I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunch
- Thread starter david g
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Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Believe me, if I thought it would be possible to get away with, or get the rights to use the LoM, A2A characters and setup in a crossover, I'd have pitched it months ago...
Believe me, if I thought it would be possible to get away with, or get the rights to use the LoM, A2A characters and setup in a crossover, I'd have pitched it months ago...
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Are you complaining?How has this gone to three pages with no serious rage?
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Well I am! I came here expecting to get a show, dammit! I wanted some arguing, some fighting, maybe even some bloodshed and brutal maiming! Somebody get me the management, I want a refund!
Well I am! I came here expecting to get a show, dammit! I wanted some arguing, some fighting, maybe even some bloodshed and brutal maiming! Somebody get me the management, I want a refund!
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Well, actually, it was a kind of cavalier move, but it's pretty amazing what Kirsten Beyer does with it in Full Circle. Don't get me wrong, some people hate it still, but I'd definitely read the book before coming up with an opinion. It's pretty surprising.
Well, actually, it was a kind of cavalier move, but it's pretty amazing what Kirsten Beyer does with it in Full Circle. Don't get me wrong, some people hate it still, but I'd definitely read the book before coming up with an opinion. It's pretty surprising.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Someone should have told him that before he wrote the book.
This. Absolutely this. I'm one who also hates the fact that Janeway was killed off, however, the stories that have come from Kirsten are indeed excellent.
Someone should have told him that before he wrote the book.
This. Absolutely this. I'm one who also hates the fact that Janeway was killed off, however, the stories that have come from Kirsten are indeed excellent.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
I know that some of the rabid Janeway fans will find this incomprehensible, but I think that the post-Janeway stories have been amongst the best Janeway stories ever told. The character may not be physically present, but her influence, her presence is felt in every scene with every character. Every characters every thought, decision and action was influenced by the reverence they held for Janeway and the effect that she had on their lives. Sort of like, "What Would Janeway Do?" A better tribute to a character would be hard to find.
I know that some of the rabid Janeway fans will find this incomprehensible, but I think that the post-Janeway stories have been amongst the best Janeway stories ever told. The character may not be physically present, but her influence, her presence is felt in every scene with every character. Every characters every thought, decision and action was influenced by the reverence they held for Janeway and the effect that she had on their lives. Sort of like, "What Would Janeway Do?" A better tribute to a character would be hard to find.
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Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
^^ Extraordinarily well said.
^^ Extraordinarily well said.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
I can sort of understand where you're coming from but it makes me wonder why they would kill the character just to have her former crew tell us how great she was. She's not out there with them and wouldn't have been seeing as she was promoted to Admiral. Could they not feel the same way about wanting to live up to her example while going back to the Delta quadrant? "This character is so great we have to kill her so other people can remind us how great she was"
I can sort of understand where you're coming from but it makes me wonder why they would kill the character just to have her former crew tell us how great she was. She's not out there with them and wouldn't have been seeing as she was promoted to Admiral. Could they not feel the same way about wanting to live up to her example while going back to the Delta quadrant? "This character is so great we have to kill her so other people can remind us how great she was"
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
^ That's twisting his words, and you know it.
That's not WHY they killed the character. They killed the character because they thought it made a good story. Part - I stress PART - of the reason that it's a good story is because the impact she made on them is abundantly clear in her absence. But there are about a dozen other compelling strands that come out of that particular event.
His point was that, in addition to being a good story anyway, the books after her death demonstrated what an impact she'd had by how much of her presence was still felt. He was saying that her death wasn't disrespectful to her fans. He wasn't explaining why it was a good idea in the first place.
^ That's twisting his words, and you know it.
That's not WHY they killed the character. They killed the character because they thought it made a good story. Part - I stress PART - of the reason that it's a good story is because the impact she made on them is abundantly clear in her absence. But there are about a dozen other compelling strands that come out of that particular event.
His point was that, in addition to being a good story anyway, the books after her death demonstrated what an impact she'd had by how much of her presence was still felt. He was saying that her death wasn't disrespectful to her fans. He wasn't explaining why it was a good idea in the first place.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
She was killed in a novel that had a giant Borg cube eat Pluto so Jellico could make a joke about Pluto's status as a planet. If you're going to kill a character, a major character, use an author who has some degree of respect for the character. Peter David didn't.
She was killed in a novel that had a giant Borg cube eat Pluto so Jellico could make a joke about Pluto's status as a planet. If you're going to kill a character, a major character, use an author who has some degree of respect for the character. Peter David didn't.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Thank you.
Exactly.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Of course, even if PAD had written the best novel of his career, Janeway would still be dead. I think that that point is what a lot of people can't get past.
Of course, even if PAD had written the best novel of his career, Janeway would still be dead. I think that that point is what a lot of people can't get past.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Janeway is and always was one of the reasons that I enjoyed Voyager - the television series - as much as I did, but I didn't have any particular reaction to her death other than confusion as to the amount of vitriol and hatred said event inspired/engendered. I do kind of question the 'editorial wisdom' of letting an author who clearly didn't like the character - and whose novels tend to be more over-the-top than they actually need to be - be the one responsible for actually killing her, but that's really neither here nor there. I vaguely remember hearing the argument raised that, if they were going to kill her off, her death should have happened in one of the Voyager-based novels, but I'm actually fine with it happening in a non-Voyager novel because she wasn't actually a 'Voyager' character anymore, at least not exclusively. I also completely agree with Turtletrekker's thoughts regarding what the decision to kill her has done to the narrative of the Voyager novels themselves. In fact, my favorite aspect of Full Circle involves the in-depth exploration of this very issue, particularly as it involves the characters of Chakotay and Seven.
Janeway is and always was one of the reasons that I enjoyed Voyager - the television series - as much as I did, but I didn't have any particular reaction to her death other than confusion as to the amount of vitriol and hatred said event inspired/engendered. I do kind of question the 'editorial wisdom' of letting an author who clearly didn't like the character - and whose novels tend to be more over-the-top than they actually need to be - be the one responsible for actually killing her, but that's really neither here nor there. I vaguely remember hearing the argument raised that, if they were going to kill her off, her death should have happened in one of the Voyager-based novels, but I'm actually fine with it happening in a non-Voyager novel because she wasn't actually a 'Voyager' character anymore, at least not exclusively. I also completely agree with Turtletrekker's thoughts regarding what the decision to kill her has done to the narrative of the Voyager novels themselves. In fact, my favorite aspect of Full Circle involves the in-depth exploration of this very issue, particularly as it involves the characters of Chakotay and Seven.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
All this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
All this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
I'm a huge Janeway fan. It does seem to me that sexism is at work in killing off her character. That doesnt mean that I dont respect the views of several posters here who claim otherwise and/or that good things have come from her character's untimely demise.
I'm a huge Janeway fan. It does seem to me that sexism is at work in killing off her character. That doesnt mean that I dont respect the views of several posters here who claim otherwise and/or that good things have come from her character's untimely demise.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
The decision to kill Janeway off was made by then TNG and VOY editor Margaret Clark-- a woman. 
The decision to kill Janeway off was made by then TNG and VOY editor Margaret Clark-- a woman.
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Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Hehehe. Well, yeah because Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data and Trip had already been killed off canonically. So far, only one has returned canonically.
And approved by Paula Block. Also a woman.
Hehehe. Well, yeah because Spock, Kirk, Sisko, Data and Trip had already been killed off canonically. So far, only one has returned canonically.
And approved by Paula Block. Also a woman.
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