I don't understand the hate Disco gets / still gets.

[gvn2fly]

I love Star Trek, and I want it to be something I personally enjoy. That's basically it for me. I don't give a rat's ass about continuity, honoring this or that, etc. etc. etc. I like starships, phasers, Vulcans, transporters and Klingons. I could care less about how dark the bridge is, what the uniforms look like, the design of the communicators, the opening music, serialized vs. episodic, Roddenberry's Vision, starship design, the font used in the title sequence, alien makeup etc etc etc. I just don't give a shit.

This is how I feel as well to some extent (and I'm a fan of all the new shows), but I do care about continuity a bit more but don't care about things from the 60s being ignored/retconned/visually updated. My introduction to Trek was different and later than yours (mine was in the late 80s), but also some of my earliest childhood memories are of watching TOS/TNG. I think I was in 6th grade when I got into DS9 through syndication reruns of the first 4 seasons (and started watching season 5 as it aired) and I absolutely loved it. It remains by far my favorite Trek series. I loved how it was still Star Trek but so different from TNG and TOS. I didn't like Voyager and ENT as much because they felt like they were trying to copy the same TNG type formula rather than moving in new directions.

I've seen some people say about Disco and PIC that they don't like them because they don't "feel" like Trek. I've even seen some say they are good shows and would like them but don't because they don't "feel" like Trek. This latter point doesn't make sense to me. If I enjoy something I enjoy it. It doesn't have to feel like a certain thing of the past to be good. Being different doesn't make it good or bad and neither does being the same. I think one of the current Trek execs made a comment about how Star Trek can be many different things or doesn't have to just be one thing. I agree with that - doesn't mean it will always work though. I also feel like some of the fans look at the old shows through rose colored lenses probably due to nostalgia. Yes, they are great shows and I do think that none of the new shows have consistently reached the peaks of TNG/DS9 - but they weren't perfect either. I find the new shows actually more consistent. The highs aren't as high but the lows aren't as bad either.

 

[fireproof78]

I also had a reasonable childhood and was a normal, well-adjusted kid with great friends and a balance of social / athletic activities. I was very, very fortunate in that regard.

All that is to say that none of this affects my opinions on the "latest versions" of Star Trek from a nostalgia or bias standpoint in a negative way. I love Star Trek, and I want it to be something I personally enjoy. That's basically it for me. I don't give a rat's ass about continuity, honoring this or that, etc. etc. etc. I like starships, phasers, Vulcans, transporters and Klingons. I could care less about how dark the bridge is, what the uniforms look like, the design of the communicators, the opening music, serialized vs. episodic, Roddenberry's Vision, starship design, the font used in the title sequence, alien makeup etc etc etc. I just don't give a shit.

Exactly. Nothing in Trek requires honoring this or that. It's entertainment and I find a lot more entertainment in recent Trek than

Fucking show off with your normal upbringing and social skills!

This is about as reasoned and well written a take on things as I think you can find.

The key here is that you aren't tearing down one thing to build another up and that is, in my opinion, how discourse should be.

Too often though - and I blame the Twitterification of discussion - opinions need to be shouted at 1000% and if one thing is good another must be "pyar shite".

It isn't a zero sum game and I think many forget there

Completely agree. My experience with Trek was change. Hell, my favorite movie is all about change (The Undiscovered Country). Change is not a four letter word to be feared.

 

[Vger23]

Exactly. Nothing in Trek requires honoring this or that. It's entertainment and I find a lot more entertainment in recent Trek than

Completely agree. My experience with Trek was change. Hell, my favorite movie is all about change (The Undiscovered Country). Change is not a four letter word to be feared.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Mr. Mackey: Disco is bad. M'kay. Why? You shouldn't watch Disco. Because Disco is bad.

 

[shapeshifter]

Because I don't get why they devote time to something they reportedly hate. Instead of practicing what Trek preaches they have to revisit old wounds time and again. That's not just hating-that's threatening to hold your breath until you get your way style tantrum. It is a behavior that I struggle to find the purpose behind.

It's confusing, to say the least.

HINT: You'll never get the answers you seek. The same crap has been going on ever since I first joined ST.COM back in 2002/3 about Enterprise. Then AbramsTrek. Then Kurtzman Trek. It. Never. Ends.

 

[fireproof78]

HINT: You'll never get the answers you seek. The same crap has been going on ever since I first joined ST.COM back in 2002/3 about Enterprise. Then AbramsTrek. Then Kurtzman Trek. It. Never. Ends.

Sad but true.

But, despite that I still will seek answers regardless. It's just my optimistic hope to one day get it.

 

[Charles Phipps]

To give some fair criticisms to DISCOVERY from someone who actually does love the show:

1. The show's "mass teleportation ship" is something that radically changes the nature of travel in the setting and is apparently technology that has existed for 200 years.
2. The fact that it depends on traveling through a network of fungus that covers all of time and space seems more like Space MagicTM than anything Q has ever done. Since, well, you need water and nutrients for plant life that space famously does not possess.
3. The Klingon re-designs are just butt ugly. Even I agree about that.
4. The show can't stick to a personality for Burnham who has all of Janeway's issues multipled by 20 in terms of jumping around. She's stoic! She's passionate! She's traumatized! She's idealist! She's a maverick! She's the rules abiding Star Fleet officer! She's not! Burnham's characterization changes constantly.
5. Tilly swearing. No matter how adorable she is.
6. The obvious mid-season rewrite to the show with the Mirror Universe where it was fairly clear they were going a different direction but then the Klingon Civil War completely gets dropped.
7. Lorca's "reveal" soured a lot of people because Gabrielle Lorca as a Starfleet maverick who is slightly more ruthless than the majority of his peers but not EVIL but something many of the fans genuinely liked.
8. The retconning of Mudd from harmless con man to genuine terrorist.
9. The Empress character being divisive since a lot of fans basically thought it would be Captain Kirk and Spock travelling around with Caligula or Hitler. Oh that Georgiou!
10. Section 31 is always controversial and making it something that Starfleet once had as a legitimate military arm bothers many.
11. Burnham's mother being the inventor of time travel and a literal messianic religious figure.
12. Speaking of which, the Burnham Spock connection because it doesn't actually make either character more interesting. If Burnham had been the daughter of ANY Vulcan, James Fran and it would have been interesting enough. Too much spice spoils the taste.
13. The habit of killing characters that fans were interested in like the Admiral, T'Kuvma, Voq, and others.

 

[fireproof78]

The habit of killing characters that fans were interested in like the Admiral, T'Kuvma, Voq, and others.

While I disagree with many, this one sticks out. It was something I really wished Discovery had gone full in to with no one being safe. I wanted space to feel dangerous, something akin to Yar's death but a bit more organized. But, instead, they played it safe, letting the mains survive and ancillary's die.

Disappointing on that front.

 

[Charles Phipps]

While I disagree with many, this one sticks out. It was something I really wished Discovery had gone full in to with no one being safe. I wanted space to feel dangerous, something akin to Yar's death but a bit more organized. But, instead, they played it safe, letting the mains survive and ancillary's die.

Disappointing on that front.

I don't mind space being dangerous but I think the problem was all the characters they killed were actually quite interesting and could have been better explored. T'Kuvma, in particular, was someone who could have possibly shown the dark side of Klingon mysticism and religion.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't mind space being dangerous but I think the problem was all the characters they killed were actually quite interesting and could have been better explored. T'Kuvma, in particular, was someone who could have possibly shown the dark side of Klingon mysticism and religion.

That was more BTS trouble with the actor than the character necessarily. But, yes I wanted more spiritual Klingons too. They were one of the best parts of Season 1.

 

[The Wormhole]

The obvious mid-season rewrite to the show with the Mirror Universe where it was fairly clear they were going a different direction

Eh? A trip to the Mirror Universe or another alternate universe was always part of the plan, even going back to when Fuller was first planning things. In fact, the version that aired had this happening later than Fuller wanted, he wanted to go there in the fifth episode.

The habit of killing characters that fans were interested in like the Admiral, T'Kuvma, Voq, and others.

Which Admiral, Cornwell? She died in the season 2 finale, the last episode of the show set in the 23rd century. That was going to be the last time we saw her anyway, since SNW wasn't planned at the time. Might as well kill her and provide closure to the character.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Which Admiral, Cornwell? She died in the season 2 finale, the last episode of the show set in the 23rd century. That was going to be the last time we saw her anyway, since SNW wasn't planned at the time. Might as well kill her and provide closure to the character.

Yeah, it's not part of my hatedom but i was unhappy DISCO moved to the future permanently.

I was hoping it would only be for a season.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, it's not part of my hatedom but i was unhappy DISCO moved to the future permanently.

I was hoping it would only be for a season.

Definitely wouldn't have been my first choice. But, I don't care for time travel, and anything post 26th century is not very appealing.

 

[dupersuper]

Definitely wouldn't have been my first choice. But, I don't care for time travel, and anything post 26th century is not very appealing.

That seems like a random cut off. What's special about the 26th century?

 

[fireproof78]

That seems like a random cut off. What's special about the 26th century?

I don't like it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Fuck those guys in the 26th century in particular

 

[Dee1891]

I really enjoyed "Discovery" during its first season. And although I wasn't thrilled by the presence of Pike and Spock during Season 2, I still tolerated it. But I haven't been a fan of "Discovery" since the series shifted some 900 years into the future. I just didn't care for Seasons Three and Four's writing.

 

[firehawk12]

I really enjoyed "Discovery" during its first season. And although I wasn't thrilled by the presence of Pike and Spock during Season 2, I still tolerated it. But I haven't been a fan of "Discovery" since the series shifted some 900 years into the future. I just didn't care for Seasons Three and Four's writing.

It's interesting because on another board I was surprised to see a divide between people who like the first two seasons and people who like the last two seasons.

I'm in the camp that despised season 1 and barely tolerated season 2, but I think season 4 is amazing by comparison. I'd place it above Enterprise and probably the early seasons of Voyager at the very least. It feels like a course correction for the better to me, from the needless dark plotting of the first two seasons with very little character development. But I also hate the mirror universe as a concept as well, and having two seasons hinge on that idea didn't help either.

 

[fireproof78]

I really enjoyed "Discovery" during its first season. And although I wasn't thrilled by the presence of Pike and Spock during Season 2, I still tolerated it. But I haven't been a fan of "Discovery" since the series shifted some 900 years into the future. I just didn't care for Seasons Three and Four's writing.

I liked Season 3 and 4 very much, especially the writing and character moments. I cannot stand the 900 years in to the future thing. Going that far in to the future just creates temporal headaches that I honestly wished had gone the way of Relativity as the last time we saw time travel. "And, Captain, in the future, try to avoid time travel." Sage advice right there random Relativity crewmember. Too bad no one follows it.

 

[dupersuper]

I liked Season 3 and 4 very much, especially the writing and character moments. I cannot stand the 900 years in to the future thing. Going that far in to the future just creates temporal headaches that I honestly wished had gone the way of Relativity as the last time we saw time travel. "And, Captain, in the future, try to avoid time travel." Sage advice right there random Relativity crewmember. Too bad no one follows it.

I wouldn't mind it if it looked more like 900 years had passed.