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How would a society with no money work?

NightDiamond makes a cood call above. :) I mentioned Cyrano Jones and Harry Mudd earlier, but Kassidy Yates is probably the most prominant example of all, as she exists in the (supposedly) even more enlightened 24th century of TNG-DS9-VOY Trek. As far as we can tell based on the propoganda, there's absolutely no reason at all why she'd want (or need) to do what she does, whether criminal or legitimate. So why does she chase the coin, when humans in her time supposedly don't care about money anymore?
 
Yates is from Cestus III, on the edge of Gorn space. No telling how that might influence her upbringing. I mean they have functional baseball teams out there. They are practising retro living in the 24th century.
 
But that's the problem in a nutshell. It isn't their home. There is no ownership. Ownership means possessions and capital. In a society where wealth, possession and capital don't exist, who decides that they get that property? Who decides that I don't?

Your original scenario was just throwing the guy out and taking over. I'm pretty sure something that cruel and disruptive wouldn't be allowed. More important is who gets it after he passes away - is it property that can be transferred to his next of kin. Or does it fall into some pool of free homes that anyone can apply for?

I'd be inclined to say his kids get first call, for reasons of family attachment and continuity. It's going to have more personal meaning to them and anyone else can start a restaurant somewhere else if they want.

What they don't have wills in the 24th Century?
 
NightDiamond makes a cood call above. :) I mentioned Cyrano Jones and Harry Mudd earlier, but Kassidy Yates is probably the most prominant example of all, as she exists in the (supposedly) even more enlightened 24th century of TNG-DS9-VOY Trek. As far as we can tell based on the propoganda, there's absolutely no reason at all why she'd want (or need) to do what she does, whether criminal or legitimate. So why does she chase the coin, when humans in her time supposedly don't care about money anymore?


And don't forget Vash who being the Lara Croft of Trek was always looking for valuable artifacts.
 
^ Indeed, let's not forget Vash. The 24th century is full of humans looking to make a quick profit in the universe.

Yates is from Cestus III, on the edge of Gorn space. No telling how that might influence her upbringing. I mean they have functional baseball teams out there. They are practising retro living in the 24th century.

Might we therefore hypothesise that there's a distinction between 'on worlders' (those born on Earth) and 'off worlders' (those born on colonies, whether autonomously governing or under the wing of the Federation)? So it isn't 'humanity' as such which has overcome their need for money, but merely the humanity who still live on Earth maybe? The rest of us out there in the great unknown, out on the fringes of the final frontier, must still make their living the hard way in the wider, still economy-based galaxy?

(The exception being those noble officers who join the Starfleet, who obviously have no need for money anyway because everything on-board ship gets provided for them. They're really just an extension of Earth-humans, although their crews aren't necessarily exclusively made up of such.)

I mean, *maybe* Cestus III is a particularly rural outpost, and one presumably built on some kind of a shared agreement with the Gorn Hegemony. But there are plenty others out there in Star Trek who, in theory, are Federation citizens, and should be entitled to the same privleges as any other Federation citizen, but who seem to strike out on their own anyway. Maybe 'colonials' are deliberately regressive by nature?
 
Cestus III is a relatively new colony that shares the colony with the Gorn. It was originally an outpost destroyed by the Gorn in the 2260s while Kirk was in command of the Enterprise. By Sisko's time it was a populated world for around hundred years. Since it shares space with the Gorn, it might need to trade via their economic systems, much like Starfleet personel on DS9 have learned to trade with gold-pressed latinum due to proximatiy to Bajor and the Ferengi economic reach within Cardassian space.
 
It's interesting to me both to observe, and to note that somehow no one has yet mentioned, how this argument seems to correlate to contemporary political/philosophical attitudes.

There's the conservative point of view: human nature is inherently greedy, self-serving, and antagonistic; given the opportunity people will be lazy or be dicks; a market economy based on trading labor for survival is the only real way to motivate people; if everyone seems cooperative it's probably because of some sinister oppressive government.

And then there's the liberal point of view: human nature is inherently creative and cooperative; given the opportunity people will find ways to rise to their greatest personal potential; real motivation is intrinsic rather than extrinsic; government exists to serve people's needs, not to control them.

Star Trek is clearly based on the latter set of ideas and principles. To me, those seem both a far better and a far more realistic portrayal of human psychology and behavior. Those with the opposite worldview, though, will almost unavoidably see Trek as implausibly utopian.

Keep in mind, pretty much all of human history to date, and the economic systems we've built during same, are based around the concept of scarcity. Both basic resources, and the goods we create from them, exist in limited (often nonrenewable) quantities and take a great deal of time and effort both to create or acquire, and to distribute.

(Of course, those same economic systems rely on the obviously incompatible assumption that "growth" can continue indefinitely... but I digress.)

What we're talking about in Trek, though, as others have mentioned, is a post-scarcity economy. Not necessarily the same kind as posited in a lot of contemporary SF and futurist speculation (i.e., post-singularity, nanotech-based, etc.)... but still, the basic idea is similar. Energy is clean, limitless, and so cheap as to be virtually free. Using that energy, matter is easily converted from one form to another, and instantly transported from one place to another.

A post-scarcity economy may be hard to imagine, because all our intuitions are built around being raised and acculturated in the opposite, but that's what this exercise requires. Our modern vision of how "markets" operate (whether for goods, or for labor) relies intrinsically on scarcity. In Trek's future, that vision is obsolete.

To clarify: saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that personal property and possessions don't exist. Neither Picard nor anyone else ever made that claim. Moreover, saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that money doesn't exist elsewhere in the galaxy, to facilitate trade amongst different cultures with different systems and different values. No one ever claimed that either.

How do all the details of a post-scarcity economy work? That's not clear, nor does it have to be for story purposes. But what it does clearly mean is that people's basic motivations and behaviors will be different. What the conservative cynics think of as "human nature" is no more than a situational social construct, one that will no longer apply. Others have already mentioned Maslow's hierarchy of needs, a concept supported by tons of psychological research. When a given level of that hierarchy is met (e.g., basic physical and emotional needs), people shift their attention to the next level up (e.g., self-actualization).

Imagine: your basic needs for food, clothing, shelter, education, health, and entertainment are guaranteed. The scut work (sewage treatment, or what-have-you) is handled by automation. All the information in the galaxy is at the tips of your fingers, and you can go anywhere you want to go at the speed of warp drive. What do you choose to do?

You can be an artist. Or a teacher. Or a chef. Or an architect. Or a writer. Or a public servant. Or whatever floats your boat. Others aren't necessarily obliged to pay attention to you, of course, but if you're good at what you do, you'll attract attention. (It's like the economy of the internet — all of this stuff we do for free! — expanded to the real world.)

Of course, some things are still unavoidably limited (if not necessarily scarce per se). If you want a beach house in California... well, there's only so much of that real estate to go around. But if it's really that important to you, you can probably find something from your own skillset to barter to the current owner of one to motivate him/her to trade it to you.

Or if you have an urge to explore the frontier? You can join up with a colony mission, and help design your own social contract from scratch on another world. Or you can join Starfleet... and be trained to develop your own skills and talents to their peak, and have the opportunity to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no man has gone before.

But hey, you wouldn't be drawing a salary! So what's the point, eh? :rolleyes:

But seriously, as this thread has already made clear, any number of people would be more than happy to seize that opportunity. And those who still sincerely ask "what's the point?"... are simply missing the point.
 
Well the Federation model would beat the current western model of "trickle down economics" which just does not work. At least everyone would start on an even playing field.
 
It's interesting to me both to observe, and to note that somehow no one has yet mentioned, how this argument seems to correlate to contemporary political/philosophical attitudes.

There's the conservative point of view: human nature is inherently greedy, self-serving, and antagonistic; given the opportunity people will be lazy or be dicks; a market economy based on trading labor for survival is the only real way to motivate people; if everyone seems cooperative it's probably because of some sinister oppressive government.

And then there's the liberal point of view: human nature is inherently creative and cooperative; given the opportunity people will find ways to rise to their greatest personal potential; real motivation is intrinsic rather than extrinsic; government exists to serve people's needs, not to control them.

Star Trek is clearly based on the latter set of ideas and principles. To me, those seem both a far better and a far more realistic portrayal of human psychology and behavior. Those with the opposite worldview, though, will almost unavoidably see Trek as implausibly utopian.

Keep in mind, pretty much all of human history to date, and the economic systems we've built during same, are based around the concept of scarcity. Both basic resources, and the goods we create from them, exist in limited (often nonrenewable) quantities and take a great deal of time and effort both to create or acquire, and to distribute.

(Of course, those same economic systems rely on the obviously incompatible assumption that "growth" can continue indefinitely... but I digress.)

What we're talking about in Trek, though, as others have mentioned, is a post-scarcity economy. Not necessarily the same kind as posited in a lot of contemporary SF and futurist speculation (i.e., post-singularity, nanotech-based, etc.)... but still, the basic idea is similar. Energy is clean, limitless, and so cheap as to be virtually free. Using that energy, matter is easily converted from one form to another, and instantly transported from one place to another.

A post-scarcity economy may be hard to imagine, because all our intuitions are built around being raised and acculturated in the opposite, but that's what this exercise requires. Our modern vision of how "markets" operate (whether for goods, or for labor) relies intrinsically on scarcity. In Trek's future, that vision is obsolete.

To clarify: saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that personal property and possessions don't exist. Neither Picard nor anyone else ever made that claim. Moreover, saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that money doesn't exist elsewhere in the galaxy, to facilitate trade amongst different cultures with different systems and different values. No one ever claimed that either.

How do all the details of a post-scarcity economy work? That's not clear, nor does it have to be for story purposes. But what it does clearly mean is that people's basic motivations and behaviors will be different. What the conservative cynics think of as "human nature" is no more than a situational social construct, one that will no longer apply. Others have already mentioned Maslow's hierarchy of needs, a concept supported by tons of psychological research. When a given level of that hierarchy is met (e.g., basic physical and emotional needs), people shift their attention to the next level up (e.g., self-actualization).

Imagine: your basic needs for food, clothing, shelter, education, health, and entertainment are guaranteed. The scut work (sewage treatment, or what-have-you) is handled by automation. All the information in the galaxy is at the tips of your fingers, and you can go anywhere you want to go at the speed of warp drive. What do you choose to do?

You can be an artist. Or a teacher. Or a chef. Or an architect. Or a writer. Or a public servant. Or whatever floats your boat. Others aren't necessarily obliged to pay attention to you, of course, but if you're good at what you do, you'll attract attention. (It's like the economy of the internet — all of this stuff we do for free! — expanded to the real world.)

Of course, some things are still unavoidably limited (if not necessarily scarce per se). If you want a beach house in California... well, there's only so much of that real estate to go around. But if it's really that important to you, you can probably find something from your own skillset to barter to the current owner of one to motivate him/her to trade it to you.

Or if you have an urge to explore the frontier? You can join up with a colony mission, and help design your own social contract from scratch on another world. Or you can join Starfleet... and be trained to develop your own skills and talents to their peak, and have the opportunity to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no man has gone before.

But hey, you wouldn't be drawing a salary! So what's the point, eh? :rolleyes:

But seriously, as this thread has already made clear, any number of people would be more than happy to seize that opportunity. And those who still sincerely ask "what's the point?"... are simply missing the point.

Well said.
 
So really to try and twist it into something closer to present day attitudes and economies is basically making an argument dishonestly, or at least in the wrong way.
No twisting required.

Star Trek primarily focuses on Starfleet, however we do on occasion see the civilian world, there has never been a depiction of a overall socialist system, for example no one is ever said to have been given a house by the government. However, we do hear of buying and selling of a house.

I attribute this to the fact that the people making and writing the show didn't live in a socialist system, they lived in a capitalistic market economy, this is why references to a more "conventional" economic system keep being shown in the future.

In the Federation, corporations own entire planets.

The exception being those noble officers who join the Starfleet, who obviously have no need for money anyway because everything on-board ship gets provided for them
Really? My thought is that it's like in the modern US Navy, the Starfleet officers would pay for their meals and what not. While the enlist would eat for free.

Both officers and enlisted would pay for drinks in places like TenForward.


")
 
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Yates is from Cestus III, on the edge of Gorn space. No telling how that might influence her upbringing. I mean they have functional baseball teams out there. They are practising retro living in the 24th century.

But surely she has the right to go and live in luxury on the home world of her species (Earth). Yet she chooses not to. Doesn't this prove that human nature has not changed; Earth culture might have but should you take those luxuries away, their baser qualities are revealed.

Plus there are people who clearly don't want to be a part of it. Why?

To clarify: saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that personal property and possessions don't exist. Neither Picard nor anyone else ever made that claim. Moreover, saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that money doesn't exist elsewhere in the galaxy, to facilitate trade amongst different cultures with different systems and different values. No one ever claimed that either.

So wealth doesn't exist but property and possessions do. So the beautiful houses on the beach are continually kept in the same families. Picard's farm will always stay in his family, Sisko's restaurant and property likewise. In a society where there are limits, that will inevitably lead to a class structure and an obvious inequality

How do all the details of a post-scarcity economy work? That's not clear, nor does it have to be for story purposes.

But it does need to be consistent otherwise holes appear.

Imagine: your basic needs for food, clothing, shelter, education, health, and entertainment are guaranteed. The scut work (sewage treatment, or what-have-you) is handled by automation. All the information in the galaxy is at the tips of your fingers, and you can go anywhere you want to go at the speed of warp drive. What do you choose to do?

An argument made by previous generations. Give the poor homes, give them welfare, give them the basics and they'll shut up and stop causing problems for the rest of us

Doesn't matter how many times you lift the poor up; if they continue to be beneath you (even by an inch), you still have an unequal society.

And those who still sincerely ask "what's the point?"... are simply missing the point.

In relation to this subject, I don't believe that anyone has ever asked "what's the point?" They have only ever asked, how?

I don't think people are arguing that a better, even utopian future couldn't ever exist. I think they're simply arguing that the one that's presented to us in Trek couldn't. It has too many flaws and contradictions.
 
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You keep mentioning inequality - without mentioning any examples that I'd see being social problems anything like on the level we have today.

suspending disbelief for a radical change in basic human nature and society as a whole is a lot harder

I dunno about inherent human nature, but I can buy that sort of change to society when it goes post-scarcity thanks to technology that's basically magic.

An argument made by previous generations. Give the poor homes, give them welfare, give them the basics and they'll shut up and stop causing problems for the rest of us

More like, give everyone the same thing? The same resources, education, quality of living. There's no rich to contrast with the poor being given stuff.
 
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You keep mentioning inequality - without mentioning any examples that I'd see being social problems anything like on the level we have today.

You're looking at it with 21st century eyes. If I told a peasant in the 14th century that he could have a home with hot and cold running water, electricity, welfare payments, free education, free health care......he'd consider himself lucky and would not care that there were inequalities elsewhere in society

Yet people today who have those very things do care that there are inequalities elsewhere in their society

Each generations inequalities might seem trivial to the one before but they're not to the people experiencing them

You assume that because people today would bite your hand off to live in the Federation utopia, that people who live in that utopia (to our eyes) would also feel the same way but it doesn't often work like that

More like, give everyone the same thing? The same resources, education, quality of living. There's no rich to contrast with the poor being given stuff.

But we've established that not everyone does or can get the same things. Does everyone receive the exact same level of education? Seems unlikely in any era. The rich as we know them might be gone (more wealth) but the rich as the 24th century would know them (inherited property, greater status, greater opportunity) would still be there and no matter how small the differences might be, I still say it would generate a sense of inequality

And we know that the beach house are being inherited therefore, where is the meritocracy? Where is the opportunity for people other than those families to have a beach house?

We may have reduced inequality but I contend that it cannot be removed entirely and as long as it still exists in any small measure, there will be those who have a problem with it and make their voices heard.
 
It's interesting to me both to observe, and to note that somehow no one has yet mentioned, how this argument seems to correlate to contemporary political/philosophical attitudes.

There's the conservative point of view: human nature is inherently greedy, self-serving, and antagonistic; given the opportunity people will be lazy or be dicks; a market economy based on trading labor for survival is the only real way to motivate people; if everyone seems cooperative it's probably because of some sinister oppressive government.

And then there's the liberal point of view: human nature is inherently creative and cooperative; given the opportunity people will find ways to rise to their greatest personal potential; real motivation is intrinsic rather than extrinsic; government exists to serve people's needs, not to control them.

Star Trek is clearly based on the latter set of ideas and principles. To me, those seem both a far better and a far more realistic portrayal of human psychology and behavior. Those with the opposite worldview, though, will almost unavoidably see Trek as implausibly utopian.

Keep in mind, pretty much all of human history to date, and the economic systems we've built during same, are based around the concept of scarcity. Both basic resources, and the goods we create from them, exist in limited (often nonrenewable) quantities and take a great deal of time and effort both to create or acquire, and to distribute.

(Of course, those same economic systems rely on the obviously incompatible assumption that "growth" can continue indefinitely... but I digress.)

What we're talking about in Trek, though, as others have mentioned, is a post-scarcity economy. Not necessarily the same kind as posited in a lot of contemporary SF and futurist speculation (i.e., post-singularity, nanotech-based, etc.)... but still, the basic idea is similar. Energy is clean, limitless, and so cheap as to be virtually free. Using that energy, matter is easily converted from one form to another, and instantly transported from one place to another.

A post-scarcity economy may be hard to imagine, because all our intuitions are built around being raised and acculturated in the opposite, but that's what this exercise requires. Our modern vision of how "markets" operate (whether for goods, or for labor) relies intrinsically on scarcity. In Trek's future, that vision is obsolete.

To clarify: saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that personal property and possessions don't exist. Neither Picard nor anyone else ever made that claim. Moreover, saying that money doesn't exist on Earth doesn't mean that money doesn't exist elsewhere in the galaxy, to facilitate trade amongst different cultures with different systems and different values. No one ever claimed that either.

How do all the details of a post-scarcity economy work? That's not clear, nor does it have to be for story purposes. But what it does clearly mean is that people's basic motivations and behaviors will be different. What the conservative cynics think of as "human nature" is no more than a situational social construct, one that will no longer apply. Others have already mentioned Maslow's hierarchy of needs, a concept supported by tons of psychological research. When a given level of that hierarchy is met (e.g., basic physical and emotional needs), people shift their attention to the next level up (e.g., self-actualization).

Imagine: your basic needs for food, clothing, shelter, education, health, and entertainment are guaranteed. The scut work (sewage treatment, or what-have-you) is handled by automation. All the information in the galaxy is at the tips of your fingers, and you can go anywhere you want to go at the speed of warp drive. What do you choose to do?

You can be an artist. Or a teacher. Or a chef. Or an architect. Or a writer. Or a public servant. Or whatever floats your boat. Others aren't necessarily obliged to pay attention to you, of course, but if you're good at what you do, you'll attract attention. (It's like the economy of the internet — all of this stuff we do for free! — expanded to the real world.)

Of course, some things are still unavoidably limited (if not necessarily scarce per se). If you want a beach house in California... well, there's only so much of that real estate to go around. But if it's really that important to you, you can probably find something from your own skillset to barter to the current owner of one to motivate him/her to trade it to you.

Or if you have an urge to explore the frontier? You can join up with a colony mission, and help design your own social contract from scratch on another world. Or you can join Starfleet... and be trained to develop your own skills and talents to their peak, and have the opportunity to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no man has gone before.

But hey, you wouldn't be drawing a salary! So what's the point, eh? :rolleyes:

But seriously, as this thread has already made clear, any number of people would be more than happy to seize that opportunity. And those who still sincerely ask "what's the point?"... are simply missing the point.

Great, really well articulated response!
 
I guess it depends on the society and level of technology. If you have no fuctioning civil society, no society built with no kind of financial compensation will work.

However, one with a fuctioning civil society and strong mores and intelligence, well, it could work.


But idealy I think you'd need to do it in test areas and the technology needs to be there to give incentives. It would still be a a system of compensation, just not financial but rather barter.

If we had power sources like that on Trek, replicators, easy transporation that doesn't require lots of financial backing to keep up and use, people could easily be persuaded to barter work for a living. If could power a house wiht no costs unto me, I'd work to keep the house and have it maintained, as long as the house was provided for me. And in line the people building the house might be willing to do it for free in exchange for thigns they need, like transportation and other things not mentioned. It would be a slow road for sure.


But the real problem lies in that no society functions independantly of others or independant of other countries. Right now a number of countries are tied financially to each other. If one country pulled out because it was leaving the system of currency to some other, that affects countries it is tied to in many ways and can even harm them in very negative ones.

And even if you could sever financial ties with other countries without problematic consequences to them, you can't escape currency as long as they also use it. Ther are countries that have recources, for example, America doesn't, or recources in greater abundance than America does, so in order to get thsoe for manufacture, America would still have to have currency and that currency has to be generated somehow. If it's just printed, it has no intrinsic value; if a debt was called or a company demanded cold hard cash as opposed to numbers on paper or on a computer screen, what does a country with no money give them?
 
TOS was 70 years before, perhaps some small amount of materialism hung on. But really I don't care so much how it fits in.

Robert Picard has a nice big house, but we've never seen a 24th century earth house that isn't nice. He has land for a vineyard but not everyone even wants land. (it could even be a community allotment sort of thing).

You're looking at it with 21st century eyes.

I dunno, I think you and T'girl are the ones stuck in a 21st century mindset by trying to keep mapping bits of our present day culture and society onto Trek.

So far it seems the extent of inequality a matter of who has the shorter walk to their favourite Cajun restaurant, or who gets one nice home instead of... another nice home. So people will grumble a bit?

But to assert that's somehow going to be a cultural problem equivalent to the rich\poor gap of today, seems to be reaching a bit.

[edit]Actually maybe I should be clearer in my own head what it is you are asserting. You started off saying there was just as much inequality, but then clarified to saying people just act is if there is. Then we had 7 pages of beach houses. So what is the position here? That earth is still capitalist? That it's not such a great place to live? That we just can't figure out the details of how their society works?
 
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The wine is rich, Robert just has a house full of old things from his family. When Captain Picard and Robert's wife die? There likely isn't any family left to take that land. So it would be up for whoever gets it first unless mentioned in a will.

One key thing mentioned is that humanity has gotten to the point where the accumulation of wealth is not a driving factor. It is not said that it doesn't happen, just that most people don't do it nor particularly care about wealth. Getting stuff to get stuff to make one seem important, is not a human thing in the late 24th century. Getting stuff one needs or likes still is. How this is done seems ot be immateral unless the item is rare and one doesn't just go for a replicated copy. What happens after that is unclear given what we see and are told in the 24th century.

In the mid-23rd century, credits are still in use as the replicator does not seem to exist on a large scale, if at all. While Earth might have basically unlimited power, they do not have unlimited production that uses that power. By the 24th century, or possibly the late 23rd, the replicator is introduced and the Federation economy changes to what the likes of Picard, Sisko,and Janeway have to deal with. It is possible that the system has not fully spread to the outer colonies yet. Or that there is resistance to the systems (people fear change), or cannot grasp the concept of not having credits anymore.

It may be a very new thing, which is why we still see the remains of the older credit system from time to time in Picard's era. Also why sometime modern people didn't quite understand the replicator in the early seasons. It could be new to their generation and thus the change in economy is also new.
 
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The wine is rich, Robert just has a house full of old things from his family. When Captain Picard and Robert's wife die? There likely isn't any family left to take that land. So it would be up for whoever gets it first unless mentioned in a will.

After Robert and Rene (not the wife) die, Marie inherits the vineyard and continues to operate it. She even had the house rebuilt.

One key thing mentioned is that humanity has gotten to the point where the accumulation of wealth is not a driving factor. It is not said that it doesn't happen

It's important to look at Picard's specific choice of words. He said the accumulation of wealth is no longer a DRIVING factor. He did not say it is no longer ANY factor.
 
One thing to point though, is Kassidy Yates only said her brother lived on Cestus III, which means they still could have been born on earth.

That would still make her motivations seem strange.

If we follow the "work for credits or money" theory, then this is suggesting that jobs may not be in abundance on earth, if some humans are resorting to crime to make a living.

If we follow the 'all basic needs and luxuries are easily provided free by replicator' idea, then it seems strange that a human would risk prison or injury just for basic living needs.

Any human could easily get back on their feet, instantly, by going to earth.


One thing does support Kasidy's motivation:

One episode made it a point to show Jake was completely helpless to engage in basic commerce because he was human.

As human he couldn't purchase anything, because humans abandoned currency.

But the concepts are still odd though.
 
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