How would you change the show?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I am a TOS fan through and through and think that TOS is really the only Star Trek that gets it. The rest of Star Trek is a victim of its own success, and its own insistence upon its self-importance in terms of larger cultural context. But, even TOS I find hit and miss in terms of enjoyment, and how it explored different ideas. The saving grace is, for me at least, the characters. Voyager did have those moments but they were few and far between of it to hook me. But, when it did do that it was on point.
     
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  2. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Almost without exception, the early Treks (TOS thru ENT) had solid actors in the main roles, and potentially intriguing characters. Some were used very well, including but not limited to:
    Kirk/Spock/McCoy
    Picard/Data/Worf
    Pretty much everyone on DS9
    Seven/EMH
    Trip/T'Pol

    Others were... overlooked.
    Uhura/Chekov
    Crusher/Troi/Geordi
    Chakotay/Kim
    Hoshi/Mayweather

    I expect things are/will be similar with the new Treks.
     
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  3. Mathieu

    Mathieu Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Let me state first that I'm a huge fan of BSG, Babylon 5, The Expanse and DS9 so I would have liked Voyager to be more like those shows, in all honesty.

    Season 1

    First of all, I think the Starfleet crew and the Maquis crew got along with one another way too soon, which I find extremely unrealistic. Of course, I guess the reason of that is that Voyager wanted to be the anti-DS9 and renew the tradition of conflict-averse Trek shows about exploring space rather than resolving conflicts between crewmates. The Maquis had every reason to be angry at the Federation for signing that unfair treaty with the Cardassians so it was surprising that this angst got away so easily, even under those exceptional circumstances. The fact Chakotay, who was at the head of nothing less than a terrorist group, showed so much willingness, understanding and deference right from the start towards Janeway made no sense to me.

    I think it would have been much more compelling had Chakotay and his Maquis crewmates shown more hostility towards their Starfleet counterparts during the whole first season (granted, I reckon there was some distrust in the actual series). Chakotay would have reluctantly accepted his position as #2 of the Voyager but his relationship with Janeway and Starfleet members would have remained very tense (despite Chakotay's infatuation for Janeway, it would not be until the second season that he starts acting nice to her).

    Also, the Starfleet and Maquis crews would reluctantly work together but avoid spending time with one another on their free time. Janeway, as a captain, would try her best to help the two antagonist groups bond with each other, but at the same time would remain very distrustful towards the Maquis. As someone who hates Chakotay, Tom Paris would be the staunchest opponent of the Maquis while in contrast, Harry Kim, being a nice and poised guy with Starfleet ideals, would always advocate for peace, make an effort to reconcile both crews and try his best to befriend some Maquis members, without much success. Neelix and Kes would be the sole neutral members on the ship, spending time indiscriminately with both crews and also advocating for a better understanding between them.

    The Maquis, under the influence of traitor Seska, would seriously envision a real mutiny (not just that holodeck thing in season 3), with the low-key cooperation of Chakotay. That mutiny would eventually succeed, except Seska would betray her teammates and ruthlessly take control of the ship, instead of Chakotay. The Maquis would thus be divided between those loyal to Seska and those loyal to Chakotay. Chakotay and the Maquis members on his side would make some quiet investigation and they would eventually find out Seska's real identity. They would inform the oppressed Starfleet members of her being a Cardassian spy, which would finally put Starfleet and the Maquis on the same page to undermine her efforts, and ultimately unify them for good.

    Also, I think Seska was a terrible, one-note "bwahahaha" kind of villain. She should have been more nuanced, like Gul Dukat. Her character was a complete waste, I believe she the potential to be a great villain.

    Investigations

    I also wish the Investigations storyline was much longer. I think it could have span over 5 or 6 episodes. I would have absolutely loved to see more of Tom Paris as a spy on that Kazon ship and Michael Jonas as a spy on the Voyager. Tom Paris being known as an opportunist, it would have been interesting to make the viewers believe he ended up taking sides for Seska/the Kazon and betraying Janeway or at least put him in a grey area before revealing at the very end of the arc that he always had been loyal to Starfleet all along.
     
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  4. Ianburns252

    Ianburns252 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have had a cunning plan.

    So - S1 - 3, more or less leave it as is except we take Non Sequitur out and shift it in to Season 4.

    I would change up Neelix a bit - the Mr Vulcan stuff and his general demeanour can grate but I don't think it would take much to refine him a bit.

    Kes - she is a bit too "perfect" for me. I didn't personally find her compelling but I think part of that was the writers putting themselves in a corner by having her need to be 1 Ocampan year old (so they need her to be naïve when it suits, almost childlike at times, innocent, genuine (genuine isn't a bad thing here btw - her helping the crew to accept the Doctor was a good storyline) but they also needed her to be a 20 something year old woman that Tom and Neelix could fight over.

    Either play up the 9 year growth of the character or make it a more compressed life than a human and pitch her closer to the stage of life she should be.

    Anyway - not looking to change much and I think this works without the above.

    Harry Kim isn't going anywhere, he is an ensign forever, things are what they are now...until Non Sequitur hits in early Season 4. Takes him back to Earth, sticks Danny Byrd on Voyager, play up the switcheroo to make it clear we are in the same universe.

    Harry can then explain to SFC that he has been transported here from the DQ through *insert alien machination*. He can tell them roughly where Voyager is and they can begin efforts to find her (such as sending out the Prometheus for test runs maybe and so we still get Message In A Bottle).

    Harry stays on Earth to co-ordinate efforts and pops in from time to time in Barclay's place.

    Gives us the Kes and Seven story that many have pitched and with Seven having certain childlike qualities when first disconnected I think they two of them would work well in a sisterly way and they help each other reach their potential or whatever.

    Maybe even Borg tech gets used to help Kes control the powers that had been building or extend her life a bit?

    Slap a pip on Harry's collar when he gets back, Danny Byrd can be a new character too to mix things up a bit.

    Bingo Bango - more fun for the rest of us
     
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  5. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting ideas. I especially like the way you wrote off Harry Kim without killing him or permanently removing him. His periodic returns would be far less appalling than "Fury", I wager.

    I would add that the show needs more secondary characters. As it was, it was the main nine, plus Naomi, her mom, Icheb, and a whole lot of faceless redshirts. Vorik and Ayala had names, but very little to do. If the ship was a family, they should have played that up a bit more.
     
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  6. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

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    Voyager pre-dated nuBSG.

    Where would they go? They were in the middle of the Delta Quadrant.


    The Berman era wasn't the greatest for many of the women of Trek (Jadzia, Seven of Nine, Troi, T'Pol, etc.).
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding "Non Sequitur", I can imagine the following scene playing between Harry and his barista...

    COSIMO: "Look, Harry... there's a way to get you back to Voyager. It's really dangerous, but it's theoretically possible."
    HARRY: "So, how do I do it?"
    COSIMO: "Of course, you'll die several times, and you'll get thrown in an off-world prison, ravaged by an alien disease, you'll have to take high-pitched sonic showers because no woman will have you, you'll be stuck as a miserable ensign for seven years, and your career will probably never recover from that, and people will laugh at you behind your back for years. But it is theoretically possible."
    (A long pause)
    HARRY: "Ok... well... I'll see you tomorrow, then."
    COSIMO: "Vulcan mocha?"
    HARRY: "Extra sweet."
     
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  8. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What if Quark had been on the ship and then when it was stranded he rather than Neelix ran the bar/mess hall?

    Or what if Wesley had been in the Maquis crew, how would he have interacted with Janeway, Paris, Kim?
     
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  9. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Quark on Voyager would certainly be interesting, though he would have left shoes on DS9 that would have been tough to fill. Riker transporter clone, maybe?
     
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  10. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    Season 1: The Maquis don't formally join the crew and put on Starfleet Uniforms until the last episode. Kazon should have been entirely different.

    Season 2: Season long arc of following the trail of the Caretaker's mate and encountering her in the final episode of the season. Show growing resource scarcity and technical failures of voyager. This season have been like walking in a desert looking for an oasis. Female Caretaker wouldn't have the means to send them back to the Alpha quadrant but would resupply them and improve voyager for the long trip home.

    Season 3: Largely the same, with a lot more more Borg foreshadowing. This is the last big alien-of-the-week season. Lots of exploration.

    Season 4: Year of Hell in Borg Space. Kes doesn't fling them across 7000 light years. Entire season is one serialized arc of Voyager running and hiding in the heart of a post-Scorpion Borg domain. It gets absolutely beat to hell and loses a third its crew. Seven of Nine is borgified the entire season. Harry and Kes are killed off. Season ends with them finding the long lost (and abandoned) ancient homeworld the Borg and the means to make the collective inert for all time. They escape Borg space through the intervention of Q, once this task is complete, bringing it all full circle to "Q Who?".

    Season 5: Sent beyond ex-Borg Space by Q, but still well into the Delta Quadrant, Voyager encounters the USS Equinox and spends the season tracking it as both crews gain allies and improve their technology to outmaneuver and eventually defeat the other. The Equinox is eventually destroyed and its survivors integrated into Voyager. Voyager discovers its most important Delta Quadrant technology to date: Quantum Slipstream drive, but it cannot (yet) make it work with Voyager. Voyager continues to replace its lost crewmembers (from Season 4) by bringing in willing Delta Quadrant joiners who join as provisional Starfleet officers. By the end of the Season, a third of the crew is native to the Delta Quadrant.

    Season 6: Voyager accidently awakens the ancient Vaadwuar (which are substantially different in this version and may even be a renamed Voth sect) when work on Quantum Slipstream took them to their long lost homeworld. The Vaadwuar de facto ruled the Delta Quadrant many thousands of years ago before the Borg and utilize Omega molecules as an energy source. Realizing that the Vaadwuar could become a threat to the whole galaxy greater than the Borg, Voyager spends the season using its semi-working (unreliable) Quantum Slipstream drive to get around the the Delta Quadrant rapidly and builds a coalition of worlds to oppose the Vaadwuar. Many Season 1-5 aliens-of-the-week join the Coalition, because the threat of the Vaadwuar is in their shared history. It becomes clear the entire Delta Quadrant has really been a ruin of a fallen empire the entire time (explaining its enormous political fracturing and why there is no Federation analogue), that the Borg were kind of opportunistic infection in the power vacuum allowed by the end of the Vaadwuar thousands of years ago.

    Season 7: The War between Voyager's Coalition and the reborn Vaadwuar Empire begins. Large sections of the Delta Quadrant are rendered untraversible by warp drive or subspace corridor due to Omega molecule detonations, but this locks the Vaadwaur within their solar systems and in deep space. The threat of the Vaadwuar is vanquished but warp travel is forever impossible within the quadrant. This leaves Quantum Slipstream as the only known faster than light travel technology able to traverse the Delta Quadrant. Voyager decides to stop in its trip home and instead stay in the Delta Quadrant, shepherding the Coalition it built, made up of the hundreds of species it encountered in its travels, into what could become a Second Federation.The series ends with Doctor, full of knowledge about Quantum Slipstream technology, being transmitted to Starfleet Command, informing them that Voyager not only survived and is building another Federation, but has the technology that will open the entire galaxy to exploration.

    These changes accomplish what I see as the four biggest mistakes of Voyager:
    - It adds lasting changes via serialized arcs, often season long.
    - Voyager being thrown 70,000 light years should be a landmark event in starfleet history. It makes clear what the long term legacy of its mission back actually is: laying the foundation for Federation expansion into the Delta Quadrant, and bringing back Quantum Slipstream drive "the answer", to opening galaxy-wide exploration to Starfleet, far beyond what Warp Drive can achieve. After the failure of other approaches (such as the Excelsiors "Great Transwarp Experiment", Quantum Slipstream is the clear next step in propulsion for Starfleet. That's voyager's technological legacy. It brings back what replaces the Cochrane-derived Warp drive.
    - By having Delta Quadrant species join Voyager's crew startin in Season 5, and making Voyager never actually get home but decide to stay in the Delta Quadrant, the show commits to its foundational purpose of being about Starfleet in the Delta Quadrant. The Doctor still brings the payload home though, in the final episode (there is no contact with Earth before then), allowing Starfleet to eventually reach Voyager, not the other way around (I think this is a much better ending than showing up in Earth orbit one day).
    - It does the Year of Hell season, but it does it with an enemy we care about (the Borg) before their over exposure, and thereby keeping them scary. The end of the Season puts the Borg to bed forever, since we'll have all the answers we wanted about them. Basically Year of Hell Season should also be the ultimate Borg Season. And that prevents the Borg from going shitty.
     
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  11. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

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    The Borg suit was torture for Jeri Ryan (it was SO tight, it kept cutting off the circulation in her neck. She was constantly passing out.) That's a tall order.

    I don't like getting Q involved. He's too much of a deus ex machina.


    You would permanently take the crew away from their families and loved ones to serve the Federation's interests. :eek:

    That's a bridge too far, IMO.

    It IS a landmark event -- so much so that Voyager becomes only the second ship in Federation history to receive a letter designation following its name (after Enterprise -- see Disco S3).

    How about them having the Quantum Slipstream drive and using it to get home?

    To have it and then not use it makes no sense.

    To put the focus on getting home for seven years and then turn around and keep them in the Delta Quadrant is a slap in the face to all the fans who committed to their journey.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  12. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Let's see...
    Out of uniform Maquis: Agreed.
    Resource scarcity: Definitely. Especially shuttles and torpedoes, at least for a time. And whether Suspira is the cause or not, show how and why it ends. New form of energy production, industrial replicator, whatever.
    Borg year of hell: Yes, this could work. Make the Borg horrible again.
    Kill Harry and Kes: Both are expendable, neither was developed. But I wouldn't kill both in the same year. Maybe off Harry early, before his strange lack of advancement became an issue.
    Keep Seven Borgified: Only if concessions can be made for her comfort.
    Equinox conflict: Make it occasional... not sure this issue could last a whole season.
    Create new Federation in DQ: I like this idea, but have Voyager get home. A few crew stay behind to oversee the fledgling coalition of planets.
     
  13. Scionz

    Scionz Commander Red Shirt

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    It would have to be a different design.

    In my little idea, I had to think of a way to get Voyager out of what would be a 10,000 light year graveyard in post-Borg Borgspace, so connecting it back to Q made it work in my mind. Otherwise it would be years with nothing happening because the Borg would be no more and nobody else would be in their space.


    The thing is, it doesn't take them away from their families. Sending the Doctor home with Quantum Slipstream technology gives Starfleet the way to come to them, and presumably, the way for anyone who wants to reunite with their families the opportunity to do so. I'm trying to turn the idea of "getting home" on it's head by both emphasising that Voyager is home (which the later seasons of the show actually did) and allowing a way for home to come to them. I remember it airing and people were like "will Voyager get home this season.... or this season... or this season", and I think it would have been fun to make that a moot point by giving Starfleet a way to reach them.

    Absolutely. I believe it was said in the show Voyager charted more new sectors and made more first contacts than anyone since Kirk's Enterprise. But a subtext of the show (that is underplayed unless you rewatch it carefully) is Voyager improving on and trading on their technology. I don't think the show went far enough, but it was an element of it. By tying the "technological legacy" to Quantum Slipstream, which would open the whole of the galaxy to fast travel by Starfleet, you pave the way for the next evolution of Starfleet and the Federation in the 25th century, beyond what TNG/DS9/Voyager showed us, which itself was considerably evolved beyond the Starfleet/UFP of Kirk's time (a point Voyager sometimes made).

    Especially in light of the Federation of the 33rd century in Discovery, I think that would have been great to see.



    I think it's an interesting story point to give them to choice to do that, but have them decide not to, in order to do something grander. I also think it would have upended viewers expectations (in a good way) to go against the "when do they get home mentality" and make them choose not to, even though they could, at any time, because it turns out their purpose and reason for being there, in the Delta Quadrant, is more important than simply getting home.

    To put it another way, getting home absolutely should be the goal of Season 1 Episode 1, and the focus of the show, but it makes sense to me that by Season 7, if this is a more serialized show we're talking about, that the characters will have somewhat moved past that as they made peace with their predicament. And when the opportunity to get home does come up, they don't rush and take it. That they do that would be character growth. I think it would underserve the characters if they elect to just jet home.


    What I'm picturing is a different kind of USS Equinox. It would be a different class of ship. Probably a new class that is a step between Voyager and the Sovereign class. It would be the significantly superior ship to Voyager, and superior to most other ships in that region of space. It would also have harvested technologies on its own journey to grow even more dangerous, to the point that Voyager would need a substantial number of allies to take down this marauding ship.The Season would have been partially an ongoing story of one chasing the other, the tables turning a few times, beforre Voyager and 20 ships finally succeed in taking it down.

    This is the weakest idea I got to be sure, but I think you do do something with interesting with two Starfleet ships, one good, one bad, and them spending a season trying to off the other.

    Please read what I wrote above about this. The idea would be that Voyager doesn't need to get home because it gives Starfleet the means to reach them (and implicitly, any crew who wanted to go home could). It turns the "when will Voyager get home?" question on its head by making it a moot point. Also it wouldn't be a new Federation (yet) per se. It would be more akin to the Coalition of Planets (but larger). Long term, as Starfleet equipped itself with Quantum Slipstream as a third mode of propulsion and became a regular presence in that region of space, it would formally unite with the Federation. But at that point in time, in the late 2370s, it'd be too far away still. But one day it would be the staging ground for the actual Federation to expand into the Delta Quadrant.
     
  14. Coops

    Coops Captain Captain

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    Seven Of Nine would've been a much better recurring villain than the Borg Queen, particularly once we learned her backstory. And the finale could've included her redemption so our timeline would be unaffected and she'd still appear in Picard - HURRAH!
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Admiral Admiral

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    Fair enough... I do like most of your ideas.
     
  16. Danja

    Danja Commodore Commodore

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    It would've been OOC for Janeway (She'd just spent the previous six seasons vowing to get the crew home. Now she turns around and tells everyone, "We ARE home"? It woud've made her look as if she were surrendering.)


    She would've been something akin to Dr. Smith on Lost In Space (Every week, she tries to pull something dastardly. It would've come across as cartoonish, just as it did in LIS.)
     
  17. nedski

    nedski Commander Red Shirt

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    I would have given the doctor more hair and straightened his chin.
    I would have increased the Ocampa's lifespan.
    I would have added more LGBT scenes (because it's fashionable and catches the audience).
    I would have given B'Ellana Torres a slightly more bisexual role.
    :guffaw:
     
  18. Mathieu

    Mathieu Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I would have added 10 or 20 minutes at the end of the finale to show the crew coming back to Earth, meeting again with their family etc. I think we viewers deserved to see this kind of scenes after all these years.
     
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  19. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suppose Quark vs. Janeway could have been interesting .... Janeway accusing Quark of going behind her back and breaking the Prime Directive by some shady deal... once again, and Quark responding that she never even tried to bribe him into keeping it ...
     
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  20. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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