I have been thinking about how close we are in time to Enterprise NX-01's purported launch date in 2150's. Think about this. IF someone now alive lives until 2050 or latter. Their will be people born, whom they will know, who will live to see that year. We are now only ONE degree of separation from possibly, hopefully, knowing people who will travel at high warp.
Problem is, if we're in STar Trek's timeline we might have already watched the first DY ships launch, the Eugenics wars and we'd have 600,000,000 dead to look forward to in a few decades time, plus the post-atomic horrors. I think the Bell Riots should be going on just about now. but on the good news, there's a lot of cool stuff happening now that might well bring us into a REAL space age. I don't need to get to Alpha Centauri in 100 years, but I would like to see the human race start to move out into the solar system.
The Bell riots of 2024 lead to the US expanding a social welfare state that will effectively eliminate poverty here. IRL we have politicians on both sides who argue for various methods of doing just that. That may be the one thing from Trek we can do. At least we got smart phone like devices hundreds of years sooner. I'd love to see us have a craft with the power to change the direction of its orbit from equatorial to polar or to go from LEO to Lunar to Earth Moon Lagrange points on demand.
That only one degree of separation is a nice idea, yes. On the other hand, one degree of separation would still be just about possible with the time of Napoleon as well, if I were 110 now and knew someone in my childhood who was then of that age… still, that time feels a long, long way removed now. Also I agree that while the Trek era would seem fun to live in, the time between now and then seems a bit less so. Though I suppose that in the 90 years between Cochrane's first flight and the Enterprise era the world gradually gets better and better. I'd rather just witness the Enterprise era myself
Really makes you think about how and why things from back them Impact us now AND how what we choose to do with the world now can determine if we ever get out of low Earth orbit. In the world of Trek... we had certainly landed people on Mars by now after all. On the other hand, there are serious scientist looking into the work ability of Warp drive. So we may see IRL an interstellar mission manned or unmanned in our time.
Well, there were serious scientists looking deep into star travel a thousand years ago. We might still be in for a long wait. Why wait for 2150 specifically? Wouldn't 2063 be more interesting overall, with the first warp sortie, the first official alien contact, the first time Earthlings learn there's a source for cool gadgets greater in scope than amazon.com? Timo Saloniemi
Another five some years. It was a social welfare system that create the Sanctuary Districts in the first place. Shelter and food. The Sanctuary Districts and the subsequent Bell Riots were cause by government "services," and not the lack of them. SISKO: What we want is to get out from behind these walls, to stop having to depend on handouts.
We're definitely not in the timeline where the space program continued at the pace (and with the promise) of the 1960's. But there are bad things too, that aren't a part of our timeline.
The sanctuary districts were an inadequate response to social and economic problems - pile all the poor people into the bad end of town and forget about 'em. Therefore, still a lack of services.
I suppose this thread is some kind of "hopeful future thing" for our reality? Is that the intent of the discussion? Do we believe we are ever going to attain the Star Trek universe type of existence that we've seen on television over the last several decades? I don't think there's any chance in hell of that happening. Not at our current state of evolution. There are still way too many things that we allow to divide us as a species. We won't ever have Star Trek type of utopia (if you believe it to be a utopia) until we mature enough to leave all this petty bickering behind and what with humans being humans.... well..............don't see it happening, at least not for a long long time, if ever.
I do. Maybe not with FTL, or teleporters, and I'm not sure our species will ever meet another sentient species out there, but technology DOES improve lives, and we not only should move out into the universe, if we're to survive our own blunders, we have to. If we stay at home on this rock, cooped up and trying to eek out a living off what the sun land and sea will give us, the future generations might eek out a kind of stagnant penitent existence, maybe keep it going for centuries, but won't wipe out the ghost in the machine, the not so better angels of our nature. If we keep going, move on, we can keep one step ahead of it, and THEN we can improve. I think its a stark choice, stay and eventually die out or get out there and thrive. And I think the next century or two are where the most critical choices our species will ever make have to be decided.
I don't agree, and here's why. If the idea was to feed the poor, the sanctuary districts did this, we saw it. If the idea was to house the homeless, the sanctuary districts did this. if the idea was to separate the homeless from gang violence, the sanctuary districts did seem to be trying. There was actual job placement until there was a economic down turn, which would have effect people outside the sanctuary districts too, and wasn't something deliberately aimed at the sanctuary districts residents. At the time of the episode, there were services being provided. Food, shelter, electrical power, water, and access to internet. it's a assumption but likely also sanitation and medical services. When the economy improved (maybe) job placement would return. I very much doubt the people of San Fransisco actively wanted to have the people in the sanctuary to be unemployed. They certainly (most likely) would have loved to stop paying for the sanctuary. There was no indication in the episode that simply being poor would result in being placed in a sanctuary.
Technology can and does improve lives. It can also have the opposite effect. I also question the wisdom of humanity to use that technology safely and appropriately. The tech is moving a lot faster than our ability to control and regulate it. I'm not going to go all "end of the world scenarios" here but I am starting to see the appeal of less tech instead of more. Kinda like Dr Sevrin but without the insanity
Some of the people alive now, in 2019, will die in every year between 2019 and 2119 to 2129. Some of the people alive in 2119 to 2129 will die in every year from 2119 to 2229 and even 2239, so that one degree of separation of overlapping lives can last for 210 to 220 years from 2019 to 2229 and even 2239,seventy or eighty years after the 2150s. In my mother's family there were two or three examples of men living until 168 years after their paternal grandfathers were born. So someone born in 2019 could have a grandson, with one or two degrees of separation in the overlapping lives in different cases, die 168 years later in 2187, which is 30 years after the 2150s. Of course the most famous example of the span from grandfather to grandson is Harrison Ruffin Tyler (born 1928), still alive as far as I know, whose paternal grandfather was president John Tyler (born 1790). This shows that it is possible of a man born in 2019 to have a grandson, with two degrees of separation in the overlapping lifetimes, die as much as 229 years years later in 2248, about 90 years after the 2150s.. Speaking of the time of Napoleon Bonaparte (15 August 1769-5 May 1821), one of his main opponents (and father-in-law) was Emperor Francis II & I (16 February 1768-2 March 1835). Emperor Francis II & I's most famous grandson was Emperor Franz Joseph (18 August 1830-21 November 1916) whose most famous great grand nephew was Crown Prince Otto (20 November 1912-4 July 2011). So there are three members of a family with overlapping lives that cover 243 years. Thus it is possible for someone born in 2019 to have a descendant, with two degrees of separation in their overlapping lifespans, still alive in 2262, about 110 years after the 2150s. James Doohan - Scotty - (March 30, 1920- July 20 2005) married his third wife Wendy Braunberger in 1974 and had children Eric, Thomas, and Sarah who was born in April 2000. Sarah Doohan obviously could live until about 2060 to 2080 without being unusually old, and a number of persons born in each year between 2060 and 2080 can be expected to live to be at least 100 and thus die in the period 2160 to 2180. Of course there are three matters to consider. 1. Star Trek is fictional. 2. IMHO Star trek happens in a alternate universe which diverged from ours even before TOS was made in the 1960s due to many inaccurate historical references. 3. IMHO there is clear evidence that Earth dates in Star Trek productions are given in several different dating systems. Thus the actual fictional dates when Star Trek episodes and movies happen, and thus the time spans from now until they happen, are unknown.
Because Socialism, in any form, never works and never will until/unless humans actually evolve to lose their greed and want of material wealth/money. Otherwise, someone is taken advantage of and loses out. Doctors for example, why would an individual spend 10+ years of their life and $100,000's in student loan/debt to have the government dictate they will only make $40-50k a year? No one in their right mind would, and not just because of our nature. The only way, again, an economy like we see Earth/Starfleet/Federation has will work is if we as humans actually evolve mentally to a point everyone willingly and happily contributes to society. If you're able bodied, you work, you want to work, you want to contribute. As it is now that's not we, as humans, think/feel/work. That's why Socialism will never work in our society anytime in the near (and perhaps distant) future.
Wow, I have never considered that it is a Socialist system in Starfleet. Barter is the currency, so at least there is some trade. But your job is your compensation. On ENT, with no holdeck, it’s just food, drink, and sex if you’re real lucky, or just settle for the Decon Chamber. eesh.