Yeah, if All Access exists five years from now, it will be because Trek has carried the water for them.
I wonder if they won't accelerate show turnover as they build up props and sets that can be redressed and reused, to cut down on startup costs.
Poll How many seasons do you think Discovery will get?
- Thread starter Lord Garth
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Yeah, if All Access exists five years from now, it will be because Trek has carried the water for them.
I wonder if they won't accelerate show turnover as they build up props and sets that can be redressed and reused, to cut down on startup costs.
The only thing that I think would stop Discovery after less than five seasons is whether or not SMG stays with the series AND whether or not the producers feel they could continue working without her. The production schedule seems to be very loose. They seem to have reached some stability with the writers' room. Sure, they could lay an egg with season 3, or they can overextend themselves, deciding that it would be better to continue with a Nickelodeon series than Discovery. I doubt either Picard or a potential Pike series could take its place, especially since the stars of those series would not be able to commit to more than three years (it would seem). All else being equal, Discovery is the core for Star Trek development.
If SMG leaves, Discovery is basically done. The show is so tightly focused on her as a character that shifting it to an "ensemble" would leave it unrecognizable.
Of course, they could always come up with some wacky sci-fi reason why Michael Burnham gets recast.
With Picard, Alex Kurtzman is really picking up someone else's Star Trek -- Rick Berman's -- and continuing with it. With the third season of Discovery, he has a chance to truly develop a Star Trek universe of his own. One that isn't butting up against TOS or is continuing TNG/DS9/VOY.
In the world of the 32nd Century, I think they'll enjoy having a canvas that's completely their own and they'll want to keep building on top of that material. Picard and the 25th Century are a fail-safe in case the new setting in the 4th Millennium isn't well-received.
What I'm hoping is that the DVD/Blu-Ray Commentary for "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" will delve into what specifically led them to decide to switch timeframes and how far in advance it might've been thought out. I think it's earlier than we've suspected but can't say for sure. Even though I got the first inkling they might do a bigger, more serious time-jump later on after they did a small one after the Mirror Universe episodes, I think they might've been laying down groundwork as far back as "Magic To Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" by introducing the concept of the time crystals. Even if they didn't know what exactly they wanted to do with them yet, but they went out of their way to put them out there in the most unsuspecting way. I don't think it was random.
If they want a series about a Federation that's fallen from grace, if not fallen entirely, then they probably wanted a crew that actually remembers the Federation first-hand to help rebuild it. So in order to do that, it helps to show the crew actually living in a time when the Federation was around and in its prime first, learning from their mistakes so they can show people in The Future how it's done.
So I think at the end of Discovery's second season, they wrapped up the first stage of what they want DSC to be. In this next stage, in the permanent setting where the show has ended up where they wanted it to be, it might take some time to tell this new story. I certainly don't think the Federation can be rebuilt in two seasons. Andromeda might've rebuilt the Commonwealth in two seasons, but I think this would be a "rest of the series" arc for Discovery. Rebuilding the Federation seems like it should be a long-term goal. Not a short-term goal.
The showrunners may have changed, but Alex Kurtzman is still the one ultimately in charge and who the showrunners ultimately report to. So I think they had an overall idea in broad strokes, it's just the details that changed. Most prominently, the details probably changed with the shakeup after Gretchen Harberts and Aaron Berg were fired. I think the idea of Discovery ending up in The Future was always there, and remained intact, it's just that how it got there is what changed.
In the world of the 32nd Century, I think they'll enjoy having a canvas that's completely their own and they'll want to keep building on top of that material. Picard and the 25th Century are a fail-safe in case the new setting in the 4th Millennium isn't well-received.
What I'm hoping is that the DVD/Blu-Ray Commentary for "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" will delve into what specifically led them to decide to switch timeframes and how far in advance it might've been thought out. I think it's earlier than we've suspected but can't say for sure. Even though I got the first inkling they might do a bigger, more serious time-jump later on after they did a small one after the Mirror Universe episodes, I think they might've been laying down groundwork as far back as "Magic To Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" by introducing the concept of the time crystals. Even if they didn't know what exactly they wanted to do with them yet, but they went out of their way to put them out there in the most unsuspecting way. I don't think it was random.
If they want a series about a Federation that's fallen from grace, if not fallen entirely, then they probably wanted a crew that actually remembers the Federation first-hand to help rebuild it. So in order to do that, it helps to show the crew actually living in a time when the Federation was around and in its prime first, learning from their mistakes so they can show people in The Future how it's done.
So I think at the end of Discovery's second season, they wrapped up the first stage of what they want DSC to be. In this next stage, in the permanent setting where the show has ended up where they wanted it to be, it might take some time to tell this new story. I certainly don't think the Federation can be rebuilt in two seasons. Andromeda might've rebuilt the Commonwealth in two seasons, but I think this would be a "rest of the series" arc for Discovery. Rebuilding the Federation seems like it should be a long-term goal. Not a short-term goal.
The showrunners may have changed, but Alex Kurtzman is still the one ultimately in charge and who the showrunners ultimately report to. So I think they had an overall idea in broad strokes, it's just the details that changed. Most prominently, the details probably changed with the shakeup after Gretchen Harberts and Aaron Berg were fired. I think the idea of Discovery ending up in The Future was always there, and remained intact, it's just that how it got there is what changed.
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I went with 6 just to be different. But I do think they will have at least 3 more seasons. Discovery just went to the 32nd century which should open up a whole lot of spinoff opportunites both in the 32nd century and the 800 years between it and Picard. It'll get more than 1 season to set up the new world of the 32nd century.
I also think this 32nd century jump was originally planned in season 1 (at the end of the last mirror episode) but they decided to delay it by 1 year to have Pike's Enterprise feature in season 2.
I also think this 32nd century jump was originally planned in season 1 (at the end of the last mirror episode) but they decided to delay it by 1 year to have Pike's Enterprise feature in season 2.
Couldn't they still be working with Fuller's original idea of an anthology which jumps to a new period every season? The only thing that seems different is that there is a regular cast rather than one that rotates from season to season.
Yes. That ties back into "earlier than we suspected".
Yes, it is based around Burnham, but Tilly seems like an escape hatch character, and a somewhat popular one.
In fact Kurtzman has said it was always the plan to end the season where they did, which I interpret to mean they went into it knowing that they planned to essentially "wipe the slate" and bid farewell to Pike, Spock, and Number One.
But on a fundamental level, the transition to the far future will be tough. Not because they won't have fanwank to fall back on, but because the core of Discovery is Michael's character, and she's now been shorn of almost all of the relationships and backstory which helped to explain why she is the protagonist. Which will get even worse once MU Georgiou goes off to her own series (however the heck that happens).
Some people continue to have issues with Michael as a character - and SMG as an actor (though I don't) but without her the show would be unrecognizable. IMHO there's just not enough there with Saru/Tilly/Stamets to continue the show.
But on a fundamental level, the transition to the far future will be tough. Not because they won't have fanwank to fall back on, but because the core of Discovery is Michael's character, and she's now been shorn of almost all of the relationships and backstory which helped to explain why she is the protagonist. Which will get even worse once MU Georgiou goes off to her own series (however the heck that happens).
Some people continue to have issues with Michael as a character - and SMG as an actor (though I don't) but without her the show would be unrecognizable. IMHO there's just not enough there with Saru/Tilly/Stamets to continue the show.
I liked Tilly a lot in the first season. In the second I thought she was mostly poorly used in the first half of the season, and then nearly vanished in the second half (she was entirely absent for one episode).
I absolutely think she can't stand in as a lead on the show. She could be a decent lead in a "Lower Decks" kinda show, but the change in tone by making her be the focus character would be jarring.
Without another time jump, I think one season to rebuild the Federation is ridiculous. Five seasons is slightly less so, especially if five seasons spans more than five years.
I 100% agree with you. That said, to date the way Discovery seems to be written is "Do something one season, then do something completely different the next."
They had no idea at the end of the first season what was going to happen when the Enterprise appeared - or whether Pike or someone else was going to be the Captain. And by all reports they had no real plans for the far future at the time that they wrapped up the second season (though they began to firm up by the time the finale was broadcast).
My point here is the show has never had a long-term plan or vision beyond "get to the season finale, then consider next season if it's greenlit." Why would we expect that to change now?
I would agree, but I’d have thought the Klingon war would have warranted more than a half-season from start to finish.
Simple. The plotting of the arcs was short-term because I'm positing they only intended to stay in the 23rd Century short-term. Their approach would change now because the setting they're in -- I'm speculating -- is intended to be permanent. If they're going to be in the 32nd Century permanently and they don't have to restore things to the TOS Status Quo, as was the case during the first two seasons, then that's what will have led to the change.
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We know the original, Fuller plan was to end up in the MU much earlier in the season. We also know that Lorca wasn't supposed to be from the MU, and the tardigrade was originally supposed to be a crewmember, meaning all of the spore drive stuff was likely added after he left. I'm guessing MU Georgiou was also a later addition, as was likely the whole Voq/Ash Tyler thing. Take all of those elements away and you have a much more open canvas to do the Klingon War full justice.
We have no evidence to suggest this is true. Indeed, the only evidence we have to is to the contrary - that CBS vetoed Fuller's planned "anthology" idea because they felt like it would require the construction of entirely new sets every season, and they wanted to keep the overall cost of the show down.
I know. That's the reason I said I want to watch the DVD Commentary on "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II". I have no evidence. All I have is speculation. Speculation that I've done my best to put together but speculation nonetheless. It's entirely possible that one year from now I'll be able to look at this thread and either say, "What the Hell was I thinking?" or "I can't believe I got as much of it right as I did." I'm putting forth all of my chips.
FWIW, my predictions for the next season:
1. As I said upthread, DIS will be renewed for a fourth season, but I expect a longer haitus between seasons this time.
2. Discovery will not return to the 23rd century (safe to say this, Kurtzman has said as much).
3. The Federation will not be rebuilt by the end of the final episode, but whatever the primary antagonist is for the season will be defeated, leaving them to scramble for a new idea for the fourth season.
4. MU Georgiou will exit the show mid-season to allow for a break before the Section 31 show starts production. No guesses on the timeframe of that show.
5. At least one other of the 23rd century characters will exit the show by the end of Season 3 as well.
I agree with most of what you said except this bit. Fuller definitely created Paul Stamets, as he had done on Hannibal as well, named after the real world 21st Century Mushroom man. (And the DSC one was a quasi-apology for the Hannibal one being a killer.) There's no way he added a mushroom expert but no reason for a mushroom expert.
Yep. It's much more likely they had a tardigrade crewman (named Ephraim, btw, after the guy who discovered them Johann August Ephraim Goeze, how cute is that?) as Stamets' boss because tardigrades are kinda an "it" thing in popular science right now and because of the debunked belief that they are capable of horizontal gene transfer (allowing for interaction with spores). And then when that fell flat due to cost they reused the character design for Ripper as a means to give Stamets the ability to interact with the spores himself like Ephraim was supposed to do originally.
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