How can these episodes (from TNG, DS9, and ENT) be canon any longer?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by The Rock, May 31, 2019.

  1. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Sure, why not? It would’ve forced CBS to hire expensive, controlling showrunners who wouldn’t just ride on legacy interest in Sarek, Amanda, Spock, Pike, but instead develop characters that could make us forget about TOS. Or CBS hires the wrong people and DSC fails: either way, there’d be no Star Trek for the sake of Star Trek.
     
  2. ozzfloyd

    ozzfloyd Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Glad to know you're the final arbiter of what Trek is and should be.
     
  3. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Thank you. Basically, I see a near-anthology series with the best SF writers of the day exploring new worlds and ideas… oh, and BTW, it’s set in that Star Trek universe, could’ve fooled me, but look, it does say “Star Trek” in the subtitle. No pre-release hype, no tie-is, nothing, just the stories themselves bringing in viewers.
     
  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I happen to think "Balance of Terror" is a great episode. I judge what I'm watching in the context of when it was made and by whether or not they made the best episode or movie they could with the resources they had available at the time. And "Balance of Terror", just like several other episodes, delivered.

    If "The Vulcan Hello" settled for only looking like TOS, then I'd know that they did not put together the best product they could've with the resources available to the current production team.

    I'm going to refrain from wondering how about how DSC could've worked in the 25th Century until I've seen Picard. A hostile Klingon Empire where the concept of peace with them is totally foreign and a Terran Empire in its savage prime are both things more conductive to a 23rd Century setting. Had Planet of the Titans been made, the Crossfield Class Starship also would've been a 23rd Century design, as far back as the '70s.

    A series set post-2387 and in the wake of Romulus' destruction is what I thought we'd get when a sixth Star Trek series was first announced in November 2015. Even though I didn't think we'd ever see Picard again, Picard is actually more along the lines of what I initially thought we'd see. At least as a setting. That wasn't the story they wanted to tell with DSC, so I don't have an issue with them setting it when they did. In fact, it probably worked out for the better, because Picard doesn't have to worry about what another series did when it tackles post-Nemesis, post-Hobus head on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    PiotrB and Dry Bones 37 like this.
  5. Trekkie27

    Trekkie27 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    I understand there are parallel timelines, so the TOS et al would be the original one, and the Abramsverse a second one. IOW, those episodes are canon in one timeline though not the other.
     
  6. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Which is where this plan falls apart. Perhaps when it is our millions of dollars on the line we will regard it differently.
     
  7. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    That is... Not a good look.
     
  8. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Location:
    Suomi Finland
    I didn't go through the entire thread but I'll say this: You can decide for yourself what is canon and what isn't.
     
    ozzfloyd and Lord Garth like this.
  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    But that isn’t how canon works.

    You can have head canon, or ignore what you don’t like. But that isn’t canon.
     
    JonnyQuest037 likes this.
  10. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    If you're not gonna tie into the Trek lore, might as well make an original sci-fi series.
     
    Trekkie27 likes this.
  11. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It can’t be an original series because conceptually it’s still going to feel like Star Trek, just not one where writers are looking back to elements other writers have established, but rather creating their own on equal footing. Someone had to create the Klingons. Someone had to create the Borg. You want to be that someone creating the next successful element (or failing in the process), not just a writer remixing the lore for ratings. Give the audience what they didn’t know they wanted, surprise them and get them out of their comfort zone.
     
  12. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    We'll circle around back to this once S2 is completely out of the Spoiler-Warning Zone.
     
    Ricky Spanish and 1001001 like this.
  13. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Location:
    Suomi Finland
    All the Trek I want to watch is canon for me.
    May not be "official" to anyone else than me but works for me.
     
  14. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Parsippany, New Jersey, USA
    That's not what canon is, though. One more time for the people in the back: Fans do not decide what canon is. You're talking about personal continuity.
     
    Ricky Spanish and Dry Bones 37 like this.
  15. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Location:
    Suomi Finland
    Personal continuity may be better than any canon.
     
  16. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    It may be but that doesn't change the terms.
     
  17. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I'm going to have to ever-so-slightly disagree. Since I told someone stupid stuff should be ignored when they said "canon is canon". It sounds too much like "rules is rules" (and I hate bureaucrats because sometimes I think judgment calls have to be made and they just won't do it). I'm not a stickler when it comes to things I think are ridiculous.

    It's mostly limited to things like sexism in TOS, Warp 10 in "Threshold" and Humans evolving into Salamanders, the Enterprise-A having 78 decks and being able to travel to the center of the galaxy. Things like that. Not "This series I don't like isn't canon!" or "I ignore everything after _____!"
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  18. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Perhaps canon exists on a continuum? ;)

    I agree that it binary arguments are not productive, nor do I think all that appears on screen is canon, as that would allow for some rather odd canonical things in terms of production bloopers and the like.

    I think that's why these discussions are not always fruitful. It is very much a judgement call and that judgement will vary from person to person. It is most certainly not binary, black or white, good or bad.
     
  19. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Location:
    Suomi Finland
    It's easy, if you like it, watch it, if you don't, skip it. :)
     
    Lord Garth likes this.
  20. Dry Bones 37

    Dry Bones 37 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    It depends.