Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

[kirk55555]

Well, I can understand that. But, I don't think they needed to make the baby a recurring character. Just say she got drunk and slept with Ares, and then gives the baby away to hid it from him.

All of that would be profoundly out of character for Xena, and Ares is a god - there's nowhere to hide a baby from him!

Do you feel this way about babies in general (as characters) or just on Xena?

Well, I don't watch much with babies in it. I thought the babies worked decently for Chief O'brien and his wife on DS9, so I'm not against the idea, although I'd never want babies as a consistant character on a show. I can see how it was a hard problem for Xena's writers to solve. With the way the show works, they either had to not film for most of a year, or hand wave it away.

That said, they didn't need to make her real life pregnancy into an idiotic story idea. Xena getting pregnant because of Ares still makes more sense than that jerk Callisto using the Force to grow a magic baby inside Xena that she doesn't even end up raising, which just grows up to be Callisto mark 2 Heck, just saying Xena was getting fat because she ticked off a god would be better than Eve from what I read. Or, maybe Ares made her magically pregnant (if callisto can do it, ares can), then tries to steal the baby, but Xena manages to hide it from him, never to be talked about again. Still, like I said, it doesn't matter. I'll never see it, so as far as I'm concerned it never happens.

 

[Timewalker]

Well, I can understand that. But, I don't think they needed to make the baby a recurring character. Just say she got drunk and slept with Ares, and then gives the baby away to hid it from him.

All of that would be profoundly out of character for Xena, and Ares is a god - there's nowhere to hide a baby from him!

Do you feel this way about babies in general (as characters) or just on Xena?

Well, I don't watch much with babies in it. I thought the babies worked decently for Chief O'brien and his wife on DS9, so I'm not against the idea, although I'd never want babies as a consistant character on a show. I can see how it was a hard problem for Xena's writers to solve. With the way the show works, they either had to not film for most of a year, or hand wave it away.

That said, they didn't need to make her real life pregnancy into an idiotic story idea. Xena getting pregnant because of Ares still makes more sense than that jerk Callisto using the Force to grow a magic baby inside Xena that she doesn't even end up raising, which just grows up to be Callisto mark 2 Heck, just saying Xena was getting fat because she ticked off a god would be better than Eve from what I read. Or, maybe Ares made her magically pregnant (if callisto can do it, ares can), then tries to steal the baby, but Xena manages to hide it from him, never to be talked about again. Still, like I said, it doesn't matter. I'll never see it, so as far as I'm concerned it never happens.

Well, I dislike Eve too, but for different reasons. However, I've actually seen the episodes, so I can confidently say that you would be denying yourself a good viewing experience.

 

[kirk55555]

If you're talking about Callisto episodes, then you underestimate how much I hate her. The actress/performance comes off like she should be playing a paris hilton-like character (a spoiled rich girl who'd be trying to kill Xena because she's bored), and I think even the average child actors are more threatening than her. If you're talking about me not watching Seasons 5 and 6, the popular opinion on them that I've seen online seems to be that they're pretty bad, especially the last season, which is why (combined with learning about Eve) I decided that, if I make it to season 4 of Xena, I'll stop there.

 

[Timewalker]

If you're talking about Callisto episodes, then you underestimate how much I hate her. The actress/performance comes off like she should be playing a paris hilton-like character (a spoiled rich girl who'd be trying to kill Xena because she's bored), and I think even the average child actors are more threatening than her. If you're talking about me not watching Seasons 5 and 6, the popular opinion on them that I've seen online seems to be that they're pretty bad, especially the last season, which is why (combined with learning about Eve) I decided that, if I make it to season 4 of Xena, I'll stop there.

I've always preferred to make up my own mind and not let others' negative reviews make up my mind for me, but it's your loss. Callisto goes through an amazing number of changes throughout the series, and she's one of those characters people love to hate - in the sense of a good villain. She's not evil merely for the sake of being evil; she does have motives that are understandable, twisted though they are.

And since you dislike Gabrielle, wouldn't you like to see Callisto and Gabrielle going after each other?

 

[kirk55555]

Well, Gabrielle was tolerable by the end of Season 1. I'm hopeful she may become a character I outright like at this rate

As for Callisto, I like the idea behind the character (one of Xena's victims becomes a villain), but she's too crazy, so she gets none of the sympathy the character needs. Also, she was really, really miscast, so as a villain she's not the least bit threatening. With a better actress and writing she could have been very good, but the actress would fit better with a spoiled brat character (which is how she seems to be playing callisto personality wise, with a bit of second rate Joker mixed in) and does nothing but tick me off. Like I said, I've give her second episode about 10 minutes to give me a reason to keep watching, but that's it.

Now, back to episodes I've watched

Cast A Giant Shadow (Hercules) - This was a great episode, and a follow up to Mother of All Monsters. Hercules frees a very friendly giant, who turns out to be the husband of Echidna. Hera had trapped him so that his wife and kids would basically start causing terror. The episode was very entertaining, with Ioalus having a great chase/escape scene and the giant being an interesting character.

 

[OmahaStar]

Cast A Giant Shadow (Hercules) - This was a great episode, and a follow up to Mother of All Monsters. Hercules frees a very friendly giant, who turns out to be the husband of Echidna.

Every time that giant is on screen, I'm hoping the characters break out into a bit of "Day-O!"

Weirder things have happened on that show!

 

[Forbin]

I don't want to spoil it, but there's a Callisto ep of Hercules where she discovers something about that day that Xena killed her family that just... I can't believe they did it. It takes a lot to shock me, but... wow.

 

[Naira]

They are both nice shows, as long as you don't take them seriously. Being Greek and a fan of our mythology, at first they seemed kind of ridiculous to me with all these inaccuracies. However, I liked Xena's character and I ended up enjoying that show a lot (until the last seasons where the show was "stretched" a lot). Hercules was OK too, but not as good.

 

[kirk55555]

Orphan of War (Xena) - This is the first episode of the second season, and its very good. Xena returns to a village of people/Centaur she had fought in the past, to stop a bad guy from getting a gem that would give him mystical power. while there, we learn that Xena had a son, who she left in the village as a baby. The episode was done well, and the child actor wasn't annoying. Lawless put in an especially good performance, and they did a good job pulling off the emotional aspects of the episode. Overall, it was a great way to start the season.

 

[Merlanthe]

Just a suggestion here. Kirk55555 doesnt like Callisto but is willing to watch first 10 minutes of her next epsiode to see if she gets any better but others have already stated that she wont really be any different in the next episode because her character development is slow going accross many episodes.

How about instead people suggest which Callisto episode she starts to noticably change in and become complex villain and Kirk55555 can just skip the callisto episodes til then and watch first 10 minutes of the suggested episode.

That way Kirk55555 wouldnt waste time watching 10 mins of an epsiode where Callisto is no different and might fidn her more to their liking and be inclined to watching more Callisto episodes. This is only a suggestion.

 

[Forbin]

Tough call! The big shocker for me was the revellation of what really happened during Xena's attack on her village during the Hercules 2-parter Armageddon Now.

But there's so MUCH to her arc!

 

[kirk55555]

Highway to Hades (Hercules) - This was an entertaining, if kind of standard adventure. Hercules had to save a murdered guy's soul by taking Sisyphus to Hades, where he was supposed to be before he caused the other guy to get killed instead. The murdered guy, Timuron, comes along with hercules and Iolaus as a spirit, which leads to a few good jokes because half the time only Hercules can see Timuron. Overall, this wasn't great, but it was an entertaining adventure.

 

[DWF]

Just a suggestion here. Kirk55555 doesnt like Callisto but is willing to watch first 10 minutes of her next epsiode to see if she gets any better but others have already stated that she wont really be any different in the next episode because her character development is slow going accross many episodes.

How about instead people suggest which Callisto episode she starts to noticably change in and become complex villain and Kirk55555 can just skip the callisto episodes til then and watch first 10 minutes of the suggested episode.

That way Kirk55555 wouldnt waste time watching 10 mins of an epsiode where Callisto is no different and might fidn her more to their liking and be inclined to watching more Callisto episodes. This is only a suggestion.

In her next appearance on Xena she is different but she starts out the same, so it'll be a mixed bag.

 

[kirk55555]

Remember Nothing (Xena) - Skipped. If I wanted a good TV version of the "Character gets past changed to fix a supposed problem, then see's that the future would be worse if the event hadn't happened/happened differently" story, I'd just rewatch TNG's excellent "Tapestry" again. Reading the summary on the Hercules/.Xena wiki, it would have just annoyed me anyway.

The Giant Killer (Xena) - This one was a mixed bag. The overall story was good, but the "one god" religion is back, and becomes literally preachy at points. I wanted to just throw a shoe through my TV when David started spouting actual religious stuff. I would have accepted the story as is, even as an adaptation of an old religious story, if they'd just taken out the annoying religious stuff with David.

It wouldn't have been something I'd comment on, except that, like the last time it came up, its used in such a way that its just completely irritating and takes me out of the story. Its not that they basically have a group of people based on a still practiced religion in the show, its how they go about it. I'd be fine with them if it wasn't used as such a big focus. If the episode had just been about the giant stuff, it would have been fine. As it is, David and the religious stuff dragged it down to an ok episode with some horrible parts.

I'm trying to watch a Xena episode, the only gods that should be around are the greek ones. Basically, if the show can't make the "one god" religion characters compelling, or at least not annoying, they should just stop. If they could do it without making the whole episode about the group, and toned down the "you totally know who we are, now listen to our religious stuff" vibe, I think it would work out a lot better.

 

[kirk55555]

Girls Just Want to Have Fun Xena) - This episode was really bad. The premise was decent, Gabrielle basically becomes a vampire and Xena has to make sure it isn't permanent, but the episode was put together very poorly. There was a lot of slow motion shots that were done like the camera man was having a seizure in slow motion. Several action scenes were ruined by it, and it made a few unbelievably long scenes of people partying even more obnoxious. Half this episode was irritating "stylized" stuff, and it really made a large portion of the episode intolerable. The whole "dance party" might just be the most aggravating, pointless scene in the show so far. Orpheus was interesting, and Joxer was ok, they both had some good scenes.

The vampires, though, were really goofy. They spoke with lisps because of the giant fangs in their mouths, which means that the second one talked to Bacchus they immediately lost what sense of menace they had. I'm torn on Bacchus. On one hand, the design was cool. On the other hand, it was more of a devil design then a design for the god of wine. Overall, this episode could have been a lot more entertaining. In the end, it was just a decent premise and a few good characters in an episode that must have been edited by brain dead sheep.

Return of Callisto (Xena) - This episode wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, and my complaints actually aren't related to Callisto. I don't know why it was different, but Callisto felt more like a legitimate threat this episode, and she seemed like a more legitimate psychotic villain. The big problem with this episode was the Gabrielle/Perdicus stuff. Besides the fact that the "will they or won't they get married stuff" was just boring (and predictably), it was instantly obvious to me that Callisto would end up killing Perdicus, which she did. Joxer was pretty good in this episode, I think he's growing on me as a character.

The chariot race at the end was ok, but it felt a little long. I was surprised that Xena let Callisto die, but I know she'll be back. After this episode, I don't think I'll skip a Callisto episode unless one ends up being really intolerable. I'm still not exactly a fan, but Callisto was able to redeem herself (as a villain in a show, not in universe obviously). This ended up being a decent episode, held back by the predictable Gabrielle stuff.

 

[Timewalker]

Return of Callisto (Xena) - This episode wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, and my complaints actually aren't related to Callisto. I don't know why it was different, but Callisto felt more like a legitimate threat this episode, and she seemed like a more legitimate psychotic villain. The big problem with this episode was the Gabrielle/Perdicus stuff. Besides the fact that the "will they or won't they get married stuff" was just boring (and predictably), it was instantly obvious to me that Callisto would end up killing Perdicus, which she did. Joxer was pretty good in this episode, I think he's growing on me as a character.

The chariot race at the end was ok, but it felt a little long. I was surprised that Xena let Callisto die, but I know she'll be back. After this episode, I don't think I'll skip a Callisto episode unless one ends up being really intolerable. I'm still not exactly a fan, but Callisto was able to redeem herself (as a villain in a show, not in universe obviously). This ended up being a decent episode, held back by the predictable Gabrielle stuff.

We are basically in agreement on this. I didn't buy the relationship between Gabrielle and Perdicus for a second. In almost any other TV show Callisto would have been rescued. The fact that she wasn't has long-term consequences, so please don't skip any more Callisto episodes.

 

[kirk55555]

We are basically in agreement on this. I didn't buy the relationship between Gabrielle and Perdicus for a second. In almost any other TV show Callisto would have been rescued. The fact that she wasn't has long-term consequences, so please don't skip any more Callisto episodes.

I actually haven't skipped any Callisto episodes. This was the show's chance to convince me not to skip them in the future, and it succeeded with that, regardless of its flaws.

 

[Timewalker]

Excellent!

 

[kirk55555]

Warrior...Princess...Tramp (Xena) - This was a very entertaining episode involving Xena and two of her lookalikes (Princess Diana, who we've seen before, and Meg, a new lookalike). Lawless did a great job of playing three different people, and playing the lookalikes trying to play other versions. Joxer was entertaining in this episode, I think you could say I'm a fan of the character by now. Seeing the different characters interact and get into confrontations was entertaining, and there were some great moments. The near end scene where the bad guy has Diana's baby was pretty cool. Both Diana and Meg, dressed as xena, try to bluff the bad guys, and fail. Then, Xena comes in (dressed as Diana) and goes "Guess which one I am", which was great Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. It took the concept of the Xena lookalikes, and made a very entertaining episode out of it.

 

[Forbin]

It must be interesting as an actress to play one of the lookalikes pretending to be one of the other lookalikes.

Tatyana Mislany is really good at that.