"Hell Bent" Grade and discussion thread

[Romulan_spy]

Or more of a sense of adventure. As a fan, of course I'll take exploration of the show's mythology or delving into the psyche of the Doctor. But the average viewer wants to see fun adventure or they'll just flip the channel.

Yes, more adventure!! But I would love it too if there was a more consistent story arc that tied together the individual adventures. The Key of Time arc with the 4th Doctor is a good example of what I am talking about. Each episode was an adventure but there was a clear purpose that tied it all together. In fact, I thought we were going to get something like that with the Search for Gallifrey.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yeah, it is a big puzzler. I'm not sure that was the motivation, maybe it was, but that seems to be what the end result was. He knows he's lost Clara but is less sad.

The end result is that he's learned nothing from the experience. That seems to be the message. If you've got too much pain to bear by yourself, if it's driving you crazy and making you do crazy things, then erase your memory! There's nothing for you to learn here, just erase the problem from your mind!

It's a very poor "resolution" to the problem.

Mr Awe

And then he goes into her room on the Tardis and finds a photo of her. Or a bra.

Then he remembers.

He saw her image on the TARDIS door and didn't remember her. He'll remember her whenever the plot needs him to do so.

He figured out who she was. With the diner disappearing around him and then his TARDIS being there with her picture, he put it all together.

Mr Awe

 

[Scotchy]

Compared to the rest of the season, I liked this episode. The first half made me think back to The Deadly Assassin, which was a good Baker episode.

 

[Mr Awe]

What does this tell us? Moffat's time to go? That the public don't like an older Doctor? That the public are just Who weary? Maybe all three. I would be very interested to know what the more specific information re Capaldi is, much like Tennant (IMO) it took him a year to grow into the role but now I'd hate for him to be jettisoned.

It's a good question. I have no idea what the general public thinks about something like this.

Personally, Capaldi is great but the stories are more hit or miss than before. And the misses are worse than before too. Also, the season arcs are more of a detraction than before when they were actually a positive. Things are built up, but then you're let down. Or things are built up and maybe not resolved, or resolved with a few sentences (Time of the Doctor). Or just forgotten.

All in all, it lessens the motivation to get invested in this series. To me, that all points to it's time for Moffat to leave.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

He saw her image on the TARDIS door and didn't remember her. He'll remember her whenever the plot needs him to do so.

I don't see a problem with the doctor seeing the image of Clara or finding bras or whatever.

He talked about her to the real Clara so it's not about forgotten historical details but the forgotten "emotional involvement" or something like this.

Just to be clear, that's not my statement that you're quoting. Somehow the attribution got messed up.

Mr Awe

 

[ihno]

He saw her image on the TARDIS door and didn't remember her. He'll remember her whenever the plot needs him to do so.

I don't see a problem with the doctor seeing the image of Clara or finding bras or whatever.

He talked about her to the real Clara so it's not about forgotten historical details but the forgotten "emotional involvement" or something like this.

Just to be clear, that's not my statement that you're quoting. Somehow the attribution got messed up.

Mr Awe

Lol, sorry. It looked sooo good with your name but I change it to avoid confusion.

 

[Squiggy]

The original TARDIS was gorgeous, much nicer than the current interior.

It's just...grey and white. It's dull and boring. I understand nostalgia breeds fondness but...meh. Too sterile and clinical looking, like a laboratory.

IT WAS AN APPLE STORE! /jjhater

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The original TARDIS was gorgeous, much nicer than the current interior.

It's just...grey and white. It's dull and boring. I understand nostalgia breeds fondness but...meh. Too sterile and clinical looking, like a laboratory.

IT WAS AN APPLE STORE! /jjhater

No that "honor" goes to the JJprize reboot Enterprise from Star Trek

 

[The Wormhole]

Damn shame Moffat's sticking around.

What actually concerns me is that when Moffat wrote this, he had intended to be leaving the show soon. Remember, the Christmas special was going to be his swan song until BBC persuaded him late in the game. So that means Moffat was intentionally going to end his term with so much up in the air and unresolved. Granted, we probably still won't have a proper resolution after next season anyway.

And I can't help but wonder, will we ever revisit Clara and Ashildr? Something should be done with them before Capaldi leaves, but this could be problematic given the "ageless" aspect of the characters. Even bringing them back after just a year or two you run the risk of Coleman or Williams having noticeable aged somewhat, which is a problem given Clara is essentially frozen in a particular moment and Ashildr has lived trillions of years already without aging. Yeah, I know, this isn't the first time Doctor Who or any show has dealt with ageless immortals, and most of the time we train ourselves not to notice. But it still bothers me.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ I got the distinct impression that we will never see Ashildr or Clara again. We're supposed to imagine that they're travelling around in their diner together!

This story was a mess, but one thing I do like is this ending for the two of them.

Mr Awe

 

[Karzak]

^ I got the distinct impression that we will never see Ashildr or Clara again. We're supposed to imagine that they're travelling around in their diner together!

This story was a mess, but one thing I do like is this ending for the two of them.

Mr Awe

Meh. Karen Gillan came back even though she said she was done. Anything is possible.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

All the Companions of the new era have come back. Amy, Donna, Rose, Martha, Mickey, Jack, River...so we will definitely see Clara again. Capaldi's last episode, she'll be back.

 

[JoeZhang]

Damn shame Moffat's sticking around.

What actually concerns me is that when Moffat wrote this, he had intended to be leaving the show soon. Remember, the Christmas special was going to be his swan song until BBC persuaded him late in the game. So that means Moffat was intentionally going to end his term with so much up in the air and unresolved. Granted, we probably still won't have a proper resolution after next season anyway.

Resolution to what?????

The series is effectively back to Basics -

The timelords are out there somewhere, the Doctor has done a runner, he will pick up a companion and shenanigans (such a lovely word) occur.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I just don't understand the whole deal with the Hybrid. Why is it an issue now? Why wasn't it an issue before the Time War, or even during it? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Not. At. All.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I just don't understand the whole deal with the Hybrid. Why is it an issue now? Why wasn't it an issue before the Time War, or even during it? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Not. At. All.

No, it does not really make sense but we will just have to accept that the Hybrid was a red herring. Really, if you think about it, the whole purpose of the finale was to give Clara her Doctor-like send-off. Everything else was just an excuse to set things up for that.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I just hate that they'd bring Gallifrey back, but not really do nothing with it. What a colossal letdown.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I just hate that they'd bring Gallifrey back, but not really do nothing with it. What a colossal letdown.

So was I, at first. But after viewing the finale a second time, I appreciated its intimate, character-piece nature. And really, they didn't leave themselves a lot of room to do much with Gallifrey because it was just a single episode. If the seasons were still 13 episodes long, we could've had more time to play with.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I would think that the Time Lords on Gallifrey would intervene and try to take her TARDIS back. First, because it is stolen propriety

If they could the Doctor and Missy wouldn't been running around with stolen ones.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I would think that the Time Lords on Gallifrey would intervene and try to take her TARDIS back. First, because it is stolen propriety

If they could the Doctor and Missy wouldn't been running around with stolen ones.

Except the Doctor and Missy are Time Lords. So at least, they have a right to operate one. So, while the Time Lords might not be happy with the Doctor stealing a TARDIS, they might give him some leeway since he is one of them and knows the risks. That's very different from letting humans run around all of space and time in the most powerful time machine ever created without supervision.

Although it is possible that the Time Lords don't know that Clara and ME are running around in a TARDIS. The last they saw, it was the Doctor who stole another TARDIS. So, they may not be aware of what happened later.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I would think that the Time Lords on Gallifrey would intervene and try to take her TARDIS back. First, because it is stolen propriety

If they could the Doctor and Missy wouldn't been running around with stolen ones.

Except the Doctor and Missy are Time Lords. So at least, they have a right to operate one. So, while the Time Lords might not be happy with the Doctor stealing a TARDIS, they might give him some leeway since he is one of them and knows the risks. That's very different from letting humans run around all of space and time in the most powerful time machine ever created without supervision.

Although it is possible that the Time Lords don't know that Clara and ME are running around in a TARDIS. The last they saw, it was the Doctor who stole another TARDIS. So, they may not be aware of what happened later.

The Master had multiple TARDIS's (TARDII ?). Maybe they don't keep track of them as well as they should do.