems to be doing well and the last live action Star Trek show flopped. It might be good to try to get a younger generation interested in Star Trek.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

More and more shows are going towards the CGI option. Clone words is CGI, as are Transformers Prime, Green Lantern and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

When Battlestar Galactica Blood & Chrome comes out as a pilot on SyFy this year we will see how an virtual set all-green-screen show works and it would still cost more than an all CGI-animated series.
I'm all for a CGI-animated Trek but it would have to be for age 14 and up. TV-14 ratings would be the aim and with violence.
If it is TV-PG then it will be so watered down it's not even worth it.

 

[C.E. Evans]

More and more shows are going towards the CGI option. Clone words is CGI, as are Transformers Prime, Green Lantern and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

New and current action-adventure/sci-fi shows that didn't go the CGI option:
The Avengers: Earth's Mightest Heroes
G.I. Joe: Renegades
Young Justice
Voltron Force
Thundercats
Transformers: Rescue Bots
Ultimate Spider-man (upcoming)
Tron: Uprising (upcoming)
Avatar: The Legend of Korra (upcoming)

What many of these shows are doing, however, is incorporating CGI vehicles and special effects, but the animation is still predominantly traditional.

 

[Bixby]

More and more shows are going towards the CGI option. Clone words is CGI, as are Transformers Prime, Green Lantern and the upcoming Beware The Batman. It's the way things are going with action-adventure sci-fi animation.

You will notice that 3 of the shows you mention are produced by Lucasfilm and Warner Brothers, two cash-solvent corporations that have pledged to make a quality 3D animated show (I have no idea who bankrolls the Transformers show).
There aren't too many of these billion-dollar studios and the amount of 3D shows they produce is quite small for one simple reason: Quality 3D character animation is EXPENSIVE!! Don't know if you've seen a lot of lesser-prestige 3D shows, but their overall look and animation is, relatively-speaking, SHITTY!
And so you know, the current CLONE WARS 3D show is easily put to shame when compared to the traditionnally-animated version produced a few years ago by Genndy Tartakovsky, from a story, design and style point-of-view.
My personal point-of-view.