I officially began my journey through all Star Trek on October 9th...

[Forbin]

Yeah, I think he gets far less bland and much more assertive as it goes along. But that loving father aspect never changes, which is great.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

If you like the father-son dynamic between the Siskos, wait till The Visitor and prepare to cry your eyes out.
To this day my favourite DS9 episode.

 

[Tracy Trek]

I love the father and son dynamic between them in DS9.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Nice.

The father-son aspect of the show is one of the parts I like most actually. "Gunsmoke in space" as it was originally envisioned, Jake is cool with me.

Jake is possibly the best example in Star Trek of a kid character done right. He isn't there to be some sort of bizarre audience POV character. He is there solely to inform who and what Sisco is. To give depth to the main character. And it. Works wonderfully. Cirrocumulus Loften comes off as genuine. And his relationship with Avery Brooks Sisco is one of the best in all of Trek. Set extra time aside when you make it to "The Visitor". As soon as you are done you will go back and watch it again.

Coming in as a close runner up for best kid is Nog. Who does however take the prize for having the broadest and most developed character arc of any Star Trek character. (Fun game. Once you start on Voyager. Pay attention to Harry Kim. Note where he starts off. Compare him to how we meet Nog. Then compare the two at the end of their respective series. It's really quite astounding.)

 

[The Old Mixer]

"Gunsmoke in space" as it was originally envisioned

The Rifleman in space, actually.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The article talks more about his rifle than his son, but the heart of the show was the father/son relationship between Lucas and Mark. If you're ever interested, AMC plays blocks of the show on Saturday mornings (varying in length depending on their movie schedule).

 

[RAMA]

The irony of the comments here of Sisko only being interesting if he's "badass" or looks "badass" as a stereotypical violent black male instead of the thoughtful father who suffers the loss of his wife and has to rebuild on an alien space station can't be lost on everyone.

RAMA

 

[Forbin]

Oh for the love of...

Everybody stand back - professional politically correct offense-seeker on duty!

 

[Forbin]

Perhaps people just prefer badass leading men, regardless of their ethnicity. You're the first person the bring up race as a perceived negative.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Does his character change throughout the series? I don't mind Sisko, I quite like him actually, but I want that bald-headed goatee-rocking badass!

Sisco changes a great deal throughout the series. Not to spoil anything, but he gets put through a lot. And unlike other Trek Shows, DS9 quickly develops week to week continuity. This has impact and allows growth. Cisco gets better fleshed out. We joke, but no he is never quite Hawk. Bad we do get more than a bit of Hawk's badassery, tempered with Father Cisco's Compasssion and Wisdom. Not to mention the Bajoran Holy Mumbo Jumbo.

And I shouldn't just highlight Sisco. Many of the characters change and grow and experience deep, believable arcs. But Sisco is in many ways the center of it all.

 

[Longinus]

S I S K O

No 'C' in there. (Sorry, I had to do this, bugs me that people constantly misspell his name.)

Fun fact: 'Sisko' means 'sister' in Finnish.

 

[JesterFace]

You mean captain Cizco?

That Penyamin Cizco?

That typo has been jumping out for me because I'm Finnish and it really means 'sister', so maybe that's why I always notice it.

 

[RAMA]

Gambit has some issues too, BUT...I really like the patented Trek ending and it's meant to be kind of a fun romp.

You guys didn't lie when you said season 7 of TNG was rough. I'm only three episodes in, but yeah, I see what you mean. A two-parter's up next though, Gambit, and they're usually pretty good. We'll see how it goes.

I'm really enjoying DS9 so far. Went in with low expectations for a rough first few seasons, but I feel season 2 has been great so far, with a nice three-parter to open the season. And god damn, it's so different from TNG. With TNG, it's always fun to watch how Picard and his crew would creatively get out of a jam. But with DS9, I'm growing attached to these characters. It's much more focused on these people and the stories of their lives. It's not about solving mysteries or uncovering cool things. It's just about life.

Unlike the first season of TNG, it feels like there's a bunch of episodes in the first season of DS9 that, if missed, could impact your watching of later seasons. Lots of expository stuff and introductions of new themes and plots.

After watching episode #3 of the second season though... it seems much better than it was before. Sisko got snark, Dax got an attitude and the whole ensemble got badass. It feels like Kira has changed so much since Emissary. Hated her in the first episode, now I like that crazy Bajoran. Quark steals every scene he's in, always has, always will. Love that Ferengi.

And Vedek Winn? Oh boy, she's a sly old bitch that one. Please tell me she's killed off early in the show (jk don't spoil or I'll kill you)? She is too good at being unlikeable.

P. S. I want to marry Jadzia Dax.

 

[RAMA]

Perhaps people just prefer badass leading men, regardless of their ethnicity. You're the first person the bring up race as a perceived negative.

If the shoe fits, then wear it.

It's one thing to say: I like badass leading men, it's another to say Sisko isn't badass till he replicated the guise of a stereotypically badass look and demeanor of a stereotypically black character.

RAMA

 

[Griffeytrek]

You guys didn't lie when you said season 7 of TNG was rough. I'm only three episodes in, but yeah, I see what you mean. A two-parter's up next though, Gambit, and they're usually pretty good. We'll see how it goes.

I'm really enjoying DS9 so far. Went in with low expectations for a rough first few seasons, but I feel season 2 has been great so far, with a nice three-parter to open the season. And god damn, it's so different from TNG. With TNG, it's always fun to watch how Picard and his crew would creatively get out of a jam. But with DS9, I'm growing attached to these characters. It's much more focused on these people and the stories of their lives. It's not about solving mysteries or uncovering cool things. It's just about life.

Unlike the first season of TNG, it feels like there's a bunch of episodes in the first season of DS9 that, if missed, could impact your watching of later seasons. Lots of expository stuff and introductions of new themes and plots.

After watching episode #3 of the second season though... it seems much better than it was before. Sisko got snark, Dax got an attitude and the whole ensemble got badass. It feels like Kira has changed so much since Emissary. Hated her in the first episode, now I like that crazy Bajoran. Quark steals every scene he's in, always has, always will. Love that Ferengi.

And Vedek Winn? Oh boy, she's a sly old bitch that one. Please tell me she's killed off early in the show (jk don't spoil or I'll kill you)? She is too good at being unlikeable.

P. S. I want to marry Jadzia Dax.

ROFL. It is great to see your reaction to DS9. Re TNG, there are actually a few really good really different episodes scattered in Season 7. Watch for The Pegasus, Lower Decks, and of course All Good Things (set some special time aside for that one. It remains a franchise high point), otherwise the general watchword for TNG Season 7 was "they seemed to be running out of ideas, and had no idea where to take the characters." The back half has some one off and sideways tie ins to DS9 plot lines, and does some setup for Voyager. And as a general rule is a bit infuriating.

And yes as you see DS9 is much more a character show than it is an exploration one. It gets better the more they come to realize this. Some of the first season episodes felt a little like recycled TNG stories, just with the setting changed. By season 2 that has mostly faded. Most of season 2 is solid, but only a few really stand out in the overall series. "Whispers" begins the DS9 writers tradition of "lets really F with O'Brien". Something that they did as a challenge at least once a season. They get brutal and mean over the years. But give some great episodes. "Rules of Acquisition" and "The Alternate" while ok epsiodes by themselves, provide the starting points for some major plot threads going forward. "Blood Oath" is just a joy for classic fans. The Maqui 2 parter is a must see. And then there is "The Jem'Hadar", which dials things up to 11 for the next 5 years. (If you want to drive yourself into a frenzy. After watching the season ending The Jem'Hadar, watch just the opening teaser, the pre credits bit, of the next episode, The Search Part 1. And stop there for a break.)

 

[Griffeytrek]

You know, I was thinking of setting a day aside to do a short top 5 marathon of TNG episodes before tackling the finale later that night, which could get emotional.

I didn't necessarily pick the five best episodes (although it's no coincidence some of them are top 5 material), I just tried to pick five episodes that properly expressed the evolution of TNG over the years, and I have these picked out for now:

1. Encounter at Farpoint - The introduction to the series, the first time we meet these characters. It's necessary.

2. Measure of a Man - A diamond in the rough. Not only one of the best episodes in the series, but a good indication of what is yet to come in this show.

3. Yesterday's Enterprise - This is, by many, considered the episode that finally got things going. The episode when things changed for good, and TNG hit its prime full force.

4. The Best of Both Worlds - TNG in its prime. A two-parter episode full of action and mystery with a cliffhanger ending that had never been seen before in Star Trek. A real classic, and IMO, the most memorable episode of the series. If you weren't on the TNG bandwagon by now, you were too late.

5. The Inner Light - TNG at its peak, it doesn't get any better than this. After the glorious action-filled episode in The Best of Both Worlds, we get a smaller, more emotional story. Quite possibly my favourite episode in the franchise, and a great lead-in to the finale. Not only a superb Star Trek story, but a wonderful story, period.

Do you think I should swap out one episode for another? Or maybe change the order around?

Those look perfect to me. While Encounter at Farpoint seems very jarring looking back at it, and it doesn't hold up well against the wonderful stuff that came after it. It is the beginning. The only other episode I might consider rotating in there is Darmok. It's probably also a remarkably good idea to put some mental separation between the last third of season 7 and All Good Things. Padding it with a marathon of actual really really good TNG episodes is a brilliant plan. The alternative involves bathtub brewed gin and an assortment of recreational pharmaceuticals that are likely not legal in your locale. (I wish I was joking about this, but be warned. "Massaka is Waking" and you really wish he wouldn't.) Oh and a quick note regarding the second to last episode. "Preemptive Strike". This episode ties into both the DS9 2 parter "The Maquis" and it serves as a bit of setup for Voyager. It's also a fairly good episode.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I just thought he was great from the few clips I'd seen of him as Hawk, and would like to see some of that in Sisko. He just feels somewhat unnatural trying to play the pacifist diplomat.

Keep going! Trust Us on this one. The Absolute Last Description anyone will ever use to describe Sisko is "Pacifist Diplomat". Just wait until you hit "In the Pale Moonlight"

 

[Tracy Trek]

The only other episode I might consider rotating in there is Darmok.

Oh and a quick note regarding the second to last episode. "Preemptive Strike". This episode ties into both the DS9 2 parter "The Maquis" and it serves as a bit of setup for Voyager. It's also a fairly good episode.

I think Darmok is a good one to include in a top 5. It is one that I think really captures the best of Trek ideals.

I would say both Journey's End and Preemptive Strike lead in to DS9's The Maquis 2 parter and to Voyager.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I think Darmok is a good one to include in a top 5. It is one that I think really captures the best of Trek ideals.

I would say both Journey's End and Preemptive Strike lead in to DS9's The Maquis 2 parter and to Voyager.

Ugh! Sadly yes Journey's End is critical for the beginning of Voyager... It's just we really really try to never ever talk about Journey's End. Ugh! Now I'm remembering it. I need a drink...

if I remember correctly Preemptive Strike was originally intended to run concurrently with The Maquis 2 parter. And possibly have a guest star one way or the other? There was supposed to be a clear connection where they were to share a broadcast week. But Syndication Scheduling messed them up.

 

[JesterFace]

'Darmok' is good until Riker's log entry towards the end of the episode, among other things it includes:

"Despite the risk or WAR, we have to try to get the Captain back" or something like that...

 

[Griffeytrek]

I love Darmok, but I don't think I'd want to replace anything in my top 5 with it. It's definitely a better episode than the pilot, but I think the pilot is a good one if you're showing someone five episodes summing up this series, even if it's pretty bad and awkward in itself.

Darmok's a great episode, no doubt, but I don't think it's mandatory.

If you are looking for "franchise defining" episodes that are both great and give a real good feel for what the show is all about then you are also in luck as you also have 3 likely candidates looming for any future such list. The Pegasus (If you have watched Enterprise, this is the episode referenced in the last episode of that show. Please don't hold that against this one.) Lower Decks, and of course All Good Things itself. And yeah thinking on it, watching Encounter at Farpoint shortly before All Good Things is a really good thing to do.