"Hell Bent" Grade and discussion thread

[Mr Awe]

^ Yes, it came true in a lame sort of way. He just travelled further into the future!

Nah, it was perfect. It's basically a better version of putting graffiti on the oldest wall in the universe that makes the time lords look like an army of fools for reading too much in what is actually a pretty benign prophecy. They had gone to mad extremes for nothing.

It was a waste of a good story though. The Doctor protects Gallifrey from an ancient prophecy of doom!!! Wow, can't wait!

No, he just travels ahead in the future and the prophecy comes true because the universe dies. Oh, and he mind wipes himself. But, not quite because he remembers a lot and then pieces together who Clara is at the end anyway.

Mr Awe

 

[Candlelight]

In the end, nothing is resolved. The Hybrid is only vaguely explained as some sort of amalgam of the Doctor and Clara or something.

What wasn't resolved about the hybrid? I thought they explained it almost perfectly. The Doctor even stood in the ruins of Gallifrey like the prophecy predicted.

Yes, it was all explained and resolved very clearly. Still, it was a copout.

I was all set for some epic defense of Gallifrey from the mysterious Hybrid. What we got was the prophecy coming true only because the Doctor simply travelled further ahead in time--not through some exciting storytelling.

The Hybrid wasn't anything creative, just a contrived combination of the Doctor and Clara travelling together. Huh? And, the way to save the universe was a memory wipe. Great . . .

Mr Awe

Kind of like the whole Silence arc's weak ending.

Did we ever find out who the voice was in the Tardis in The Big Bang?

 

[Candlelight]

Oh, and he mind wipes himself. But, not quite because he remembers a lot and then pieces together who Clara is at the end anyway.

Just like how the Daleks got mindwiped of the Doctor's existence and then weren't.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

And why the hell does Clara even deserve a TARDIS?

It's not like she's even part-Gallifreyan. She didn't attend the Academy, as Romana did.

Why does one need to deserve a TARDIS? The Doctor stole his. And as for learning the rules of time and whatever, the TARDIS is basically a huge Room of Requirement, and Me has the manual. So whatever she and Clara have to learn, they will. Whatever they need to make, they can make. Whatever they need to practice, they'll practice. The TARDIS will help them.

And again...if River can fly it and Tasha Lem can fly it, why not Clara and Me? And as for "the rules," well...sure they'll have to be careful, but for all the time that Gallifrey was gone and time-locked, the Doctor was basically the keeper of time. The Time Lords weren't there. It was the Doctor, the Master, and the Daleks who messed around with time. And surely Clara and Me won't cause carnage like the Master.

FFS, NO!!! Let her be finally, permanently GONE. Continue her adventures in audio, comics, fanfic, whatever, but I never want to see Clara onscreen ever again.

Well then prepare yourself for the inevitable and decide right now not to watch Capaldi's departure episode. Because they will bring Clara back. They've done it with Rose, Martha, Donna, Mickey, Captain Jack, Amy and even River now. And since Clara was around for 2 of Capaldi's series, she'll probably be remembered as his main companion so of course they'll bring her back.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

What wasn't resolved about the hybrid? I thought they explained it almost perfectly. The Doctor even stood in the ruins of Gallifrey like the prophecy predicted.

Yes, it was all explained and resolved very clearly. Still, it was a copout.

I was all set for some epic defense of Gallifrey from the mysterious Hybrid. What we got was the prophecy coming true only because the Doctor simply travelled further ahead in time--not through some exciting storytelling.

The Hybrid wasn't anything creative, just a contrived combination of the Doctor and Clara travelling together. Huh? And, the way to save the universe was a memory wipe. Great . . .

Mr Awe

Kind of like the whole Silence arc's weak ending.

Did we ever find out who the voice was in the Tardis in The Big Bang?

No that was never resolved, nor who blew up the TARDIS, well not to my liking anyway. I think it was referenced but that was all.

 

[Mr Awe]

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode...up until the end. Maybe I'm missing something, but WHY did they have to use the neural block at all? Clara decides she wants to keep her memories; the Doctor agrees that she's right and he's gone too far.

Why, then, would they decide to play memory roulette with the thing? There's no reason why either of them would have needed to have their memories wiped, unless the reason is "to make the Doctor less sad," which is pretty poor motivation.

Yeah, it is a big puzzler. I'm not sure that was the motivation, maybe it was, but that seems to be what the end result was. He knows he's lost Clara but is less sad.

The end result is that he's learned nothing from the experience. That seems to be the message. If you've got too much pain to bear by yourself, if it's driving you crazy and making you do crazy things, then erase your memory! There's nothing for you to learn here, just erase the problem from your mind!

It's a very poor "resolution" to the problem.

Mr Awe

 

[Saul]

Everyone here has made some really good arguments and explained clearly what was going on and what the motivations of the characters were. It's a pity the episode itself didn't do that though.

 

[Candlelight]

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode...up until the end. Maybe I'm missing something, but WHY did they have to use the neural block at all? Clara decides she wants to keep her memories; the Doctor agrees that she's right and he's gone too far.

Why, then, would they decide to play memory roulette with the thing? There's no reason why either of them would have needed to have their memories wiped, unless the reason is "to make the Doctor less sad," which is pretty poor motivation.

Yeah, it is a big puzzler. I'm not sure that was the motivation, maybe it was, but that seems to be what the end result was. He knows he's lost Clara but is less sad.

The end result is that he's learned nothing from the experience. That seems to be the message. If you've got too much pain to bear by yourself, if it's driving you crazy and making you do crazy things, then erase your memory! There's nothing for you to learn here, just erase the problem from your mind!

It's a very poor "resolution" to the problem.

Mr Awe

And then he goes into her room on the Tardis and finds a photo of her. Or a bra.

Then he remembers.

 

[DWF]

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode...up until the end. Maybe I'm missing something, but WHY did they have to use the neural block at all? Clara decides she wants to keep her memories; the Doctor agrees that she's right and he's gone too far.

Why, then, would they decide to play memory roulette with the thing? There's no reason why either of them would have needed to have their memories wiped, unless the reason is "to make the Doctor less sad," which is pretty poor motivation.

Yeah, it is a big puzzler. I'm not sure that was the motivation, maybe it was, but that seems to be what the end result was. He knows he's lost Clara but is less sad.

The end result is that he's learned nothing from the experience. That seems to be the message. If you've got too much pain to bear by yourself, if it's driving you crazy and making you do crazy things, then erase your memory! There's nothing for you to learn here, just erase the problem from your mind!

It's a very poor "resolution" to the problem.

Mr Awe

And then he goes into her room on the Tardis and finds a photo of her. Or a bra.

Then he remembers.

He saw her image on the TARDIS door and didn't remember her. He'll remember her whenever the plot needs him to do so.

 

[Timby]

Oh, and he mind wipes himself. But, not quite because he remembers a lot and then pieces together who Clara is at the end anyway.

Just like how the Daleks got mindwiped of the Doctor's existence and then weren't.

This was explained in The Time of the Doctor.

 

[Timby]

I just loved that original TARDIS set. I never wanted them to leave that room. I'm glad they spent quite a bit of time in there because they obviously spent a lot of time building it. I hope we see it again at some future point.

They actually had to really rush the shooting on that set. The console was taken from the Experience and then painted white (as well as the labels being replaced), and then swiftly repainted and sent back as soon as shooting was complete. A friend of mine was in the Experience after hours putting all the original labels back on so it could be back on display.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

So...is the Doctor a "high born Galifreyan" or a peasant who slept in a barn as a child, and presumably lived on a farm outside the Citadel?

 

[Ithekro]

"They is a hole, in your mind."
A hole that wears a skirt that is a little too tight and fills a sweeter nicely....

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

"They is a hole, in your mind."
A hole that wears a skirt that is a little too tight and fills a sweeter nicely....

Didn't 11 say that about Clara? An enigma wrapped in a riddle in an almost too tight skirt. He was the pervy one.

 

[MikeS]

Here is the thing, and you can disagree if you like but I find with Moffat he is a good writer of stand alone stories, just when he does multi part stories they have a strong start and build up, but fall to bits in their conclusions. Same problem with Sherlock..

I can't speak for Sherlock - I have never seen it. But I would tend to agree with your statement. I really liked the stuff he wrote during RTD's run, I had high hopes when he was named showrunner. Alas.

 

[DS9Continuing]

So...is the Doctor a "high born Galifreyan" or a peasant who slept in a barn as a child, and presumably lived on a farm outside the Citadel?

I'm not sure why people think these are incompatible. I would say he was raised in something like a stately home - a grand high-born family residence out in the country that had lots of grounds. Then he went into the Citadel to start his Time Lord training, but when it all got too much for him, he ran out to the barn to cry to himself because he didn't want the others to see him afraid.

.

 

[Karzak]

I just marathoned the whole season this weekend and finished just a few moments ago.

I was quite surprised at how much I enjoyed the first four episodes of the season, given how nonplussed I've been with most of season 6-8.

As I watched the rest of the season, I realized that Moffat has fallen into a lazy habit, one very evident in Series 9.

Doctor Who in the Moffat era: They're really just fifteen minute episodes preceded by about 30-40 minutes of crap. I could have easily skipped to the 30 minute mark on just about all of these and continued along the entire season and not missed anything of consequence.

Nice to see Clara got a good send-off. If only we could give Moffat one.

 

[Karzak]

Also: I know this is going back to the beginning of the season, but... did they ever explain just how the hell Davros survived the end of "Journey's End?" I thought I'd paid close attention to the episode at the beginning of the series, but I don't think it was ever explained. How the fuck did he manage to get his evil ass back to Skaro?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

So...is the Doctor a "high born Galifreyan" or a peasant who slept in a barn as a child, and presumably lived on a farm outside the Citadel?

I'm not sure why people think these are incompatible. I would say he was raised in something like a stately home - a grand high-born family residence out in the country that had lots of grounds. Then he went into the Citadel to start his Time Lord training, but when it all got too much for him, he ran out to the barn to cry to himself because he didn't want the others to see him afraid.

.

I ask because in the Classic series( Invasion of Time), there is a sub-section of Galifreyans that live outside the city. Unlike the Galifreyans inside the Citadel who presumably are all Time Lords and Ladies, the Galifreyans who live in the wastes reject their counterparts way of life. Watching the Classic series, you get a sense the sections of Galifreyans aren't the best of chums, but certainly aren't hostile toward one another.

My question is, why would a "high-born Galifreyan" live in the wastelands with non-Time Lords, instead of the Citadel where you'd expect those of high birth to stem from?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Telepathic net.

Anyone wanting to stay connected to the world, it doesn't matter where they live.

Also obviously their cities must be dimensionally transcendental, so that trillions of Time Lords live inside these cities, that are probably only the size of a few hundred Wallmarts from the look of the special effects we've seen.

For some reason they prefer to leave Gallifrey as untouched as possible, perhaps maybe because they're not assholes?

Or it's a siege defense?

Where the Daleks the first lot who the Time Lords went to war with?