"Hell Bent" Grade and discussion thread

[RoJoHen]

The finale was pretty damned good ! I'm rather fond of the idea of the two of them out there in a Tardis having fun.

There's a whole 'lost cast' of adventurers loose in the Whoverse now - Clara and Ashildr, Jenny the Doc's 'daughter', Capt. Jack, River, Martha and Mickey, Rose and 10A...

I just wish we could occasionally get some random spin off episodes featuring some of these characters. Not whole shows, necessarily. Maybe a mini series or two.

I'm still waiting for my Torchwood: Victorian London miniseries featuring Jack, River, Vastra, Jenny, and Strax. Come on, BBC! You know you wanna!

 

[Relayer1]

A spinoff with some or all of the above would be great !

Especially if at the very end Capaldi turns up with 'What the blazes do you lot think you're up to ?'.

 

[Marsden]

The fakeout with waitress Clara took me in hook line and sinker.

Me too, for sure. The whole time I assumed she was another Splinter Clara. Jenna's face towards the end, when it becomes clear she's the real Clara...oh man. Seriously, that girl can act.

I'll admit to that.
I remember thinking in the middle, Where does Nevada come into this? Were the Timelords really on Earth? The parts of Galifrey they showed could have been in Nevada.

Why, then, would they decide to play memory roulette with the thing? There's no reason why either of them would have needed to have their memories wiped, unless the reason is "to make the Doctor less sad," which is pretty poor motivation.

My impression is that the Doctor was simply unable to cope and accept Clara's death. That's why he takes the gun, shoots the General, and steals another Tardis to take Clara away. He is adamant that he will undo her death despite the risks to Time itself and the fact that Clara repeats again that she is ok with dying. The Doctor won't hear it. He even takes her to the end of the universe hoping it will break her free from being frozen in time. He would always try something to save her and would never stop. Erasing the Doctor's memories of who Clara is, was the only way to ensure that he would stop trying to save her. There is also the possibility that it relates to the Doctor and Clara being the Hybrid. One of them had to lose their memories in order to stop them from traveling together. In other words, the Hybrid had to be split up. Let's not forget that Claracould not "walk away" either. She had a chance last season to stop traveling with the Doctor and settle down with Danny and she could not do it. Traveling with the Doctor was like a drug to her. She was addicted to it and it got her killed. So really, both of them had a problem of not being able to give up on the other which is why a drastic method like a memory wipe was ultimately necessary.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more that makes sense. In the moment, though, I was just kept thinking, "Or you could just NOT use that thing."

It bums me out.

I think in a way, what the Doctor was willing to do for Clara was "the Hybrid" and the memory wipe neutralized it. The lengths he would go to were the monster rather than a proper other thing that a person could point to.

The finale was pretty damned good ! I'm rather fond of the idea of the two of them out there in a Tardis having fun.

There's a whole 'lost cast' of adventurers loose in the Whoverse now - Clara and Ashildr, Jenny the Doc's 'daughter', Capt. Jack, River, Martha and Mickey, Rose and 10A...

I just wish we could occasionally get some random spin off episodes featuring some of these characters. Not whole shows, necessarily. Maybe a mini series or two.

I'm still waiting for my Torchwood: Victorian London miniseries featuring Jack, River, Vastra, Jenny, and Strax. Come on, BBC! You know you wanna!

A spinoff with some or all of the above would be great !

Especially if at the very end Capaldi turns up with 'What the blazes do you lot think you're up to ?'.

I'd love that.

 

[Mage]

So.....

The Doctor now doesn't remember Clara. And Clare and Me are basicly running around in their own Tardis.... None of the Time Splinter stuff is explained.

Basicly, there is no actual Hybrid, it's a metaphor. And Gallifrey is back, because it just is.

Did I miss anything?

I really, really liked it. But I'm also confused.

 

[Evil Robert]

My opinions,

Even in the classic series, I thought Gallifrey was a very boring place (granted maybe I was just a kid). So Gallifrey being boring now... well it still works for me

For its return, I thought it was kind of logical, at the end of the universe, at the end of time, where barriers have finally faded away (in its pocket dimension or whatever it was holding them in), it can finally join the universe at large again, only because the universe is almost dead.

But I like the idea of them not really being involved beyond that - because the universe and everything in it - hates them.

Other then that I didn't mind the episode. Finally we got another companion without a tragic parting story. I mean Moffet still had to camp up the drama, but at least Clara gets to go on her own terms (eventually).

 

[JoeZhang]

So.....

The Doctor now doesn't remember Clara. And Clare and Me are basicly running around in their own Tardis.... None of the Time Splinter stuff is explained.

Basicly, there is no actual Hybrid, it's a metaphor. And Gallifrey is back, because it just is.

Did I miss anything?

I really, really liked it. But I'm also confused.

What is left to explain about the time splinters???

 

[Romulan_spy]

Perhaps the ending with Clara and Me running off in their own TARDIS was meant to leave the door open for Jenna to do a special appearance on a future Doctor Who episode. This way, they could easily write an episode where Clara and Me bump into one of the Doctor's future adventures. After all, Jenna left the show on very good terms as far as I know so it is very possible that Jenna is very open to the idea of showing up again in a future episode or at least the writers wanted to leave open that possibility just in case.

 

[Romulan_spy]

None of the Time Splinter stuff is explained.

If you are referring to the splinter Claras, that was all fully explained back in the season 7 episode, "The Name of the Doctor".

 

[TommyR01D]

Loved the wraiths. Man, Steven must have had some really messed up dreams as a child.

They rather reminded me of the Ringwraiths/Nazgul from The Lord of the Rings.

I'm rather fond of the idea of the two of them out there in a Tardis having fun.

Careful now!

This is probably the strangest story arc so far in Doctor Who. It would also be the least satisfactory if any of us had even gotten our hopes up to begin with.

Those prophecies were spoken of as if they were highly detailed accounts of events to come, but it then transpired that they must have contained barely any information at all. They didn't tell us if the Hybrid was a person, a group of people, an object, an event, an idea, a piece of non-corporeal property or a pseudo-ecological Toyota.

It was a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, beneath a mountain of drivel, though I suppose it still wasn't quite as bad as the Blessing from Miracle Day.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I so envy Twelve's mind wipe. And that coat.

 

[StarMan]

I'm positively shocked, SHOCKED that so many people seem to rate this episode so highly. Honestly, I thought it was the worst NuWho finale since the River Song one.

Really. At least last year's, as terrible as it may have been, was more thought-out, had stakes and an emotional ending that made sense.

This episode is enigmatically bad. Like, Moffat didn't even bother to make the plot consicse or the threat understanable - what the the fuck is the Hybrid? Why are the Time Lords afraid of it, especially considering that EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE WANTS THEM DEAD?! Why is this suddenly an issue? Do we even know who the hell the Hybrid is at the end? Honestly, I loved the rumored idea that Oswin from Asylum was the one, cause that'd be great twist way to end the Clara run and all that.

BUT FUCK THAT! Lets make the Doctor irrationally agonizing over Clara for NO good reason. Suddenly she means so much more than every other companion he's ever had? Just awful.

Really, I imagine Moffat just had no idea what the write and did this over a weekend. I imagine that wasn't the case, but really... bring Gallifrey back, and not explain how Missy got away, how Gallifrey escaped, HOW they were able to communicate via the crack in Time and how they magically managed to send him regenerations? Honestly, I was fully expecting all of those, but nothing.

And what the hell is it with the Sisterhood of Karn? So they can exist like they are at the end of time? WTF?

Also, to me, the whole Me sub-story was the most vacuus, time-wasting, pointless, going-nowhere story arc that never went N.O.W.H.E.R.E. Just fucking terrible.

Overall, I'm not kidding at all when I say I hated this. This is one of the very, very worst DW episodes I've ever seen. And considering it came off at the heels of the very best of Capaldi's entire run, its bewildering. Maybe he was spent? I dunno.

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Just... ugh!

You're not alone - me and my partner had similar sentiments. God, what a convoluted mess. Damn shame Moffat's sticking around.

The problem for me is I've never been a Clara fan. I find her arrogant and grating (and not in an endearing way). I've wanted her gone since Capaldi's run began. Just when we thought she'd been taken down for good by her own hubris, she's handed a "get out of death free" card and takes over the bloody finale.

The one saving grace for me was the memory wipe. Feels like a fresh start for him after what has been a disturbing and entirely self-indulgent (for him and Moffat) fetish.

I so envy Twelve's mind wipe. And that coat.

 

[Timewalker]

So wait: did Clara and Lady Me just get themselves their own spin-off or something?

No.

Fanfic crossovers with every show that ever took place in a diner will now commence.

I hated this.

Wow. What a fucking mess.

Agreed.

We finally got rid of her. And then, "Oops, haha, nope, just kidding, she's okay! Undead, but okay, good to go forever, basically, with her very own TARDIS!"

Why don't they just rename it The Clara Show and get it over with?

So if the Timelords were trapped in a moment of time, they got out by...???

Technobabble. Or magic. Same difference, and by this time, who cares?

And I'm pleased that Clara got a TARDIS. That's what I've always wanted her end to be.

And why the hell does Clara even deserve a TARDIS?

It's not like she's even part-Gallifreyan. She didn't attend the Academy, as Romana did.

Oh, well. At least now she can program a really good kitchen so her souffles will always come out nice.

-Shouldn't the General have gone mad in some way after the regeneration? It's happened in some way to the Doctor after several of his...

Why? Romana was able to regenerate with no trouble at all. So it would seem that only the Doctor has trouble, and that could be connected with his less-than-stellar grades at the Academy. Perhaps he didn't get great marks in "regeneration theory" or somesuch.

BUT FUCK THAT! Lets make the Doctor irrationally agonizing over Clara for NO good reason. Suddenly she means so much more than every other companion he's ever had? Just awful.

Which makes Adric's death actually funnier

"yeah, he's dead, nothing anyone can do".

Was there something funny about Adric's death?

Was there something funny about the fact that the Doctor felt guilty about Adric's death right up to the point of his regeneration?

Adric's death meant something because it was permanent. Clara's death essentially means nothing because it was not only almost immediately retconned, but now she's immortal until she gets bored of living and decides to either breathe or let her heart take its next beat.

No I'm not going to explain it, if you want explanations for everything Doctor Who is not the show for you.

Well, do pardon those of us who have been Doctor Who fans for over 30 years and are beyond tired of these ridiculous twisty plots that are so convoluted that by the time I get to the end, I've forgotten the beginning and no longer give a damn.

I've seen every single Classic Who story at least twice, and some of them over a dozen times. I'd happily watch the whole thing all over again, from An Unearthly Child to the 1996 movie.

The same can't be said of nuWho. There are a few individual stories in the Eccleston and Tennant eras that I'd watch over again, but as for the rest, it's just a long, boring mess.

So why do I keep watching? I have a forlorn hope that it will improve, but so far it hasn't. This season started out pretty good - the Doctor's been waiting a very long time for that cup of tea he asked for in Genesis of the Daleks. But after that, the season slid down into its usual messy Clara Show crap.

Perhaps the ending with Clara and Me running off in their own TARDIS was meant to leave the door open for Jenna to do a special appearance on a future Doctor Who episode. This way, they could easily write an episode where Clara and Me bump into one of the Doctor's future adventures. After all, Jenna left the show on very good terms as far as I know so it is very possible that Jenna is very open to the idea of showing up again in a future episode or at least the writers wanted to leave open that possibility just in case.

FFS, NO!!! Let her be finally, permanently GONE. Continue her adventures in audio, comics, fanfic, whatever, but I never want to see Clara onscreen ever again.

 

[Candlelight]

Absolute mess of a finale again. Moffat farts about with a script that meanders hopelessly about from place to place, with anything built up suddenly torn away without any care in the world. Gallifrey escapes by itself - how is that possible? They were lost in a single moment, FROZEN. I was hoping the Doctor would swoop in and save them. A 20th century Doctor would've done that. What's with the billions of years left in the universe bit? The universe should last a trillion trillion trillion (x30) years by current estimates. Or was that just the time he was trapped in the confession disc?

Clara and Me have their own Tardis. Maybe they could do an XXX rated spin off... (come on, you all thought it when they did that last scene, staring at each other across the console...).

The only bit I wanted to hear more about was the moon of Gallifrey, mainly cos I've written a fanfic about it, and in that the Doctor lost it too!

With Gallifrey back does that mean all the dimensional walls in place since they went away will start to re-open? Will the Doctor be able to visit Rose? Or will the Time Lords keep it closed off to prevent them from being discovered by the Daleks?

It's a pity we won't be seeing Ken Bones again. He had good presence on screen. I'm still not comfortable with the gender changing.

Hopefully Moffat will step down soon and someone else will take the reigns. He's been on the throne far too long now, and his stories are getting weaker because of it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If he can't remember Clara or the Hybrid, then he can't remember them asking him about Clara or the Hybrid and he never leaves the Confession Dial.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well this episode did achieve the feat of polarizing fans..

Clara was that kind of character though. I liked her at first, as Dalek Clara but after she became "the impossible girl" that for me was the downward spiral.

Dalek Clara would have made for a more interesting companion then the impossible girl..

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

If he can't remember Clara or the Hybrid, then he can't remember them asking him about Clara or the Hybrid and he never leaves the Confession Dial.

But he does so that is moot isn't it?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Absolute mess of a finale again. Moffat farts about with a script that meanders hopelessly about from place to place, with anything built up suddenly torn away without any care in the world. Gallifrey escapes by itself - how is that possible? They were lost in a single moment, FROZEN. I was hoping the Doctor would swoop in and save them. A 20th century Doctor would've done that. What's with the billions of years left in the universe bit? The universe should last a trillion trillion trillion (x30) years by current estimates. Or was that just the time he was trapped in the confession disc?

Clara and Me have their own Tardis. Maybe they could do an XXX rated spin off... (come on, you all thought it when they did that last scene, staring at each other across the console...).

The only bit I wanted to hear more about was the moon of Gallifrey, mainly cos I've written a fanfic about it, and in that the Doctor lost it too!

With Gallifrey back does that mean all the dimensional walls in place since they went away will start to re-open? Will the Doctor be able to visit Rose? Or will the Time Lords keep it closed off to prevent them from being discovered by the Daleks?

It's a pity we won't be seeing Ken Bones again. He had good presence on screen. I'm still not comfortable with the gender changing.

Hopefully Moffat will step down soon and someone else will take the reigns. He's been on the throne far too long now, and his stories are getting weaker because of it.

Here is the thing, and you can disagree if you like but I find with Moffat he is a good writer of stand alone stories, just when he does multi part stories they have a strong start and build up, but fall to bits in their conclusions. Same problem with Sherlock..

 

[Romulan_spy]

And why the hell does Clara even deserve a TARDIS?

It's not like she's even part-Gallifreyan. She didn't attend the Academy, as Romana did.

I would think that the Time Lords on Gallifrey would intervene and try to take her TARDIS back. First, because it is stolen propriety and second, and more importantly, it is way too risky to let two immortal humans travel through space and time in one. The TARDIS is an incredibly powerful and potentially dangerous piece of technology after all. It should only be handled by Time Lords.

So it would seem that only the Doctor has trouble, and that could be connected with his less-than-stellar grades at the Academy. Perhaps he didn't get great marks in "regeneration theory" or somesuch.

It makes a lot of sense. I seem to remember a scene in a Baker episode between the 4th Doctor and Romana where they banter back and forth about how Romana was a stellar student in the Academy but the Doctor, not so much. I envision the Doctor as being that student who prefers to run around and get in trouble rather than focus and study.

FFS, NO!!! Let her be finally, permanently GONE. Continue her adventures in audio, comics, fanfic, whatever, but I never want to see Clara onscreen ever again.

Then the writers should have given Clara a permanent death. When you essentially resurrect a character and let that character fly around in their own TARDIS for as long as they wants, it is only natural for fans to wonder if that character will come back.

 

[Candlelight]

Absolute mess of a finale again. Moffat farts about with a script that meanders hopelessly about from place to place, with anything built up suddenly torn away without any care in the world. Gallifrey escapes by itself - how is that possible? They were lost in a single moment, FROZEN. I was hoping the Doctor would swoop in and save them. A 20th century Doctor would've done that. What's with the billions of years left in the universe bit? The universe should last a trillion trillion trillion (x30) years by current estimates. Or was that just the time he was trapped in the confession disc?

Clara and Me have their own Tardis. Maybe they could do an XXX rated spin off... (come on, you all thought it when they did that last scene, staring at each other across the console...).

The only bit I wanted to hear more about was the moon of Gallifrey, mainly cos I've written a fanfic about it, and in that the Doctor lost it too!

With Gallifrey back does that mean all the dimensional walls in place since they went away will start to re-open? Will the Doctor be able to visit Rose? Or will the Time Lords keep it closed off to prevent them from being discovered by the Daleks?

It's a pity we won't be seeing Ken Bones again. He had good presence on screen. I'm still not comfortable with the gender changing.

Hopefully Moffat will step down soon and someone else will take the reigns. He's been on the throne far too long now, and his stories are getting weaker because of it.

Here is the thing, and you can disagree if you like but I find with Moffat he is a good writer of stand alone stories, just when he does multi part stories they have a strong start and build up, but fall to bits in their conclusions. Same problem with Sherlock..

I've been saying that since season five. He does do brilliant stand alone stories but ask him to write an arc and it's all over the place.

 

[Mr Awe]

In the end, nothing is resolved. The Hybrid is only vaguely explained as some sort of amalgam of the Doctor and Clara or something.

What wasn't resolved about the hybrid? I thought they explained it almost perfectly. The Doctor even stood in the ruins of Gallifrey like the prophecy predicted.

Yes, it was all explained and resolved very clearly. Still, it was a copout.

I was all set for some epic defense of Gallifrey from the mysterious Hybrid. What we got was the prophecy coming true only because the Doctor simply travelled further ahead in time--not through some exciting storytelling.

The Hybrid wasn't anything creative, just a contrived combination of the Doctor and Clara travelling together. Huh? And, the way to save the universe was a memory wipe. Great . . .

Mr Awe