Own the Vic...love the Vic....
I officially began my journey through all Star Trek on October 9th...
- Thread starter Shalashaska
- Start date
Timeless is a strong if not the strongest candidate for "best" Voyager episode. For so many reasons. It was great seeing Levar Burton back as Geordi. Plus Burton really shows himself to be one of Star Trek's best directors with the episode. (Why didn't they give him a movie?). The crash sequence may be the single franchise best effects moment. I don't think it has ever been equaled in later offerings such as Enterprise? At least not on TV. Timeles itself is a near perfect episode. It's only negatives are more with the series itself. For whatever idiotic reason they will later attempt to essentially reuse or recycle many of the main plot elements in another prominent episode. It's a controversial and widely disliked one. Timeless suffers for being unintentionally blended with it.
I've been saving this until you reached this point to avoid spoiling anything. But Chuck over at SFDebris has a great review of the episode, along with what is probably the most succinct comparison between Picard and Sisko and a brilliant description of The Defiant. He does humorous tongue in cheek ST and SF reviews and has largely worked his way randomly through the Trek shows. (His take on Janeway is amusing.)
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d558.php
Be warned NSFW language
I really enjoyed it.
My only problem is with Chakotay and Harry wiping out 15 years of history. Do they really want to be back stuck in the Delta Quadrant that bad after all those years? Could they really not have just moved on and made a new life for themselves? Seems inconsistent with the characters I know from the past and kinda sad.
Oh, and future Harry's hair is truly awful. Enough to make me reconsider my stance on the episode
There is one detail that Harry as well as Chakotay of the future did not consider and that's in order to make that second past possible they along with Chakotay's girlfriend had to die! That's what I have a hard time to believe. Real people are rarely willing to die in order for other people to live. It happens though, but it's extremely rare. Here they seem to make that decision at the drop of a hat. But here not only did they renounced to live they also condemned to oblivion countless people that were born or saved from accidents in this reality that will not be born or will have those accidents in the other reality. I think that that is the main reason why what harry and Chak were doing was outlawed in the Federation.
Or strange character loves never mentioned before or again? Like "Tom loves The Sea!!?,"
As for Tom and Harry's rank... Sigh!
No, Tom ends the series outranking Harry. Harry stands as the longest serving and unprompted Ensign in Starfleet history. Even Reg Barley made Lt. Comander. So yes the repeat felon gets promoted and demoted and promoted again past Harry Kim several times. Even better I think Harry ends up getting more time in the brig... For having sex with an alien babe. Nope, no other deeper reason. No prohibitions. No weird complications. Harry is the only officer in Starfleet history to be charged and jailed for sex with a hot alien. You don't touch what's Janeways without consequence!
Put this in perspective. In the time we see Harry as an Ensign, Nog goes from illiterate street rat to Academy Cadet to Ensign to full Lieutenant earning several field promotions and is a decorated war hero. We even get a glimpse of him as the last Captain of the Defiant. And Harry? Is still Harry.
Put this in perspective. In the time we see Harry as an Ensign, Nog goes from illiterate street rat to Academy Cadet to Ensign to full Lieutenant earning several field promotions and is a decorated war hero. We even get a glimpse of him as the last Captain of the Defiant. And Harry? Is still Harry.
As I have said Karma says in order for James T Kirk or William Riker to exist there must by nature be Harry Kim to balance the scales.
I really enjoyed it.
My only problem is with Chakotay and Harry wiping out 15 years of history. Do they really want to be back stuck in the Delta Quadrant that bad after all those years? Could they really not have just moved on and made a new life for themselves? Seems inconsistent with the characters I know from the past and kinda sad.
Oh, and future Harry's hair is truly awful. Enough to make me reconsider my stance on the episode
Remember these questions. Tuck them away and save them for the end, after Nemesis. Some of what you ask may be answered. But more likely you will have far far more questions along these lines.
Oh and speaking of Time Travel and Janeway, did anybody notice the magic macguffin in timeless? The reveal that the Borg can talk to each other through time? Yeah! Puts things in perspective doesn't it? The Borg have met Janeway. The Borg can crank call the past much like Eric Cartman stuck in the 25th century. Puts Best of Both Worlds and First Contact in perspective does it not? Now just imagine how much fun the Federation is going to have when the rest of the Delta Quadrant eventually catches up with the Borg in order to enact their vengeance upon the dreaded destroyers of worlds, the Voyagers. (No really think it through. List of Delta Quadrant species friendly or prone to look favorably on Janeway? Neelix's Hedgehog people. List of those who consider themselves at war with the cursed ship of damned souls? Everybody else. )
I mostly agree with what you say about Insurrection, but you did miss one key motivation. and that's the "nobody has to die, they just have to move next door, and get to keep their powers". No that was sort of the point. By leaving the planet the Baku loose their immortality. They age decay and die. Just like everybody else. They become the Sona. It's removing the elves from the Magical Tree that gives them immortality (and cookies! Can't forget the cookies!). I'm not excusing the mess that is Insurrection. Just pointing out that they did have some badly explained moral questions buried within the trash heap of bad boob jokes and Klingon Acne. (They brought Michael Dorn back from playing a fully fleshed out and noble warrior on DS9 for this? At least in First Contact they let him butcher a Borg.)
And they didn't even let him morn ... uh, mourn.
Last edited:
the point of the story was not that 600 settlers would be inconvenienced.
It was that you don't fuck over a minority fir the sake of a majority.
As Picard said, at what point become thise actions immoral?
At 6000? At 6 million?
Can you put a number on an immoral action that still let's you rationalize it?
And there is another issue that was completely ignored for the plot.
Harvesting the planet's rings would make it uninhabitable, right?
That is not just the Ba'ku's fate on the line but a whole planets eco system with a rich and diverse number if life forms probably in the billions if the planet is anything like Earth and it looked very much like it.
How nobody even mentioned that us beyond me.
This movie suffers from low budget and small scope syndrom.
It should have been the Avatar of the Star Trek franchise.
But anyway. I treat it as an extension of the tv show these days and that makes it more enjoyable.
Oh, and what did you say earlier about Paris controlling a shuttle with a joystick again?
It was that you don't fuck over a minority fir the sake of a majority.
As Picard said, at what point become thise actions immoral?
At 6000? At 6 million?
Can you put a number on an immoral action that still let's you rationalize it?
And there is another issue that was completely ignored for the plot.
Harvesting the planet's rings would make it uninhabitable, right?
That is not just the Ba'ku's fate on the line but a whole planets eco system with a rich and diverse number if life forms probably in the billions if the planet is anything like Earth and it looked very much like it.
How nobody even mentioned that us beyond me.
This movie suffers from low budget and small scope syndrom.
It should have been the Avatar of the Star Trek franchise.
But anyway. I treat it as an extension of the tv show these days and that makes it more enjoyable.
Oh, and what did you say earlier about Paris controlling a shuttle with a joystick again?
It seems like Picard is made into an action hero for all 4 of the TNG movies.
He even makes a fool of himself in Nem when he drove like a lunatic and trespassed on that planet. Thus breaking the prime directive for no reason and behaving like a thug to boot.
Insurrection is my least favourite TNG film, though Nemesis isn't much better. The plot just isn't that strong, and it's filled with adolescent humour.
Initially when I was younger (14 when I saw it at the cinema) I laughed, but it still paled in comparison to First Contact.
Initially when I was younger (14 when I saw it at the cinema) I laughed, but it still paled in comparison to First Contact.
It's amazing what we let them get away with.
Well one difference between "Journey's End" and INS is that in the case of the former it was a UFP world and UFP citizens, in INS the world was settled before the UFP was even founded so the UFP had no claim on the planet just because it fell within their sphere of influence, the Ba'ku weren't UFP citizens. The Ba'ku had something the UFP wanted but rather try and negotiate for it they decided to come in and engage in acts such as Kidnapping, forced relocation, theft etc...
The more I read about INS the less sense it makes to me. The resource the Baku were taking advantage of clearly belonged to the federation; The relocation wasn't done for any other reason than to save their lives and yet it is presented like a bad thing, an evil deed even.
Sort of: "Look he's giving that dying guy CPR! What an evil bastard!"
How did the resource belong to the Federation? The Ba'ku settled on that world before the UFP was created. Therfore any and all resources belonged to them not the UFP.
Besides another plot hole re: the Son'a is that we are dealing with a planet here, couldn't they have been, I don't know exiled to the other side of the planet?
Besides another plot hole re: the Son'a is that we are dealing with a planet here, couldn't they have been, I don't know exiled to the other side of the planet?
Wasn't there a line in the movie where the Son'a leader said they weren't content to stay on the planet. They wanted the benefit that the particles they were going to harvest would give them without having to stay there. They wanted to "have their cake and eat it too".
I don't consider the Son'a the good guys in this, no matter whether the Baku had the right to keep their "fountain of youth" to themselves or not. Didn't the Son'a more or less conquer 2 other races to serve them? And they produced ketrecel white for the Jem Hadar during the Dominion War. Plus what the Son'a leader did to the admiral.
Last edited:
It's about Picard rediscovering his love of Latin dance, obviously. The rest is just window dressing.
And (maybe this flew by you) the Baku are a warp-capable civilisation who are not even native to the planet!
Also note that the Baku are the standard beige boring space peasants that are an inescapable trope of TNG, DS9 and VOY.
(I do not dignify the Baku with that superfluous apostrophe. They do not deserve the sci-fi apostrophe.)
Did you at least laugh at the boob joke?
I think you're mistaking NEM for INS, it's the latter that has the weird face-stretching in it, not that it matters all that much as they are basically equally bad.
Similar threads
