I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunch
- Thread starter david g
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Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
How off-putting must it be to post this thread and have this reponse?
I mean, I know WE'VE all been there a thousand times, but HE hasn't.
In case you actually would like an answer, david g, Janeway was killed in the TNG novel "Before Dishonor". This is generally viewed as a somewhat poor choice; whether or not you like the story possibilities generated (as I do), killing her in a TNG novel, and a somewhat flippant and ridiculous one at that, has produced a lot of ruffled feathers among Janeway fans. (Again, I personally liked that book quite a bit, but I can see how it would infuriate.)
I don't know if "the first two" means you've read Homecoming and The Farther Shore or Full Circle and Unworthy; I assume by your confusion that it means the former. Either way, just know that after the Spirit Walk duo, the Voyager writer and editor both went on to other things, and Voyager's relaunch floated in limbo for a while as a result. In the mean time, Janeway was killed, and the epic Destiny crossover was planned, so when the stars aligned again for a Voyager relaunch to continue, it had to take both of those into account. Full Circle covers from the end of Spirit Walk through those major Trek-Lit events and on past them, relaunching the series without Janeway.
It's better than you think, though. Lots of generally pro-Janeway fans, even lots of fans greatly upset by her death in Before Dishonor, found Full Circle to be immensely satisfying. I wouldn't knock it 'till you've tried it; it's a pretty amazing piece of writing. And in case you're curious, reading either Before Dishonor or Destiny isn't necessary to understand Full Circle. It tells you everything you need to understand its own particular tale on its own.
(That said, some Janeway fans were, and remain, EXTREMELY pissed off about the whole thing, resulting in the threads that everyone in here is making fun of.)
As to Janeway's future:
1) The prior editors all said she was gone for the forseeable future. (ie, there were no plans to bring her back, ever, but of course publishing only plans things a couple years in advance at most, so saying that was hardly definitive.)
2) However, the novel Before Dishonor has her, after death, hanging out with Lady Q and going "somewhere else". So they could bring her back if they wanted to.
3) All the prior editors were laid off (not for quality reasons; it was just a numbers game, Pocket was hit by the recession like everyone else). So, actually, we have no idea if there are any plans right now to bring her back or not. But I would bet not.
How off-putting must it be to post this thread and have this reponse?
I mean, I know WE'VE all been there a thousand times, but HE hasn't.
In case you actually would like an answer, david g, Janeway was killed in the TNG novel "Before Dishonor". This is generally viewed as a somewhat poor choice; whether or not you like the story possibilities generated (as I do), killing her in a TNG novel, and a somewhat flippant and ridiculous one at that, has produced a lot of ruffled feathers among Janeway fans. (Again, I personally liked that book quite a bit, but I can see how it would infuriate.)
I don't know if "the first two" means you've read Homecoming and The Farther Shore or Full Circle and Unworthy; I assume by your confusion that it means the former. Either way, just know that after the Spirit Walk duo, the Voyager writer and editor both went on to other things, and Voyager's relaunch floated in limbo for a while as a result. In the mean time, Janeway was killed, and the epic Destiny crossover was planned, so when the stars aligned again for a Voyager relaunch to continue, it had to take both of those into account. Full Circle covers from the end of Spirit Walk through those major Trek-Lit events and on past them, relaunching the series without Janeway.
It's better than you think, though. Lots of generally pro-Janeway fans, even lots of fans greatly upset by her death in Before Dishonor, found Full Circle to be immensely satisfying. I wouldn't knock it 'till you've tried it; it's a pretty amazing piece of writing. And in case you're curious, reading either Before Dishonor or Destiny isn't necessary to understand Full Circle. It tells you everything you need to understand its own particular tale on its own.
(That said, some Janeway fans were, and remain, EXTREMELY pissed off about the whole thing, resulting in the threads that everyone in here is making fun of.)
As to Janeway's future:
1) The prior editors all said she was gone for the forseeable future. (ie, there were no plans to bring her back, ever, but of course publishing only plans things a couple years in advance at most, so saying that was hardly definitive.)
2) However, the novel Before Dishonor has her, after death, hanging out with Lady Q and going "somewhere else". So they could bring her back if they wanted to.
3) All the prior editors were laid off (not for quality reasons; it was just a numbers game, Pocket was hit by the recession like everyone else). So, actually, we have no idea if there are any plans right now to bring her back or not. But I would bet not.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
^david g will cope. I started the Janeway thread before last, got the same response and I survived
Oh, and while I'm here I should point out that Janeway's alive and well in the 25th century Star Trek Online novel, The Needs of the Many - but that's an alternate timeline. She's also alive in the last few Shatnerverse novels, set a year after her death in the regular novel continuity.
^david g will cope. I started the Janeway thread before last, got the same response and I survived
Oh, and while I'm here I should point out that Janeway's alive and well in the 25th century Star Trek Online novel, The Needs of the Many - but that's an alternate timeline. She's also alive in the last few Shatnerverse novels, set a year after her death in the regular novel continuity.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
About the only thing that would cheapen Janeway's death even more is bringing her back. Someone should tell Peter David that he wasn't writing a comic this time.. If we're going to get into the "death's revolving door" in Trek lit I think I may just
About the only thing that would cheapen Janeway's death even more is bringing her back. Someone should tell Peter David that he wasn't writing a comic this time.. If we're going to get into the "death's revolving door" in Trek lit I think I may just
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Oh, puleeze. As if Trek doesn't have a record for bringing back characters. Spock returned, and so did Sisko. It's as common as time travel, so when it happens again, with Janeway or any other character, don't be surprised and don't pretend like it's such a big deal. If a character's return will sell books, PB will jump at the chance. With Janeway, it's just a matter of time. Wait and see.
Oh, puleeze. As if Trek doesn't have a record for bringing back characters. Spock returned, and so did Sisko. It's as common as time travel, so when it happens again, with Janeway or any other character, don't be surprised and don't pretend like it's such a big deal. If a character's return will sell books, PB will jump at the chance. With Janeway, it's just a matter of time. Wait and see.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
The way in which Spock died served the story. Sisko was originally supposed to die but actually ended up with the Prophets. Not the same thing. We know that he told Cassidy that he would be back.
Janeway should have been written as the Federation's Borg expert along with Picard. She fought them more than anyone else and He used to be one. Add Seven to the mix and they should have been the ones calling the shots on the Borg. Instead Janeway gets off in the stupidest circumstances. Look at the Borg eating Pluto as to how serious the story was. Bad book. Bad death. To bring her back and go "Ha-ha, only joking" would be putting the Macy's cosmetic counter on a very large pig.
The way in which Spock died served the story. Sisko was originally supposed to die but actually ended up with the Prophets. Not the same thing. We know that he told Cassidy that he would be back.
Janeway should have been written as the Federation's Borg expert along with Picard. She fought them more than anyone else and He used to be one. Add Seven to the mix and they should have been the ones calling the shots on the Borg. Instead Janeway gets off in the stupidest circumstances. Look at the Borg eating Pluto as to how serious the story was. Bad book. Bad death. To bring her back and go "Ha-ha, only joking" would be putting the Macy's cosmetic counter on a very large pig.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
No, the VOY books are better because Kirsten Beyer is a better writer than Christine Golden.
No, the VOY books are better because Kirsten Beyer is a better writer than Christine Golden.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
an extremely powerful alien race who are ultimately responsible for both the origin and the destruction of the Borg.
an extremely powerful alien race who are ultimately responsible for both the origin and the destruction of the Borg.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
The out was a licensing thing that Paramount wanted, just in case. Neither the editors nor the author had any intention of actually using it. Given what I've heard of PAD's opinions on Voyager, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a problem with Janeway going away permanently.
Someone should tell Peter David that he wasn't writing a comic this time.. If we're going to get into the "death's revolving door" in Trek lit I think I may just
The out was a licensing thing that Paramount wanted, just in case. Neither the editors nor the author had any intention of actually using it. Given what I've heard of PAD's opinions on Voyager, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a problem with Janeway going away permanently.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
That's kinda the risk you take, sometimes. Especially if you take a question that should probably be answered by Google and throw it to a rabid fan BBS instead.
Quitting on a series and then reading the back cover of a book 6-7 books later USUALLY tends to have a surprise or two...
That's kinda the risk you take, sometimes. Especially if you take a question that should probably be answered by Google and throw it to a rabid fan BBS instead.
Quitting on a series and then reading the back cover of a book 6-7 books later USUALLY tends to have a surprise or two...
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
The answer we got to in an old thread that I liked was the idea that Karma has always been a staple of Trek and that there is a "balance" to be struck for death.
For instance in ST:3 in order to get Spock back, Kirk had to sacrifice his son and his starship.
similarly for Janeway, her older self came back and saved 22 members of her crew, but the Karmic balance had to be restored and so Janeway (and those on the Einstein, and all the others killed by the borg) paid the price.
Having said that none of this seemed to be in play for PD who, given the opportunity to kill Janeway and write a TNG Novel, i'm sorry to say came across (to me, your mileage may vary) as a bit of a hack and in places it seemed like something more worthy of the worst kinds of fan-fic.
But like i say, your mileage may vary!
The answer we got to in an old thread that I liked was the idea that Karma has always been a staple of Trek and that there is a "balance" to be struck for death.
For instance in ST:3 in order to get Spock back, Kirk had to sacrifice his son and his starship.
In the novella "The Chimes at Midnight" while David was saved, the Enterprise was still destroyed and the Karmic debt was paid by Kirk.
similarly for Janeway, her older self came back and saved 22 members of her crew, but the Karmic balance had to be restored and so Janeway (and those on the Einstein, and all the others killed by the borg) paid the price.
Having said that none of this seemed to be in play for PD who, given the opportunity to kill Janeway and write a TNG Novel, i'm sorry to say came across (to me, your mileage may vary) as a bit of a hack and in places it seemed like something more worthy of the worst kinds of fan-fic.
But like i say, your mileage may vary!
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Thrawn, thanks for your helpful and thoughtful response. I remain horrified that Janeway was killed off like this. She is my favorite Trek character (along with Kirk), and it's hard for me not to see this as a cavalier move...though I havent yet read the books beyond Homecoming and The Farther Shore yet.
Thrawn, thanks for your helpful and thoughtful response. I remain horrified that Janeway was killed off like this. She is my favorite Trek character (along with Kirk), and it's hard for me not to see this as a cavalier move...though I havent yet read the books beyond Homecoming and The Farther Shore yet.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
It may seem like less of a cavalier move if you actually read through the series, instead of making judgements from a random back cover.
Well, kinda. The death itself was pretty piss-poor, but a lot of interesting things and a new direction have come out of it...
It may seem like less of a cavalier move if you actually read through the series, instead of making judgements from a random back cover.
Well, kinda.
The death itself was pretty piss-poor, but a lot of interesting things and a new direction have come out of it...
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
Yup, what the Scout said.
I was surprised at the way Janeway died - but it *did* have to be Borg related, I suppose - however, both Full Circle and Unworthy are great Voyager stories.
Unworthy even more so, considering that's the real 'start of the journey'.
Don't get fixated on Janeway not being there, but *do* enjoy the books!
Yup, what the Scout said.
I was surprised at the way Janeway died - but it *did* have to be Borg related, I suppose - however, both Full Circle and Unworthy are great Voyager stories.
Unworthy even more so, considering that's the real 'start of the journey'.
Don't get fixated on Janeway not being there, but *do* enjoy the books!
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
But janeway was no longer on Voyager anyway. If she hadn't died things would have turned out pretty much the same as they are now. She was an admiral sitting at a desk back in San Francisco. The way her death was written just came across as oetty.
But janeway was no longer on Voyager anyway. If she hadn't died things would have turned out pretty much the same as they are now. She was an admiral sitting at a desk back in San Francisco. The way her death was written just came across as oetty.
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
I've been watching too much Ashes To Ashes this week - suddenly thought "Janeway had an accident and woke up in 1982..." Or at least in a caricature version of Kirk's Enterprise - Kirk as Gene Hunt, Spock and Bones as Ray and Chris...
I've been watching too much Ashes To Ashes this week - suddenly thought "Janeway had an accident and woke up in 1982..." Or at least in a caricature version of Kirk's Enterprise - Kirk as Gene Hunt, Spock and Bones as Ray and Chris...
Re: I cannot believe what they have done to Janeway in the VOY relaunc
^Hey, if The Captain's Table can exist in the Star Trek Continuity and not cause any noticeable ripple effects... I don't see why a version of "Existence" (for Starfleet Officers cut down before their time) can't as well.
Forget Recasting the roles, and just use GENE HUNT and make it a straight on continuation of the series just circa the 24th century and have the officers awake in Archer's Pre-Federation era...
(You know it started as a joke, but now I kind of want to read that story...)
^Hey, if The Captain's Table can exist in the Star Trek Continuity and not cause any noticeable ripple effects... I don't see why a version of "Existence" (for Starfleet Officers cut down before their time) can't as well.
Forget Recasting the roles, and just use GENE HUNT and make it a straight on continuation of the series just circa the 24th century and have the officers awake in Archer's Pre-Federation era...
(You know it started as a joke, but now I kind of want to read that story...)
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