I officially began my journey through all Star Trek on October 9th...

[Seven of Five]

But TOS didn't suck at the beginning? Season one is one of the best seasons of Trek out there.
TNG did, and that went through a lot of behind the scenes turmoil. I think season two showed a lot of improvement though.
DS9 I would argue was good by season two, though perhaps to be fair its consistency wasn't totally there until season four.
VOY, I'm finding was actually promising early on, then gradually got worse, until late season three. Inconsistent throughout, really.
ENT I totally agree with, with fatigue set in amongst the writing staff. Season three, with a new direction, at least tried something new.

 

[locutus101]

But TOS didn't suck at the beginning? Season one is one of the best seasons of Trek out there.
TNG did, and that went through a lot of behind the scenes turmoil. I think season two showed a lot of improvement though.
DS9 I would argue was good by season two, though perhaps to be fair its consistency wasn't totally there until season four.
VOY, I'm finding was actually promising early on, then gradually got worse, until late season three. Inconsistent throughout, really.
ENT I totally agree with, with fatigue set in amongst the writing staff. Season three, with a new direction, at least tried something new.

Well, four out of five isn't bad.

 

[Seven of Five]

I suppose so.

I think I tarred your post with things I've read over the years from other people who say all the shows didn't get good until season three or four. I just find it a weird thing to say as they all varied, and for different reasons.

 

[locutus101]

I suppose so.

I think I tarred your post with things I've read over the years from other people who say all the shows didn't get good until season three or four. I just find it a weird thing to say as they all varied, and for different reasons.

Well, I kept it vague, I said at their beginning, which could mean anything from two or three episodes to two or three seasons.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I absolutely agree. Couldn't have said it better. Although, I do think DS9 does have some great standalone episodes, even if a lot of them are building on the Dominion arc or might be similar to one another. I might not be at the point you're talking about yet though.

Yeah, for the back half of Season 7 they got permission to go full serialized. There is no reset between episodes. Where things are at the end of episode A is where they pick up on at the beginning of episode B. They have done this a little bit up to that point. Far more than other Trek shows. But season 7 they go full bore. It's great tv and fantastic stories. But you remember the stories and the story beats. What episode they occurred in sorta gets blurred. DS9 structured for binge watching before binge watching was a thing.

The Q episodes in VOY feel like the Mirror Universe episodes in DS9.

A little gimmicky.

The Q and the Grey is generally viewed as a particularly low, low point for Q episodes. Which is a shame. John Delancy and Kate Mulgrew were very close real life family friends. They have great rapport on screen. It's a shame outside of Death Wish they were never given a story or dialog to really let that shine.

And yeah, the Voyager writers had a huge problem with Q. He was wildly popular, so they were editorially mandated to do something with him. But by his nature he could snap his fingers and solve the core problem of the show. He could send them home in a blink. Trying not to do that led to that same "mirror universe filler" stuff from DS9.

 

[locutus101]

Yeah, for the back half of Season 7 they got permission to go full serialized. There is no reset between episodes. Where things are at the end of episode A is where they pick up on at the beginning of episode B. They have done this a little bit up to that point. Far more than other Trek shows. But season 7 they go full bore. It's great tv and fantastic stories. But you remember the stories and the story beats. What episode they occurred in sorta gets blurred. DS9 structured for binge watching before binge watching was a thing.



The Q and the Grey is generally viewed as a particularly low, low point for Q episodes. Which is a shame. John Delancy and Kate Mulgrew were very close real life family friends. They have great rapport on screen. It's a shame outside of Death Wish they were never given a story or dialog to really let that shine.

And yeah, the Voyager writers had a huge problem with Q. He was wildly popular, so they were editorially mandated to do something with him. But by his nature he could snap his fingers and solve the core problem of the show. He could send them home in a blink. Trying not to do that led to that same "mirror universe filler" stuff from DS9.

I think they overdid the Q stories. It was an OK idea when presented and they did a couple of great episodes with it like Tapestry for example. But they really went overboard on Voyager. De Lancie is a talented actor but I am sure they could have given him other stuff to do, like playing an alien with heavy make up for example.

 

[locutus101]

There's nothing Brannon Braga loves more than viruses/alien entities taking over the ship

Like Macro-viruses and space-pitcher plants for example.

 

[locutus101]

Like @Griffeytrek said, it's a bit strange as, while Mulgrew and De Lancie have great chemistry, why can't Q just send them back to Earth? I'd marry Q if it meant 150 crew members could get back home in three years rather than 75

I think All Good Things was a fine farewell and could've been Q's last appearance. I can't remember if it was explained with a throwaway line or not in Death Wish, but you can see he's visibly aged since Encounter at Farpoint, so it's turning into a bit of a Data situation where you start asking yourself "why is he getting fat and old when he's supposed to be immortal?".

Well, Bashir noticed that Data's hair is supposed to grow, so maybe it's true of his belly as well.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

With Q it's not so much a problem as he can appear anyway he wants.
I think after his q-scepades with the Enterprise crew he has grown up more into a respected member of the continuum and maybe wants to reflect that in his appearance.

 

[The Old Mixer]

why can't Q just send them back to Earth?

Q's whole schtick is that he's interested in humanity because of their potential. He's not interested in solving our heroes' problems for them, he wants to see them do it.

 

[wayoung]

When it comes to unaging immortals, nothing beats a middle aged Christopher Lambert pretending to be 18 years old for two decades. Dude looked like a senior citizen in his 40's.

 

[locutus101]

When it comes to unaging immortals, nothing beats a middle aged Christopher Lambert pretending to be 18 years old for two decades. Dude looked like a senior citizen in his 40's.

Good point!

How about that senior citizen terminator?

 

[Starbreaker]

Voyager never reaches dark and desperate in any meaningful since. I think the show was at its best in Seasons 4 and 6. Five has a few standouts.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It's definitely a turning point...whether or not you think that what it leads into is an improvement will prove to be another matter. I'm one of those who tends to not be fond of what followed.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Season 3 is easily Voyagers weakest. What good is in it is entirely back loaded in the last 6 episodes. But the viewer may risk falling into a catatonic state before getting there.

Those last 6 do have a few very good episodes however.

 

[Griffeytrek]

It's definitely a turning point...whether or not you think that what it leads into is an improvement will prove to be another matter. I'm one of those who tends to not be fond of what followed.

Yeah. Scorpion changes the status quo. In a few ways. It really is comparable to Way of the Warrior over on DS9. Where things went after Scorpion is a matter of much debate. Personally I have never been a huge Jeri Ryan fan. Although she is better than the networks "Mark II" model T'pol.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Now you seem to have come into Trek with some foreknowledge of its content, @Shalashaska ...I'm curious if you already know what "Scorpion" brings to the show, in general terms (in which case the rest of us could stop dancing around it).

it's definitely not the dark and desperate voyage home I hoped for

I can tell you this much...don't expect any improvements on this front.

 

[Seven of Five]

Death Wish is one of my favourite episodes of Voyager. I just rewatched it earlier. However, they shouldn't have bothered again as the other shows were tired.

After the rewatch I did wonder about whether Q should have been in a film with the TNG crew, and stayed away from VOY.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Cause and Effect + The Next Phase + Frame of Mind = Coda

Pretty much. That is why Voyager really has a reputation for feeling like they kept recycling the same core "trek" type stories. Bergman was so focused on staying true to some imagined authentic Star Trek type story requirement, that he had them stop telling fun, imaginative or unique stories. Or rather he slowly beat the tendency out of the writing staff. I suspect that it required so much effort for the Voyager writers room to sneak, ramrod or con a truly new idea past Berman, that they rarely bothered to try. Hence Threshold and yet more idiotic time loops.

Whereas over on the red headed step child show, DS9, the inmates were running the asylum, to the betterment of all.

Granted I shouldn't be quite so harsh on Berman, it wasn't solely him. Voyager and Enterprise also faced meddling Network overlords. Typically short of vision and dim of thought.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Jeri Ryan joins the show around then, and I believe the Borg have something to do with it. I know not much else.

Ah, OK...so do you know the name of Jeri Ryan's character? A common complain among people like me don't like that development is that it became The [Name of Jeri Ryan's Character] Show.