I Don't Understand Enterprise Vulcans.

[Saganistheman]

^ I am just trying to put the original question into context. I have only gotten to the 3rd episode of the 3rd season. Guess I should have mentioned that. So, to rephrase my opinion on the Enterprise Vulcans, I only have half the story so far, but it seems to me that the Vulcans prefer caution over a headstrong response to events. When dealing with impulsive and emotionaly lead people (that is a polar opposite of logic based reason) it is easy for me to understand the Vulcans viewpoint rather than empathize with the human viewpoint. The story arc seems to be leading humans away from common regional interest. I might have liked to see humans becoming more involved in the Vulcan/Andorian narrative. If they do no spoilers please

 

[Irishman]

Um, there's an entire arc in ENT that partly explains this.

Um, thnx, um want to be more specific cool guy?

The 3-part Vulcan arc.

^This.

They didn't hide it.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

Perhaps it would help if you could tell us what exactly it is about ENT Vulcans that you find confusing.

If I could tell you exactly what it is about ENT Vulcans that I find confusing, I probably wouldn't be confused...no?

Doctor: "So what is troubling you today?"
Patient: "I don't know. I just don't feel right. Something is off."
Doctor: "Could you be more specific?"
Patient: "No. Not really. SO what is going on?"

Like other responders here, I do not find enough helpful pointers in the OP's question to understand what the perceived 'problem' is.

I think certain fans were troubled when some Enterprise Vulcans were shown to be manipulative, or power-hungry, or aggressive or angry/emotional. This may be the case here.

For me, events & personalities in Enterprise showed Vulcans as not being static, boring, monocultures. It was an unexpected breath of fresh air. For me, this added some dynamics and new interest to Vulcans. Their society and culture was undergoing changes... and there were resulting conflicts. I think many fans preferred to believe that all this had been settled on Vulcan centuries -or millennia- earlier than Archer's era, and this may have angered some fans. I, however, found it an interesting, welcome story of evolution in what had previously been presumed to be a static society. And I don't feel that having these conflicts occur in more recent history spoils anything.

Now if only some of them could discover & adopt a different hairstyle.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

I think the Vulcan/human relations in ENT are very interesting. We see humans struggling to break free of Vulcan's protective guardianship, but given how recently humans had nearly destroyed themselves, I think the Vulcans aren't completely in the wrong to be concerned. The situation had shades of grey that made things more complicated, and more interesting.
We do see a lot of Vulcans being arrogant and xenophobic, but we see this to a lesser degree in TOS too. Vulcans begin to grow into their beliefs during this time.

^ There are some nice points here that I heartily agree with.

 

[F. King Daniel]

What's not to understand? They're revere logic and aspire to something they rarely achieve.

Sounds like just about any religion out there.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^ I am just trying to put the original question into context. I have only gotten to the 3rd episode of the 3rd season. Guess I should have mentioned that. So, to rephrase my opinion on the Enterprise Vulcans, I only have half the story so far, but it seems to me that the Vulcans prefer caution over a headstrong response to events. When dealing with impulsive and emotionaly lead people (that is a polar opposite of logic based reason) it is easy for me to understand the Vulcans viewpoint rather than empathize with the human viewpoint. The story arc seems to be leading humans away from common regional interest. I might have liked to see humans becoming more involved in the Vulcan/Andorian narrative. If they do no spoilers please

In context, even in the first two season, the Vulcans were revealed to be cynical about inter-species/inter-planetary relations, and they were adamant that humans adapt Vulcan practices as a means of preparing themselves for inter-planetary travel. Much of this attitude was the result of Vulcans own actions, particularly with regard to the Andorians. The episodes The Andorian Incident and Cease Fire both show the Vulcans--at least those in the High Command--being inflexible and overly aggressive (Soval admits that the HC dismantled an Andorian colony on a disputed body and removed the population. These conflicts would have turned for the worse if Archer had decided to take Soval and T'Pol's advice, mirroring their attitudes. So the Vulcans really aren't as cautious as they might think they are. The fourth season will, moreover, reveal that a major change in the mentality of Vulcans was about to take place.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I really did not like what happened to the Vulcans in ENTERPRISE. TOS Spock has always been adamant, absolutely adamant that Vulcans were bread to peace, that Surak's logic alone had saved them, and that after the Romulan split, Vulcan society's been relatively stable and unchanged. These creatively bankrupt writers just cannot stand not to screw around with established mythos, by introducing these "fresh" elements of straying Vulcans, whilst having their government run by a Romulan spy.

And making Vulcan girls go through Pon Farr, now it's just an analogy for puberty, isn't it? Which I found to be completely absurd and absolutely hateful. I liked it when only Vulcan Males had to endure it, it gave the species a truly alien quality. Not anymore. I know fans are quick to rationalize these lapses in logic by stating how "just as there are different kinds of Humans, there are different kinds of Vulcans," and whatever else. Rubbish.

Do that and now they're not aliens, anymore, it's just some actor from the American mid-west, with a bad wig and strange-looking prosthetics. I did like going to Vulcan, in these and other episodes, though. Especially when so much of what we see was based, somewhat, on the STAR TREK cartoons. But, it seems, for every one thing Vulcans are allowed to get right in ENTERPRISE, they've got to take three steps back, somewhere else, for it.

 

[borgboy]

As far as I know, we never knew that Vulcan women didn't go thru pon farr. I always assumed they did, and that T'Pring's pon farr just hadn't happened yet. No reason that her pon farr cycle would be in synch with Spock's.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It's extremely presumptuous to believe that people believe the same thing as their ancestors did, that the mentality of the civilization is static and never shifts. My worldview is quite different from people 50 years ago, let alone 100. Moreover, given Trek's track record with monocultures, the diversity and evolution of Vulcan beliefs (along with Bajoran) is quite welcome.

 

[Saganistheman]

And making Vulcan girls go through Pon Farr, now it's just an analogy for puberty, isn't it? Which I found to be completely absurd and absolutely hateful. I liked it when only Vulcan Males had to endure it, it gave the species a truly alien quality. Not anymore. I know fans are quick to rationalize these lapses in logic by stating how "just as there are different kinds of Humans, there are different kinds of Vulcans," and whatever else. Rubbish.

I agree. T'Pol's actions were silly. Her "horny and I don't care where I get it from" attitute missed the mark and does not live up to what I think Roddenberry meant for it to be...but that is just my opinion and is based on TOS Spock's reactions to Nurse Chapel's advances when he was going through it.

 

[Saganistheman]

As far as I know, we never knew that Vulcan women didn't go thru pon farr. I always assumed they did, and that T'Pring's pon farr just hadn't happened yet. No reason that her pon farr cycle would be in synch with Spock's.

Think about it for a second with regards to both genders. If Vulcan males were not matched with other Vulcan females going through this experience at relitively the same (7 year cycle) think about the chaotic planning and disruptions a civilized space-faring society would be going through logistically to accomidate this type of behavior in both genders.

The Vulcans also talk about "mating" not "sex" so mating means pro-creation. T'Pol could not have just gone back to her quarters and solved her own problem. This type of mating drive would have put the Vulcans on a disasterours course of extinction.

 

[jespah]

This is why I write Vulcans with Pon Farr comforters (e. g. a form of sex worker, to tide people over if they're away from home when the instinct strikes. After all, even the best plans can be waylaid - no pun intended - if an engine breaks down, or someone is called away on a diplomatic crisis or whatever).

I suspect it works as a serious drive in order to get committed couples to procreate, but that sex can and does happen at other times, but fertility is absent or suppressed.

 

[gblews]

And making Vulcan girls go through Pon Farr, now it's just an analogy for puberty, isn't it? Which I found to be completely absurd and absolutely hateful. I liked it when only Vulcan Males had to endure it, it gave the species a truly alien quality. Not anymore. I know fans are quick to rationalize these lapses in logic by stating how "just as there are different kinds of Humans, there are different kinds of Vulcans," and whatever else. Rubbish.

I agree. T'Pol's actions were silly. Her "horny and I don't care where I get it from" attitute missed the mark and does not live up to what I think Roddenberry meant for it to be...but that is just my opinion and is based on TOS Spock's reactions to Nurse Chapel's advances when he was going through it.

From what you post here, it is not clear that you agree with the O.P.'s position. The O.P. is railing against Vulcan "girls" going into Pon Farr. Your post seems to be railing against T'Pol's actions after entering Pon Farr. Might want to clarify.

However, as others have mentioned, T'Pol was not in close physical proximity with her selected mate, Kos, so it is not illogical that given enough time, she might seek out others.

What I do find insanely illogical is how Trip, Phlox, or any other male on board could have turned her down.

 

[Saganistheman]

^ the O.P.'s original statement was that he/she did not understand Enterprise Vulcans. Recent posts have tried to examine the whole Pon Farr thing, which has implications far beyond what Roddenberry was thinking. I am only going to examine what Enterprise and TOS have shown us. In TOS Spock is no where near Vulcan when he starts feeling the urge, and reacts violently to nurse Chapel's advances. He shows up on Vulcan with blood fever ready to kill because of it. No where does it say that female Vulcans suffer from this, but no where does it not. Given the information we are led to believe with the evidence given that this only effects males. Now we see that with Enterprise, females are effected as well. Vulcans could have been found to help T'Pol's condition. This option was not even examined. T'Pol was ready to jump on anything male, which really does not make sense, so I am actually agreeing with the O.P., because I don't understand what the writers were thinking either. Granted Spock was half-human, but I would have thought that would have made him act more like T'Pol...not vice versa.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Considering Spock's conflicted nature and that he's half human (and male), I say it gives us more than enough wiggle room for T'Pol's to manifest a little differently.

My issue is with "Fusion", where we are told that Vulcans have sex ONCE every seven years, which is directly contrary to what the writer of "Amok Time" intended (which is that Vulcans engage in recreational sex whenever they want) as relayed by D.C. Fontana in the forward to her novel Vulcan's Glory.

 

[Merlanthe]

Regarding T'Pol and pon farr. Wasnt that an artificially induced pon farr that she was only experiencing due to the infection she picked up from the planet? There has never been onscreen a mention of a female vulcan undergoing a naturally occurring pon farr cycle.

I always assumed that since pon farr involved the male establishing a psychic bond with his mate that it was this psychic bond that triggered the pon farr in the female. Without a mate a female woudlnt have to worry about experiencing the mating fever but when bonded to a male the pon farr state would be triggered whenever the male experienced his pon farr thus leading to perfectly synched couples.

Vulcan females experiencing pon farr without a mate would be due to infections picked up on alien planets influencing their brain chemistry/biological reactions like with T'Pol.

Thats just my own theory of course but I have never seen anytihng onscreen to disprove it.

 

[Melakon]

What I do find insanely illogical is how Trip, Phlox, or any other male on board could have turned her down.

It's never quite clear if Phlox did turn her down. We don't know for certain that his serum remedy worked. It's possible he resolved things the old fashioned way.

There seemed a bit of inconsistency to me with what we'd learned about Phlox, Denobulan marital relations, and his sense of medical ethics. He frequently enjoyed discussing the mating habits of various species, family relationships give him dozens of potential partners, their females are sexually aggressive, he's a bit of a nudist, and yet claims Denobulan males are uncomfortable showing their bodies.

And when T'Pol directly asks if the serum worked, he doesn't give a definite answer.

So maybe he waited until she was unconscious.

 

[Saganistheman]

My issue is with "Fusion", where we are told that Vulcans have sex ONCE every seven years...

This definitly has extinction due to low birth population (even if Vulcans live longer) written all over it.

 

[Saganistheman]

It's never quite clear if Phlox did turn her down. We don't know for certain that his serum remedy worked. It's possible he resolved things the old fashioned way.

And when T'Pol directly asks if the serum worked, he doesn't give a definite answer.

So maybe he waited until she was unconscious.

You are correct. I wondered about that myself. We were kinda left with an open and unanswered question there. Although since I have a fondness for Dr. Phlox's character I would hope that Dr. Phlox wouldn't take advantage of a roofied Vulcan.

 

[borgboy]

I think the different reactions of Spock and T'Pol are differences between the two individuals and doesn't have to be seen as a gender difference.
I'd think pon farr would cause chaos, that's part of why the Vulcans are so secretive and ashamed of it. I don't see how or why Spock and T'Pring's cycles would be in synch, as they weren't even around each other. Perhaps in a traditional marriage or engagement the couple's frequent proximity would have synched their pon farr cycle up thru hormones and what not, much in the way that women who lived together often sych up their menstral cycles.
I am watching Amok Time now (paused). Really great episode. What we see of Vulcan is really interesting, but not very logical. They still have these ancient rituals, which allows them to work out their relationship problems by combat to the death, there's talk of T'Pring being the property of the winner, T'Pau seems pretty contemptous, and yes, prejudiced, towards Kirk and McCoy.
T'Pring is beautiful and scheaming, but very cool headed. She's not going thru pon farr. Stonn shows signs of emotion when T'Pring doesn't choose him as her champion. He probably just has poor control of his emotions, the Vulcan equivilant of being big, dumb and pretty, but it does occur to me you could make an argument that his lack of control could be due to early onset of pon farr.
I never thought about it before, but Stonn almost certainly would have a fiancee of his own out there somewhere. This whole scenerio is probably the Vulcan version of the Jerry Springer Show, no wonder T'Pau is in such a bad mood at having to be faced with so much drama, and in front of humans no less.