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I like Star Trek V

I really enjoyed this movie. the K/S/M moments are spot on and the rest of the crew are in the background...just the way it should be. The production values are quite frankly shit and the secondary cast are woefully misused but for some reason i like it. The core trio feels like the series and so do the sfx and sets ;) The story is outlandish just like the series but it works for me. This used to be the one ST movie i hated, but thanks to the Next Gen crew and the passage of time it now rests in the middle. I actually enjoy this move more than Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country simply because the obvious commentary and message of those movies are horribly dated and inexorably linked to the specific points in history that they were referring to. Not to say that they are bad movies, just really linked to the time in which they were made. And of course the less said about Next Gen movies not called First Contact and part of Generations the better.
 
I like it how TFF plays very much like a TOS episode, except with very large ambitions. The problem is that the film's budget apparently couldn't accomodate that vision. Otherwise, the film didn't do much wrong in my eyes. I still find the moments between Kirk, Spock and McCoy to be among the best and most heart-warming ever. The arrival at Sha Ka Ree is very true to the "where no man has gone before" premise of Star Trek, and it feels like discovering something awesome... much helped by the excellent score for this sequence. "God", I can't help myself, is chilling, especially when he takes Sybok's appearance. And I also need to praise Laurence Luckinbill's performance as Sybok here. In his last moments, you can see that he was not a madman, or a terrorist, just a believer, who gave up everything he had to find that which he believed would wait for him behind the Great Barrier. And now he realizes that te bad things he did were all for nothing, that he was duped. You can see shades of denial, shame, anger, sadness and simply heartbreak in his face as he confronts "God". Amazing performance.

There's a moment near the climax of the film when you really wonder if they were bold enough to say: Yes, in this film, our characters truly find God out in space. It would just fit with some of the things they did on the original show: Finding Abraham Lincoln (or something like him) in space, parallel Earths, or Alice in Wonderland. TOS never shied away from the outlandish and in the process managed to make space feel truly wondrous, a place where anything is possible. A reason for why I still find TOS to be the most exhilarating and exciting of the Trek series. But the resolution of it being a malevolent being that wants to be set free is also very TOS in its humanist statement that God is an idea that cannot be captured (and thus wouldn't need a starship!).... and an ideal as well. God is in the human heart, Kirk says. That agrees with TOS's stance on omnipotent beings as seen in Who Mourns For Adonais?, The Squire of Gothos and other episodes. The people of the 23rd century don't need a higher being to tell them what to do, because they know their purpose already. They don't need it as an explanation for the unknown, because they are intent on seeking out the unknown as a way of life, to understand it. Any being thus demanding to be worshipped acts out of selfish desire, not for the good of its "subjects". TFF confirms this again.

All of which leads me to hypothesize that you need to deeply love TOS, warts and all, in order to like TFF. Because if you do, you will be able to overlook the (mostly) horrible effects and the (sorry, Mr. Shatner) occasionally awkward directing job and might see that this story actually moves at a good clip, has lots of heart, and a grand, very Trekkian idea at its core.

The reason it got its bad reputation in 1989 is, I think, that, truth be told, it isn't quite as good as the other TOS movies - for reasons of production values, a rushed schedule, a director who overreached. But if you compare it to the TNG movies from today's perspective, one should go a little easier on it. Because those newer films showed us that you can do worse and, especially, less cinematic, less ambitious and less heartfelt Star Trek than TFF offered.
 
Wow, Eddie. That's wonderfully eloquent and articulate, and completely captures my feelings about this admittedly flawed movie which I still love and enjoy. Well done!
 
Call me crazy, but I like Star Trek V.

Call it a guilty pleasure. I admit that a great deal of the movie is awful. The scenes with taking over the Enterprise and the stuff on Nimbus III is pretty terrible. Uhura's dance, we won't even go there. Same with Uhura and Scotty. A lot of the humor is forced. The scenes in the turbolift with the dozens and dozens of decks is ridiculous.

BUT, some scenes are just absolute gems. The scene with McCoy, Spock, and Kirk discussing their 'pain' with Sybok is as close to the Trek ideal as you get in a TOS movie. I actually kind of like the idea of an alien pretending to be God, which raises the question of who put the barrier there. I like the scene at the end, classic Kirk/Spock/McCoy reflection on what they've learned and why humans can be hopeful (not the row your boat end, but the end on the ship when they're looking over the planet and discussing the loss of Sybok). The chemistry between Kirk Spock and McCoy is as good as it ever is. I think the denoument is actually fairly decent sci-fi, maybe not terribly well executed, but still the spirit of it is right. And the score is among my favorite Star Trek music of all. I feel like a lot of the plot sort of has the right idea and if it had a few more rewrites would have been awesome (kind of like The Omega Glory- the ending is absurd but the first 75% is awesome and a few lines establishing they were from Earth could have fixed the end).

So I admit, the effects are bad, much of the movie is just silly, and it doesn't have quite the energy that the other movies do, and it's probably my least favorite of all the movies except Insurrection, but I feel like at the end of the day it still has that Star Trek spirit that we all look for; it just feels right to me. Thoughts?

I love V...and I think GENERATIONS is by far the best TNG movie..

Rob
 
With great action & FX to complement the great big 3 character bits it could have rivaled TWOK--I'm not kidding.

Cut the 'comic' crap out & the 'Ent doesn't work' crap and add some decent action bits throughout and a decent climax and you'd have had a great movie. A stand-alone action 'episode' with lots of location shooting.

'Location' episodes always feel more satifying. Some good hand to hand action, a nice ship battle and a approprately splashy ending and it would have been great.

But it doesn't have much more than some nice big 3 character bits as it stands.
 
I just rewatched this movie for the first time in years. Despite bad special effects, the film has aged well. I really enjoyed it. Back when it was released I thought the film would have been better as a Die Hard in space story, with the first half kept relatively intact, but the second half depicting Kirk's struggle to regain his starship. That would have been a better action movie, but it would have ripped out the heart of the movie. Bad effects aside, this film reaches farther than almost any other Trek feature, and as others have noted, recaptures the spirit of the original series better than any movie to date. Heck, it even has a teaser before the opening titles!

Fix the sloppy confrontation at the end between Kirk and God (everything between the photon torpedo strike and the appearance of the Bird of Prey comes out garbled and looks really bad), and maybe put Shatner's original concept for a "Powers of Ten" shot pulling out from Nimbus III, soaring through space, then zooming into Kirk climbing El Capitan during the opening titles, and this movie would be fine.
 
A lot of the movie was not what Shatner wrote himself and intended it to be. Paramount hired another writer to put in all those so called jokes and funnies that turned out to be quite rediculous. Shatner's version did not have McCoy doing all that drinking and cussing and no implied relationship between Scotty and Uhura. Jay from Bring Back Kirk was working on redoing the special effects and film, putting it back to the way Shatner originally wrote it but I don't know what became of the project.
 
but it makes Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and the entire crew seem just ridiculusly weak. Sybok uses no mind control, yet they completely betray their Captain.

On the contrary, I always thought Sybok was pulling a Vulcan Mind Trick on his 'followers'. Remember when Spock would remotely put suggestions in a guard's head to make them think he captives were escaping in TOS?

Sneaky telepaths.
 
but it makes Sulu, Uhura, Chekov and the entire crew seem just ridiculusly weak. Sybok uses no mind control, yet they completely betray their Captain.

On the contrary, I always thought Sybok was pulling a Vulcan Mind Trick on his 'followers'. Remember when Spock would remotely put suggestions in a guard's head to make them think he captives were escaping in TOS?

Sneaky telepaths.

That was my take on it too - I never felt they were too weak. Indeed, brainwashed bridge crew happened once or twice on TOS.

I thought the whole 'let me share your pain' bit was psychic brainwashing. Kirk didn't actually go through with it, but I imagine if he did, he would have been sucked in too. Spock, of course, is a Vulcan.
 
A lot of the movie was not what Shatner wrote himself and intended it to be. Paramount hired another writer to put in all those so called jokes and funnies that turned out to be quite rediculous. Shatner's version did not have McCoy doing all that drinking and cussing and no implied relationship between Scotty and Uhura. Jay from Bring Back Kirk was working on redoing the special effects and film, putting it back to the way Shatner originally wrote it but I don't know what became of the project.

Do you know where there's a link to the original Shatner version? I'd love to give it a read.
 
A lot of the movie was not what Shatner wrote himself and intended it to be. Paramount hired another writer to put in all those so called jokes and funnies that turned out to be quite rediculous. Shatner's version did not have McCoy doing all that drinking and cussing and no implied relationship between Scotty and Uhura. Jay from Bring Back Kirk was working on redoing the special effects and film, putting it back to the way Shatner originally wrote it but I don't know what became of the project.

Do you know where there's a link to the original Shatner version? I'd love to give it a read.

My understanding was that Shatner dictated his story outline (AN ACT OF LOVE) and it was printed and circulated around Paramount, but never went anywhere else. It is summarized in that making of trek 5 book.
 
Jay from Bring Back Kirk was working on redoing the special effects and film, putting it back to the way Shatner originally wrote it but I don't know what became of the project.


Do not know for sure, but my guess would be 90% completed.
 
A lot of the movie was not what Shatner wrote himself and intended it to be. Paramount hired another writer to put in all those so called jokes and funnies that turned out to be quite rediculous. Shatner's version did not have McCoy doing all that drinking and cussing and no implied relationship between Scotty and Uhura. Jay from Bring Back Kirk was working on redoing the special effects and film, putting it back to the way Shatner originally wrote it but I don't know what became of the project.

Do you know where there's a link to the original Shatner version? I'd love to give it a read.

Try this:

http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/st5bh.html
 
That's a really interesting read. At the same time, I think TFF as it exists is far better than the original treatment.

The changes to the Sybok character would have tremendously undermined him, I think--I wouldn't mind getting rid of his blood relationship to Spock, but the character himself is perfect for his dramatic role. He was much better, and much more effective, as a charismatic cult leader, not the obviously evil zealot they wanted "Zar" to be. Sure, he brainwashed people, but this was more subtle than it might have otherwise been. I actually thought Sybok was an excellent avatar of real religious leaders--they're more dangerous when they do believe.

Also, rock monsters would not have helped the end of the film at all.

I still insist that the only things that really held TFF back was the budget and a couple of scenes that people just can't stand. In terms of content, it might be amongst the most thoughtful Trek stories ever made.
 
I still insist that the only things that really held TFF back was the budget and a couple of scenes that people just can't stand. In terms of content, it might be amongst the most thoughtful Trek stories ever made.

That very well may be why so many people dislike it with such vitrol - because it held so much potential and fell far short.
 
Maybe I'm deluded, but I don't think it did fall all that short. It has its flaws, but to my eye nothing fatal.
 
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