Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

[kirk55555]

Intimate Stranger (Xena) - Watched until Xena was dreaming that she was in the underworld, when I turned it off. I thought it was an episode that was going to be 99% pointless dreaming, with some resolution in the real world at the end. Looking at the Xena wiki entry for the episode, I was wrong and it eventually does stuff in the real world. But, I really don't want to see a stupid body swap episode with all the stupid cliches that brings, so I'm not going back. Note that I'm not skipping it because of Callisto, I'm skipping it because the beginning sucks and I don't like stupid body swap stories.

I might also skip the next episode. I know why Xena is suck in Callisto's body in the next episode, but I figure I might as well wait until things are back to normal and skip the second (and last) part of this body swap story. I think it would just irritate me anyway.

 

[OmahaStar]

Just out of curiosity, why are you bothering to watch? You keep skipping episodes that provide new character depth. If you're going to miss so much (and you never know what might come back), why bother?

 

[kirk55555]

Just out of curiosity, why are you bothering to watch? You keep skipping episodes that provide new character depth. If you're going to miss so much (and you never know what might come back), why bother?

I'm about 31 episodes in, and skipped maybe 3-4 episodes. Besides, Xena isn't exactly Babylon 5 when it comes to story arc. Its not anywhere near connected enough that skipping an episode or two effects my viewing of the show. Sure, somethings will come back later, but its not like I miss anything important and the show tends to explain things pretty well. I can easily keep watching and enjoying the show without seeing Hudson Leick try to play Xena, or watching the one millionth "This is your life if you changed something important" story in fiction.

I'm not missing anything of importance, and in the end my purpose in watching Xena is to have fun watching it. If one or two episodes get thrown out because of that, that's really my prerogative. I'm not trying to win some kind of prize for sitting through every single episode of Xena and Hercules. If something sounds bad, or starts out very badly, then my 45 minutes can be better spent on the next episode. I'm still watching at least 90% of the episodes. You can enjoy a show and not want to see every episode. If I was planning to watch TNG all the way through, I'd be skipping more episodes of it than I have of Xena, especially in the first two seasons. I'll skip an episode if it sounds bad or becomes intolerable when I try to watch it, something that doesn't happen very often, as seen by the fact that I usually just power through bad episodes.

Also, Xena having generic angst over doing the first smart thing she'd done since she met Callisto isn't particularly compelling character development. I read the wiki. There is no development of Callisto, and I saw Xena's development in the 10 or so minutes I watched of Intimate Stranger. She's depressed over doing the right thing, and Ares torments her with dreams. Callisto steals her body, the standard hijinks for this kind of story happen, and Callisto gets dragged back to hell while Leick sticks around as Xena because Lawless got hurt. It has body swapping and long dream sequences, both things I hate unless they're done extremely well, which they weren't or I wouldn't have given up on the episode.

I now plan to continue to watch Xena and enjoy it, even if I end up skipping the next episode to get to the real Xena returning

 

[Forbin]

Well, I found those eps enjoyable because of how well Hudson acted like Xena. And, well, I just like everything Hudson does on the show.

 

[JD]

I couldn't imagine purposefully skipping episodes of a show I've never seen before. If I haven't seen a show before I'm going to watch every episode, so I can get the full experience. Even bad episode sometimes have something to offer. The only way I could maybe see myself skipping an episode is if it was a recap episode or a clip show with no new content at all.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, my skipping doesn't really have a rule, although I think skipping clipshows will be something i do, since Hercules and Xena seemed to do them at least once a season. Basically, I try to watch shows without skipping episodes (I didn't skip even one episode during my Babylon 5 watch), but for Xena there have just been a few episodes I felt were a waste of time. For example, Remember Nothing is the "person changes time to fix mistake, but finds out it makes things worse" story, and i've seen it what feels like a million times. It can be done very well (like TNG's Tapestry), but I didn't find the idea very interesting when it came to Xena. Sometimes an episode just really ticks me off in the beginning, which is why Intimate Stranger got turned off fairly quickly. I don't necessarily skip bad episodes, just ones that either have a bad premise or that make me angry enough (and being a bad episode by itself isn't generally enough to get me to turn off an episode).

I haven't decided whether to skip Ten Little Warlords yet, but honestly its likely. I'm watching the show to see the adventures of Xena, played by Lucy Lawless, not Hudson Leick. I may not have a problem with Callisto anymore, but I also have no desire to see an episode with Callisto's actress trying to play Xena. Next time I put the DVD in, I'll decide how I feel. I definitely plan to watch the episode after it, though. I don't want skipping to be a regular thing (and it really hasn't been so far).

That said, I will not be watching The Xena Scrolls, which is coming up soon. A clip show set in both 1940 and 1996, that kind of breaks the fourth wall? No way. Just reading the long summary on the Xena wiki annoyed me, plus like I said I skip clip shows.

 

[Timewalker]

Warrior...Princess...Tramp (Xena) - This was a very entertaining episode involving Xena and two of her lookalikes (Princess Diana, who we've seen before, and Meg, a new lookalike). Lawless did a great job of playing three different people, and playing the lookalikes trying to play other versions. Joxer was entertaining in this episode, I think you could say I'm a fan of the character by now. Seeing the different characters interact and get into confrontations was entertaining, and there were some great moments. The near end scene where the bad guy has Diana's baby was pretty cool. Both Diana and Meg, dressed as xena, try to bluff the bad guys, and fail. Then, Xena comes in (dressed as Diana) and goes "Guess which one I am", which was great Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. It took the concept of the Xena lookalikes, and made a very entertaining episode out of it.

I'm glad you're more positive about Joxer.

Agreed about the shows set in the 20th century. I don't care for them.

 

[OmahaStar]

That said, I will not be watching The Xena Scrolls, which is coming up soon. A clip show set in both 1940 and 1996, that kind of breaks the fourth wall? No way. Just reading the long summary on the Xena wiki annoyed me, plus like I said I skip clip shows.

I would urge you to reconsider. Xena Scrolls sets up at least a half-dozen episodes that come later in the series, and is a pretty big episode when it comes to Ares' future. There is no fourth-wall breaking. Whoever said that was misleading you.

 

[kirk55555]

That said, I will not be watching The Xena Scrolls, which is coming up soon. A clip show set in both 1940 and 1996, that kind of breaks the fourth wall? No way. Just reading the long summary on the Xena wiki annoyed me, plus like I said I skip clip shows.

I would urge you to reconsider. Xena Scrolls sets up at least a half-dozen episodes that come later in the series, and is a pretty big episode when it comes to Ares' future. There is no fourth-wall breaking. Whoever said that was misleading you.

The episode ends with someone pitching the show Xena to Robert Tapert. I definitely said it wrong when I said it "broke the fourth wall", but I don't know what you call it when the actual creator of a show is in an episode getting the show he's in pitched to him

Also, I know Ares is locked in a cave at some point never shown in the show (which is certainly very important ). When they aren't showing old clips, he goes out and attacks ancestors of Xena, Gabrielle and Joxer, who all look like them of course (seriously, even in a fantasy show that breaks my suspension of disbelief). I also HATE when shows do something like that, having a random episode in a different time period and having the main cast playing different people (DS9's bizarre "Sisko is a Sci Fi writer in Earth's past" episode was what really made me despise this type of thing). Xena's "ancestor" then gets possessed by Xena's spirit and defeats Ares.

All of that sounds horrible, and besides which, like I said, I refuse to watch people playing other characters in a different time period on an established show. It doesn't come up often, but like the DS9 episodes that did it I'm staying far, far away from this. Plus, its a clip show, so I've already seen 50% of the episode, and when the other 50% is absolutely unappealing to me, this episode never had a chance. If it actually is setting up a half dozen episodes, then I know a few more episodes I'll be skipping in the future.

 

[OmahaStar]

I give up. Which should be fine for you, since you keep doing it. Don't ask for opinions from others, when you don't care.

 

[kirk55555]

I give up. Which should be fine for you, since you keep doing it. Don't ask for opinions from others, when you don't care.

I never asked peoples opinions on what episodes I should watch or skip, or people's opinion on my skipping episodes. I'm the one watching the shows, and I'm doing it because I enjoy them, not because I feel the need to watch every episode. The only things I've given up on are episodes that I was hating while watching them. You don't quit when you skip an episode altogether though, because you never start them. I like both Hercules and Xena, and I'm far from quitting either of them.

Really the only thing I've already given up on overall is that, as far as I'm concerned, Xena ends with Season 4. So, yeah, when I get there (I still have more than half of Season 2 and all of Season 3 to go, and I need to buy Season 4 anyway) and finish that, then I could see someone being able to say I was giving up on something, because I will be. But, skipping a few episodes is really not a big deal, I don't get why people get so worked up about it. I'm watching the show to enjoy it, not to get annoyed and waste 45 minutes.

 

[kirk55555]

Ten Little Warlords (Xena) - I decided to watch this episode, and I'm glad I did. Xena (in Callisto's body) has to help Ares get his godhood back. While he is without his powers, non violent humans are starting to become violent, leading to some entertaining scenes with Gabrielle and Joxer. Leick did a decent job playing Xena, although obviously Lawless is still the better Xena. It was interesting to see Sisyphus as one of the people behind the plot of the episode. It was very interesting to see Ares without his powers in this episode, he's definitely one of the better recurring villains. Overall this was a very good episode, I'm glad I decided to watch it.

 

[kirk55555]

A Solstice Carol (Xena) - This was a very entertaining christmas special. Xena and Gabrielle have to convince an old king to be nicer, and they do it by making him believe he's being visited by the three Fates. Along the way they get help from a toymaker named Senticles, and even run into a baby at the end who is probably supposed to be Jesus. Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. I'm a fan of christmas specials, especially adaptations of A Christmas Carol, and this was done well.

 

[JD]

Well, my skipping doesn't really have a rule, although I think skipping clipshows will be something i do, since Hercules and Xena seemed to do them at least once a season. Basically, I try to watch shows without skipping episodes (I didn't skip even one episode during my Babylon 5 watch), but for Xena there have just been a few episodes I felt were a waste of time. For example, Remember Nothing is the "person changes time to fix mistake, but finds out it makes things worse" story, and i've seen it what feels like a million times. It can be done very well (like TNG's Tapestry), but I didn't find the idea very interesting when it came to Xena. Sometimes an episode just really ticks me off in the beginning, which is why Intimate Stranger got turned off fairly quickly. I don't necessarily skip bad episodes, just ones that either have a bad premise or that make me angry enough (and being a bad episode by itself isn't generally enough to get me to turn off an episode).

I haven't decided whether to skip Ten Little Warlords yet, but honestly its likely. I'm watching the show to see the adventures of Xena, played by Lucy Lawless, not Hudson Leick. I may not have a problem with Callisto anymore, but I also have no desire to see an episode with Callisto's actress trying to play Xena. Next time I put the DVD in, I'll decide how I feel. I definitely plan to watch the episode after it, though. I don't want skipping to be a regular thing (and it really hasn't been so far).

That said, I will not be watching The Xena Scrolls, which is coming up soon. A clip show set in both 1940 and 1996, that kind of breaks the fourth wall? No way. Just reading the long summary on the Xena wiki annoyed me, plus like I said I skip clip shows.

Personally, if just the descriptions of episodes of a show sound so bad to me that I can't even bring myself to watch them, then it's probably not even worth watching the show. If I enjoy a show enough to watch multiple episodes then I'm gonna be willing to sit through a few potentially bad episodes.

That said, I will not be watching The Xena Scrolls, which is coming up soon. A clip show set in both 1940 and 1996, that kind of breaks the fourth wall? No way. Just reading the long summary on the Xena wiki annoyed me, plus like I said I skip clip shows.

11

I would urge you to reconsider. Xena Scrolls sets up at least a half-dozen episodes that come later in the series, and is a pretty big episode when it comes to Ares' future. There is no fourth-wall breaking. Whoever said that was misleading you.

The episode ends with someone pitching the show Xena to Robert Tapert. I definitely said it wrong when I said it "broke the fourth wall", but I don't know what you call it when the actual creator of a show is in an episode getting the show he's in pitched to him

Also, I know Ares is locked in a cave at some point never shown in the show (which is certainly very important ). When they aren't showing old clips, he goes out and attacks ancestors of Xena, Gabrielle and Joxer, who all look like them of course (seriously, even in a fantasy show that breaks my suspension of disbelief). I also HATE when shows do something like that, having a random episode in a different time period and having the main cast playing different people (DS9's bizarre "Sisko is a Sci Fi writer in Earth's past" episode was what really made me despise this type of thing). Xena's "ancestor" then gets possessed by Xena's spirit and defeats Ares.

All of that sounds horrible, and besides which, like I said, I refuse to watch people playing other characters in a different time period on an established show. It doesn't come up often, but like the DS9 episodes that did it I'm staying far, far away from this. Plus, its a clip show, so I've already seen 50% of the episode, and when the other 50% is absolutely unappealing to me, this episode never had a chance. If it actually is setting up a half dozen episodes, then I know a few more episodes I'll be skipping in the future.

That sounds great. I love when shows do that kind of stuff.

 

[kirk55555]

Personally, if just the descriptions of episodes of a show sound so bad to me that I can't even bring myself to watch them, then it's probably not even worth watching the show. If I enjoy a show enough to watch multiple episodes then I'm gonna be willing to sit through a few potentially bad episodes.

That works sometimes, but it depends on the show. For something like Babylon 5, it makes sense. But if someone was watching, for example, TNG, I could think of many easily skippable episodes just from descriptions that would be completely justified (Sub Rosa immediately comes to mind). Xena isn't so arc based, at least so far, that skipping an episode here or there really matters. I ended up watching and enjoying Ten Little Warlords, but after watching it if I had skipped it all I would have missed was a good episode, but nothing important to the series overall.

Speaking of skipping, I went against my better judgement and watched

The Xena Scrolls - This wasn't as successful as Ten Little Warlords, but it wasn't bad like I expected it would be. Covington was pretty annoying (much more than Gabrielle has been in a long time, funnily enough) and Lawless's accent as Melinda Pappas was irritaiting, but the story had a few interesting moments. It wasn't great, and really outside of Ares fate (which was easily told in a summary) the episode was not very important, but it wasn't a complete waste of time. I'd say it was slightly above mediocre. Worth watching, but probably only once.

 

[JD]

I guess for me it's not necisarily about story arcs, so much as experiencing the show as it was meant to be experienced when it was originally produced. In my mind, if I wasn't supposed to watch an episode then it wouldn't have been produced.I'll be completely honest, and admit that I have been skipping some of the crappy Trek episodes during rewatches. But I've already watched the shows a whole bunch of times, so I already know that I don't want to watch them again. But I did watch them once at least before coming to that decision.
Besides, sometimes the writing. or directing, or acting can still save an episode, or there could be one or two good scenes that make up for the rest of the episode.

 

[Forbin]

Story arc doesn't matter if an episode is enjoyable.

That said, there were a ton of Voyager eps I skipped based on the TVGuide description (usually anything that started with "The Doctor..."), so I can understand it.

 

[kirk55555]

I guess for me it's not necisarily about story arcs, so much as experiencing the show as it was meant to be experienced when it was originally produced. In my mind, if I wasn't supposed to watch an episode then it wouldn't have been produced.I'll be completely honest, and admit that I have been skipping some of the crappy Trek episodes during rewatches. But I've already watched the shows a whole bunch of times, so I already know that I don't want to watch them again. But I did watch them once at least before coming to that decision.
Besides, sometimes the writing. or directing, or acting can still save an episode, or there could be one or two good scenes that make up for the rest of the episode.

Eh, I tend to think that every show has bad episodes that even the people working on it know aren't any good. From what I've heard, TNG's Code of Honor was pretty obviously terrible even to the people working on it at the time. Of course every episode released of a show is something that was made to be watched, shows don't just go out of there way to make an episode with the goal being to make it so bad people don't watch. But, the intention doesn't mean every episode is worth watching. There are a bunch of factors involved, and even great shows put of completely abominable episodes.

Its nothing against Xena. Most of my favorite shows have episodes that I'd recommend people skip. If I could go back in time and tell myself not to watch Buffy The vampire Slayer's Beer Bad, I'd do it in a second To me, one of the advantages of watching these shows years after they came out, besides being able to watch them on DVD, is to be a bit more informed about them than people at the time were. I still plan to watch most of it, and I enjoy the show, but in the end being able to skip an episode and immediately go to the next one is something I consider an advantage of watching it on DVD, so if I feel I should do it, I feel that I can do it without effecting my overall enjoyment of the show.

 

[Forbin]

Beer Bad was worth it just to see Parker get klonked.

 

[kirk55555]

The Sword of Veracity (Hercules) - This was an ok episode with some annoying parts. Hercules's friend Amphion was pretty annoying. He almost let his ideals kill a bunch of innocent people, and when he gave in to save them, he apologized for not letting them die (and keep in mind, they wanted him to save them, not to stick to his ideals). So, his parts were annoying, and his fiance was too. Still, the story was ok, there was a good fight scene against a couple of minotaurs, and the sword itself (which makes people tell the truth) lead to some funny scenes. Overall, this was an ok episode, but its held back by some irritating parts.