I rmember when Star Trek II wasn't out yet

[johnnybear]

Also, nobody says they're entering a Klingon Neutral Zone. They just find Klingons in what might well be the Romulan Neutral Zone. Should the Klingons not be there? File a complaint with the Romulan Coast Guard, if you get out of the current quite unfair situation.

Wasn't it just before this time that The Romulans and Klingons had their big falling out? 2271 or around that time?
JB

 

[johnnybear]

We honestly have no idea whatever happened to the Organians. Certainly, we never see them intervene in corporeal affairs again, in any of the post-TOS movies or TV series.

My pet theory? At first, in the years after "Errand of Mercy," neither the Federation or the Klingons really knew how hands-on the Organians were going to be when it came to enforcing the truce, so the possibility of the Organians intervening acted as a deterrent, but as years went by and the Organians kept to themselves, on a higher plane of existence,the Klingons started pushing the envelope . . . while carefully steering clear of Organia, of course.

Which brings us to their aggressive behavior in their Kobyashi Maru simulation. (And the fact that that was just a hypothetical training exercise also provides a bit of wiggle room.)

Who said it was The Klingons that pushed the envelope? It could have been those battle hungry Starfleet admirals with an eye on a mineral rich planet too!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Anyone mention that Khan mispronounced the name of his Number One guy? Joachim.
In TOS when he gets out of deep freeze Khan calls him Jo-a-kim. He's the guy that slaps Uhura. Big and tall with black hair.
But in TWoK Khan calls him Wa-keem. And he has blonde hair. And a tan.
Where and how on a devastated desert planet does a guy maintain a supply of hair coloring?

Joachim looked like he had some Klingon ancestry to me but...(joking over) but maybe Joachim junior was the original guy's son?
JB

 

[johnnybear]

"Space Seed" was just on MeTV a few weeks ago and I freeze-framed the credits. And the name is spelled the same in the episode and the movie. I think that the guy that played him in the movie had recently been on several TV shows and was supposed to be a up-and-comer.

Judson Scott!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Like the analogy that Joachim was Joaquin's son and that Khan took him on as his own son! Could be that he was his own son but how many years was there between the movie and Space Seed episode? Eighteen at least I would have said!
JB

 

[Terok Nor]

Like the analogy that Joachim was Joaquin's son and that Khan took him on as his own son! Could be that he was his own son but how many years was there between the movie and Space Seed episode? Eighteen at least I would have said!
JB

15 in real life but who knows how many in TOS timeline? Apparently The Motion Picture is supposed to be set 2 years after the series which I find very hard to believe.

 

[Greg Cox]

This is where I shamelessly point out that there's a novel, TO REIGN IN HELL, that addresses most of the issues that johnnybear is speculating about.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Reign_in_Hell:_The_Exile_of_Khan_Noonien_Singh

Not that the answers I came up with are in any way definitive . . .. .

 

[johnnybear]

15 in real life but who knows how many in TOS timeline? Apparently The Motion Picture is supposed to be set 2 years after the series which I find very hard to believe.

I thought it was three years? Plus isn't there something like a decade between TMP and TWOK?
JB

 

[johnnybear]

This is where I shamelessly point out that there's a novel, TO REIGN IN HELL, that addresses most of the issues that johnnybear is speculating about.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Reign_in_Hell:_The_Exile_of_Khan_Noonien_Singh

Not that the answers I came up with are in any way definitive . . .. .

Never realised that you are the author of those books, Greg!
JB

 

[Maurice]

Johnnybear. Dude, did you just do 10 consecutive posts? Multiquote, my man!

 

[Terok Nor]

I thought it was three years? Plus isn't there something like a decade between TMP and TWOK?
JB

It's allegedly set in 2371 which is 2 years after Season 3 of TOS. I'm not buying it. As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after TOS Season 3 just like in real life. It's never stated on screen (as far as I know) so the year is not set in stone. TWOK is supposed to be 15 years after TMP, I think, but I'm sticking with 3 years later like in real life. Whoever came up with the timeline of the movies made some bizarre decisions.

 

[Kor]

It's allegedly set in 2371 which is 2 years after Season 3 of TOS. I'm not buying it. As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after TOS Season 3 just like in real life. It's never stated on screen (as far as I know) so the year is not set in stone. TWOK is supposed to be 15 years after TMP, I think, but I'm sticking with 3 years later like in real life. Whoever came up with the timeline of the movies made some bizarre decisions.

In an interview, Robert Wise said that when they were making the movie, the assumption was that the story took place ten years after the series, just like real time.

I think Okuda's spaceflight chronology originated the notion that TMP took place two years after TOS.

Kor

 

[J.T.B.]

As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after TOS Season 3 just like in real life. It's never stated on screen (as far as I know) so the year is not set in stone.

All that's said is Kirk has been Chief of Starfleet Operations for two and a half years and hasn't logged a "star hour" in that time. Nothing to rule out more years between TOS and that assignment.

 

[Captain Rob]

There's no way that the group that's with Khan in TWoK are all children of the original group. They are all too old. Then that brings up what happened to the original group. Never mind the fact that the devastating effects of Ceti Alpha VI exploding had on the surface of Ceti Alpha V. Would not make it a conducive place to raise children. Chekov and Terrell should have found those cargo containers full of rotting bones.

 

[Nyotarules]

It's a human saying, anyway. Someone like Khan with a superior intellect, and presumably well-read, already would have known it back in the 20th century.

Anyone mention that Khan mispronounced the name of his Number One guy? Joachim.
In TOS when he gets out of deep freeze Khan calls him Jo-a-kim. He's the guy that slaps Uhura. Big and tall with black hair.
But in TWoK Khan calls him Wa-keem. And he has blonde hair. And a tan.
Where and how on a devastated desert planet does a guy maintain a supply of hair coloring?

Vitamin D deficiency made his skin and hair pale

 

[Drone]

On the other hand, the Organians DO say that even conversing with primitive creatures such as ourselves is extremely painful to them, so I can't imagine that they were actively involved in negotiating the terms of the treaty or taking a hands-on role in enforcing it. They let us know that they were up there on a higher plane, ready to intervene if we got out of line again, but I'm not sure they considered that they had a "responsibility" to play an active role in corporeal affairs. I figure the Organian Peace Treaty was named after them, but not actually worked out them. The Organians pushed both combatants to sit down at the bargaining table, but that's about it . ..

My impression is that they pretty much wanted nothing to do with lesser life-forms and we're only stirred to act when our squabbling intruded on their own domain. It was like having two warring tribes of ants infesting your house; you try to separate them in a humane way, but you have better things to do than play referee to a bunch of insects for the next hundred years or so.

Well obviously some years back, but they didn't seem to have any qualms about being around Earthers, Klingons, and according to dialogue, many other species, in Observer Effect. In fact, this was their means of determining whether other races were suitable for first contact. It's possible that given the challenge to long held tradition of their protocol, and eventual capitulation to getting involved in the resurrection of Trip and Hoshi, that there may have been a subsequent hubbub amongst the Organians about the potential for continued contamination of the process by particularly successful importuning aliens, so that the whole scenario was shut down, in favor of a policy of isolation. Just throwing it out there.

Maybe Ensign Chekov joined on their last trip to a starbase before this episode occurred! Still ridiculous though as even if he was aboard how could Khan know every name of any passing crewman? But then again he had superior ability and probably learnt everyone's name from the files he was reading in sickbay!
JB

\
Yes, and he didn't choose him to be among those he was trying to sway over to his side in the briefing room, despite his potentially more pliant factor of youth, was because his experience on Earth during the unpleasantness may have predisposed him to be less than respectful of Slavs.

It's allegedly set in 2371 which is 2 years after Season 3 of TOS. I'm not buying it. As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after TOS Season 3 just like in real life. It's never stated on screen (as far as I know) so the year is not set in stone. TWOK is supposed to be 15 years after TMP, I think, but I'm sticking with 3 years later like in real life. Whoever came up with the timeline of the movies made some bizarre decisions.

Uh, are you sure you don't mean 2271?

 

[T'Bonz]

Johnnybear. Dude, did you just do 10 consecutive posts? Multiquote, my man!

Yes, good grief man, don't do that again. More than two in a row is frowned upon around here.

 

[johnnybear]

It's allegedly set in 2371 which is 2 years after Season 3 of TOS. I'm not buying it. As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after TOS Season 3 just like in real life. It's never stated on screen (as far as I know) so the year is not set in stone. TWOK is supposed to be 15 years after TMP, I think, but I'm sticking with 3 years later like in real life. Whoever came up with the timeline of the movies made some bizarre decisions.

Yeah I'd agree with that, Terok! Ten years gap is about right and I'd give TWOK about the same although that could clash with continuity with Space Seed!
JB

 

[F. King Daniel]

This thread draws parallels between comments about Wrath of Khan from the fanzine Interstat, and 2013 reactions to Star Trek Into Darkness.

Also, here's
If the Internet existed when Wrath of Khan hit theaters

 

[Nyotarules]

This thread draws parallels between comments about Wrath of Khan from the fanzine Interstat, and 2013 reactions to Star Trek Into Darkness.

Also, here's
If the Internet existed when Wrath of Khan hit theaters

Great link love the way TWOK is torn apart, yeah I know its satire lol Funnier that some cannot see satire even when its written in black and white