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How could they have made this a better show?

I personally love Phlox. However, it would have better, IMO, to have him be from a perviously established race. Maybe a Tellarite?
Tellarite would have been great. Or why not a Saurian or one of those TMP Bird dudes? I just wish he'd be more alien-looking. A buttcrack on your forehead is not alien.

Agreed, another alien with an odd forehead got really boring, really fast, seeing as how almost every alien in Star Trek is just a Human with a differently shaped forehead.

But that would require B&B to actually want the aliens to look, you know, alien. From what I understand, it took a massive amount of convincing for Berman to allow Andorians to be re-introduced.
I maintain that the ship's doctor should have been human. Seriously, part of the premise is that humanity is pissed off because the Vulcans won't let us off our leash and the first thing Archer does to demonstrate humans can manage on their own is to hire an alien doctor? :rolleyes:
 
That was probably more to do with Archer's issues specifically with Vulcans, not all aliens.

And Berman was unsure about using Andorians because makeup tech hadn't advanced to the point that the antennae wouldn't look silly. Once he saw it was advanced enough he came around.
 
I never thought the Andorian antennae looked silly. I did think stuff like this looked silly, however....

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x10/movealonghome024.jpg
Wow, an alien whose only visible biological difference from Humans are tattoos on his forehead.

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x18/darkling_025.jpg
Wow, an alien whose only visible biological difference from Humans are the ears (never saw that before have we?). Though don't get me wrong, I love Kes as a character.

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x21/detained_058.jpg
Wow, an alien whose only visible biological difference from Humans are.... ummm, this guy was an alien, wasn't he?

Why couldn't we see more aliens like this....
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x10/Journey_to_Babel_067.JPG
Hmmm.... he has blue skin, pure white hair, and things coming OUT of his head (not painted on it).

Or this....
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s3/3x01/theensignsofcommand172.jpg
Ok, that's clearly NOT Human.
 
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The first 2-3 seasons of TNG had really great aliens, but apparently there was a cut in the makeup budget so they started using more forehead ones (I don't think it was Berman).

The Andorians were changed in TOS itself, we saw one or two in the TOS movies where the antennae clearly came from the forehead. But the movie budget then (and also only seeing those guys for a few seconds) were a different animal from TV use until tech had advanced to the point it was in ENT.

And I think the reason Dean Stockwell looked human was because they didn't want to negate the "Quantum Leap" effect of him and Bakula being in the same room together.
 
Season 4 is what ALL of Enterprise should have been, which is our point. There were 3 seasons of sub-par, Suliban, TCW, Xindi filled mediocrity before we got to the gem of a fourth season.

If Season 4 was Season 1, and the rest of the show continue on in the same way, maybe we'd still be watching it today.

I can't bring myself to watch season 4 again because of the awful mirror universe rubbish. That and the ending which was an abomination. I can't remember any of the other stories since I only watched it once years ago.

Well there was a lot more to it than that! I personally loved the Mirror Universe, and thought that 'In A Mirror Darkly' was a fantastic two-parter, definitely one of the best episodes imo.

The finale, dear god, was beyong an abomination. But the rest of Season 4 was great (though I too, have only seen it once, and its been years for me as well) - they had lots of 3-part story arcs, there was Arik Soong and the Augments, the Klingon story (with the forehead issue finally 'explained'), the story arc set on Vulcan with Surak's katra, and the two parter with... Terra Prime, or whatever they were called, the xenophobic Human terrorist group.

Using an established race for a "Dominion" like mystery role wouldn't work, because WE would already know the truth and would just be annoyed at the show for trying to make them all mysterious when we already know everything.

THAT was why they used the Xindi, because there was an ACTUAL mystery for the audience.

It's the same reason the Romulan War wouldn't work either, too much depended on them not knowing anything about the Romulans even though we already know all there is to know about them. Trying to make an artificial mystery is just annoying.

I thought a prequel was a bad idea from the start, and all this talk about using the Romulans and stuff is just reinforcing that belief.

As for "pandering" to the audience, all that does is give us stuff like Heroes season 3.

We already know everything there is to know about the Romulans, really? Since when? They're an off-shoot of Vulcan, they have an Emperor and a Senate, they have a secret police organisation known as the Tal Shiar, they use cloaking devices and have warbirds, they have a Neutral Zone between them and the Federation - that is pretty much all we've learned about them, in 700 episodes! I maintain that they could do plenty with the Romulans.

But okay, say they don't use the Romulans - what about the Gorn? Or the Tholians? Those are two races established in TOS, who have one episode each - we know NOTHING about them, except what was established in those episodes. Why not use them? You can't say they're not mysterious enough!

And you can't fault us for the prequel idea - it wasn't ours! The OP asked us how we thought it could be a better show, we're just working with what we've got. ;)

I've never seen Heroes, so I still maintain, its a television show, they're supposed to pander to their audience, thats the point.

But Federation has way more worlds and races than those that were shown in TOS and TNG, why would we only see those? Especially when you take out all those that were only encountered in TOS or TNG. And the planets that Earth ships would be likely to encounter in the 22nd century must have been those closer to Earth. They could have featured a few more races that were mentioned in TOS, but I don't think it would have made much of a difference, since in TOS we rarely got to see an alien race that didn't look 100% human (due to budgetary constraints). Was there any episode other than Journey to Babel where we actually got to see Federation races, other than Vulcans, that actually looked alien?

Okay, I can see that you feel very strongly about this issue - and I can agree, to some extent. Seeing more Federation worlds would have been good, but I just don't think the alien-of-the-week format worked for Enterprise. TNG and Voyager could get away with it, but I personally don't think Enterprise should have used that format as frequently as it did.

I think a closer connection between Earth/Starfleet Command (did they still call it Starfleet Command, I can't remember...?) and Enterprise should have been shown - if they're close to Earth (which I agree, would make sense) then they can't just meet alien-x-of-the-week and fly off into the sunset! Starfleet should have made them follow up on those encounters, and try to establish closer diplomatic relationships (or maybe they'd send a slower ship to do that, but then Enterprise would need to come and save the day).

Anything to indicate that they were already building relationships with other worlds, which could eventually lead to trade agreements, then alliances, then joining the Federation.

I'm fairly certain that we saw plenty of Federation worlds in TOS and TNG that were never heard from again (they were those shows aliens-of-the-week) - Enterprise discovering those worlds and making first contact would have shown that this was a prequel andit would still have been interesting!

I agree that it would have been great to have seen the Romulan War. If the first two seasons had been different and seasons 2 or 3 had featured a setup for the war, they could have had the Romulan war as early as season 4. But that was not possible after the way the show had gone for its first couple of seasons. With the lack of direction of the show in the first couple of seasons, especially season 2, they obviously needed something like the Xindi arc to revitalize the show, and it couldn't have been the Romulan war because it hadn't been set up properly. You couldn't have a start of the war and then go back to the Augments and Klingons and Orions and whatnot. The Romulan war would have been very different from the Xindi arc, they couldn't have been any mystery to the enemy and their motivations, and it wouldn't have been over in a season. And it would have been too big to ignore, so if they had started the war, the rest of the show would have to be all about the war. (I also wonder if that could have worked at all, on the budget they had.)

I can understand where you're coming from - but again, the OP asked us what would have made it better, I'm trying to re-work the entire show. I'm proposing my ideas as if we were remaking it from scratch, but still using the original premise and characters.

Also I wanted to disagree with both you and Anwar on the lack of mystery to the Romulans - or even the Klingons for that matter. This is the 2150s, Humans are new to the galaxy, the Federation doesn't even exist yet! If that's so radically different, why are you assuming that the Klingons and Romulans are the same as in TOS or TNG?

The Klingons changed and developed from TOS, through the movies, to TNG, DS9 and Voyager - and I don't just mean their make-up!

I think it would have been interesting to wonder 'what are the Klingons/Romulans like in 2150?', and 'what changes did they undergo to get where they are in TOS?'.

The Romulans could have been warriors, expanding and conquering surrounding space - until they came across the fledgling Humans, with their Vulcan and Andorian buddies, who put them in their place! Maybe thats why the Romulans are so xenophobic, and closed off their borders by the time of TOS.

The Klingons might have been space bullies, with no code of honour whatsoever - again, going off the assumption that they're exactly the same as in TOS and TNG is the wrong idea. The whole idea of a prequel is that we see what came before, we find out what events and circumstances led to the familiar universe of TOS and TNG. I don't think Enterprise did that as well as it could have.
 
And like I said, setting the show in the 2150s was a big problem. You want to see "Humans just starting out" in the Trekverse, then set the show in the 2110s or 2120s. By the 2150s they should've already had contact with all the Fed founder races for a few decades and had a proto-Federation going, not encounter them just then.

The Gorn couldn't be used because their appearance in TOS was the first encounter ever.

The Tholians? Maybe, but then there'd have to be an explanation of why a clearly more advanced species wasn't more of an antagonist in TOS.

I would've just had the enemies in the first two seasons be Human space Pirates, anti-alien xenophobic terrorists, and separatists who want to break the extra-solar colonies away from Earth control. Maybe a touch of the Orion Syndicate, while having the first encounters with the Andorians (whom the Vulcans didn't want Earth to know about). No real alien antagonists.
 
And like I said, setting the show in the 2150s was a big problem. You want to see "Humans just starting out" in the Trekverse, then set the show in the 2110s or 2120s. By the 2150s they should've already had contact with all the Fed founder races for a few decades and had a proto-Federation going, not encounter them just then.

The Gorn couldn't be used because their appearance in TOS was the first encounter ever.

The Tholians? Maybe, but then there'd have to be an explanation of why a clearly more advanced species wasn't more of an antagonist in TOS.

I would've just had the enemies in the first two seasons be Human space Pirates, anti-alien xenophobic terrorists, and separatists who want to break the extra-solar colonies away from Earth control. Maybe a touch of the Orion Syndicate, while having the first encounters with the Andorians (whom the Vulcans didn't want Earth to know about). No real alien antagonists.

I actually really like those ideas! Space Pirates, some more Terra Nova types, more interaction with Earth colonies, and definitely some Orion Syndicate - I can picture them practically running the place before the Federation comes along. Throw in some Section 31, and you have more than enough antagonists for our Starfleet heroes to contend with.

As for the Tholians - that could be explained by the Humans wiping out their advanced weaponry?

But I actually like the idea of setting it in the 2110s or 2120s, and having the aforementioned pirates, terrorists, etc OR keeping it in the 2150s and having a proto-Federation (the Coalition?) and focusing on those early interactions - between the governments of the various member worlds, perhaps Enterprise would be the first inter-species ship and they could focus on the difficulties experienced in learning how to work together.

I think the main thing we can all agree on, is that Enterprise could have done many things to make it a better show. :lol:
 
How would the Humans destroy the advanced Tholian tech? The humans would've been the WEAKEST members of the growing space community with the Vulcans and Andorians as the strongest ones.

This would be why they would tangle with the Orions more: The humans being the weakest ones, makes them easier to prey upon than the superior Vulcans and Andorians.
 
How would the Humans destroy the advanced Tholian tech? The humans would've been the WEAKEST members of the growing space community with the Vulcans and Andorians as the strongest ones.

This would be why they would tangle with the Orions more: The humans being the weakest ones, makes them easier to prey upon than the superior Vulcans and Andorians.

Maybe the Humans asked the Vulcans and Andorians for help - and that was when they decided to expand the Coalition into the Federation?

Otherwise, yeah, tangling with the Orions and getting rid of the whole Xindi/Tholian/whoever arc altogether would work just as well. ;)
 
I'd also have the Vulcan be embroiled in an actual war with the Andorians when the show begins, to explain why they were trying to keep the humans within their own boundaries and not go beyond. They didn't want to have to end up protecting THEM from the Andorians as well an figured the humans could wait until the war was over.

This wouldn't be found out until the second season when first contact with the Andorians happens anyways.

Maybe the Romulans would show up in the last season, but they would be established as another of the regional superpowers instead of the "mystery villain". They are an arrogant Empire than demands tribute from other species for being their "Subjects" and offering them protection. And they refuse to meet with non-Romulans face to face so they use other species as Proxies such as the Remans and occasionally "Vulcans".
 
They should have done Birth of the Federation.

They should not have made Archer such a crybaby wuss (and maybe Bakula should not have been cast).

They should not have made T'Pol a joke from the outset by making her a catsuitted knockoff of Seven of Nine.
I'd also have the Vulcan be embroiled in an actual war with the Andorians when the show begins, to explain why they were trying to keep the humans within their own boundaries and not go beyond. They didn't want to have to end up protecting THEM from the Andorians as well an figured the humans could wait until the war was over.
Good idea. Anything to salvage the way the Vulcans were depicted. They are arrogant and maybe a little bossy but should not be petty and stupid.

For the TCW, they would have to have the same kind of disciplined writing that the Lost writers have shown. Tell us what the rules are, give us some general sense of who the players are and their goals, and stick to the frakkin' rules! Which means be careful about the rules because you're going to have to stick to them. (And yes, so far Lost has stuck to their rules of time travel.)
 
Since the TCW was a UPN mandate and not something anyone on the show wanted, I'd ditch it. I would keep the bit about alien mercenaries getting orders from a shadowy hologram but it would be a Reman hologram, on orders from the Romulans to destabilize their enemies.

They SHOULDN'T do Birth of the Federation, it's too much like Babylon 5. It's best to either set the show decades before the Federation (like my idea, the 2110s or 2120s) or right after it but definately not during the actual Romulan War and founding.

And I'd ditch the "Atomic weapons" thing and have them used fusion missiles, fusion-powered laser cannons and maybe railguns.
 
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Get rid of the TCW altogether. It never went anywhere.

Season 3 should be season 1. Season 4 should be season 2. Then put in more Romulan War stuff in season three and four, and weave some more Birth of the Federation stuff into the last three seasons. Sorted.
 
Get rid of the TCW altogether. It never went anywhere.

Season 3 should be season 1. Season 4 should be season 2. Then put in more Romulan War stuff in season three and four, and weave some more Birth of the Federation stuff into the last three seasons. Sorted.
I'm not sure having a S1 arc would have worked. I was content to get to know the characters as explorers before sending them on a mission where we'd really get to see what they were made of.
 
I agree. I think using S1 as a mostly episodic "introduction" made a lot of sense, though they should have been laying down foundations for later storylines. S2 should have been where they started delving deeper into the show's overarching plot, however, instead of continuing to focus on Alien of the Week episodes.
 
I'd also have the Vulcan be embroiled in an actual war with the Andorians when the show begins, to explain why they were trying to keep the humans within their own boundaries and not go beyond. They didn't want to have to end up protecting THEM from the Andorians as well an figured the humans could wait until the war was over.

This wouldn't be found out until the second season when first contact with the Andorians happens anyways.

Maybe the Romulans would show up in the last season, but they would be established as another of the regional superpowers instead of the "mystery villain". They are an arrogant Empire than demands tribute from other species for being their "Subjects" and offering them protection. And they refuse to meet with non-Romulans face to face so they use other species as Proxies such as the Remans and occasionally "Vulcans".

Great idea Anwar. The Archer/T'Pol/Shran dynamics would have been even more interesting. And then having Shran join the crew (which he was supposed to do in Season 5) would have been a fantastic opportunity for character development, as he learned to get over his hatred and prejudice towards Vulcans (ala Major Kira and the Cardassians, perhaps). ;)
 
I'd say the opposite side would be more intriguing: A vulcan who had hatred and prejudice towards another and had to get over it.
 
They SHOULDN'T do Birth of the Federation, it's too much like Babylon 5.
The right way to do it wouldn't be anything like B5.

It's best to either set the show decades before the Federation (like my idea, the 2110s or 2120s) or right after it but definately not during the actual Romulan War and founding.
There's nothing particularly interesting about that time period. Why not just pick any time period? If you want to do a prequel, choose the most significant time period. Or, don't do a prequel.

The description you wrote sounds pretty much like a BOTF era show, but is the wrong events for the 2110s or 2120s.
 
B5's general story about how a bunch of aliens who distrusted one another uniting against a mysterious foe who had a connection to the arrogant "Elder" race and creating a new Galactic Union is pretty much the Romulan Wars story, only BoTF wouldn't be as epic since B5 aired first.

We don't know anything about those time periods, freeing the writers to to whatever the hell they want. The 2150s are too important and too constricting. This isn't like Star Wars where everyone revolves around the same characters and families.

The 2150s would be too Proto-Federation anyways with the founders already knwoing each other for a long time, setting it much earlier allows for stuff to happen that has nothing to do with the Proto-Federation, the Fed founder aliens or the Romulans without any Canonistas whining about how the whole show should be the BOTF.
 
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