HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

I like to think that Elsie is still alive (we only saw Bernard choking her out, not actually killing her) and will continue in his footsteps. Perhaps even using one of the "secret" labs to rebuild him in future seasons.

But yeah, it's certainly possible that Bernard was able to override Ford's command slightly and aim for a less-than-fatal area of his head (after all, Ford didn't say shoot himself in the brain) that he might be able to repair. The scene we saw, though, looked pretty damn straight forward.

Plus, have we ever seen any host take grazing wounds from a firearm? I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, leading me to suspect that they're designed to "die" whenever they're shot, since it's doubtful any of the guests are expert pistoleeros.

 

[Starkers]

^ True but Bernard isn't a typical Host

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Maybe someone can help me, one thing I didnt get is that Bernard said that Ford didnt create him, he said something about some of his code not being Fords. But then we saw that Ford actually did create him. Did I miss something?

 

[EnderAKH]

Maybe someone can help me, one thing I didnt get is that Bernard said that Ford didnt create him, he said something about some of his code not being Fords. But then we saw that Ford actually did create him. Did I miss something?

Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V?

yeah I thought that, obviously Arnold wrote code that is in all of them, but then that wouldnt be news to Bernard so I wondered why he said it. I thought he was insinuating that Ford didnt build him.

 

[Shawnster]

I took it that he was stating that Ford didn't completely build him. Arnold had a hand. Bernard was more loyal to Arnold and Arnold's programming than to Ford and Ford's programming.

Ford isn't as smart or all God-like that he thinks he is. Ford wasn't as smart as Arnold. Arnold was the better programmer. Maybe Ford was better at hardware and Arnold software. Ford thinks he's as good as Arnold. Or he thinks he can be as good as Arnold. Ford disagreed with Arnold but now, all these years later, seems to be trying to complete what Arnold set out to do.

That's what I've taken from all this.

 

[wayoung]

There's also an interpretation floating around that Bernard himself wrote the "Arnold" code that Bernard saw in himself since Bernard is based on Arnold and Ford states he used Bernard's own code within him, and that he needed Bernard to write the more elegant code in the previous episode. The frequent memory wipes due to Bernard's "loop" where he becomes self aware would explain why Bernard doesn't recognize the code as his own.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

It's possible, but we did "see" it happen. We just don't know if it happened fatally, I suppose. We definitely saw him shoot himself though, complete with a cloud of red mist.

^ No, the flash of the gun going off, the red spray and the slightly out of focus figure of Bernard falling over were pretty strong visual evidence. Add to that the scene from the episode 10 teaser showing Clementine just standing in the darkened room still intact (but switched off) further reinforce the notion the Bernard carried through with Ford's commands and pulled the trigger.

I don't know, I think you guys are projecting regarding the red mist. I reviewed that moment several times, and while the flash is distinct, there's really no evidence of any red mist. The scene is dark and out of focus and the moment happens too quickly to really discern any real color in that moment.

 

[RJDiogenes]

It's possible, but we did "see" it happen. We just don't know if it happened fatally, I suppose. We definitely saw him shoot himself though, complete with a cloud of red mist.

Was there a cloud of red mist? I just saw the muzzle flash in the background and decided that he was faking it.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

Nah, you're right, my memory was being poor again. There wasn't any red mist. But you could see that he never moved the gun, either.

 

[Cyrus]

What is the big deal about Bernard shooting himself? The hosts are easily repaired. Maeve has done a semi-suicide several times without a problem.

I tried to pay attention to what Dolores was wearing in the last episode to see if I could detect the different time frames, but it was confusing. In some scenes she is wearing the Alice dress, like the scene that she talked with Arnold. So those are in the past? In other scenes, like the ones with William and Logan, she is wearing pants. But she is wearing the same in the last scene with MiB. Very interesting.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford turns out to be a host built by Arnold.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Nah, you're right, my memory was being poor again. There wasn't any red mist. But you could see that he never moved the gun, either.

Yes, but all we saw was Bernard's silhouette. The gun may have looked like it was pointed directly at his head from a distance but instead could have been in front or behind him as seen from afar.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

What is the big deal about Bernard shooting himself? The hosts are easily repaired. Maeve has done a semi-suicide several times without a problem.

That assumes someone is going to repair them. No one else knows that Bernard is a host; there is no team coming to extract, repair, and put him back in the field. His only hope at the moment is his own ingenuity.

I tried to pay attention to what Dolores was wearing in the last episode to see if I could detect the different time frames, but it was confusing. In some scenes she is wearing the Alice dress, like the scene that she talked with Arnold. So those are in the past? In other scenes, like the ones with William and Logan, she is wearing pants. But she is wearing the same in the last scene with MiB. Very interesting.

The clothing doesn't always tell the tale. She's pretty much schizophrenic at the moment, with her reality being a mish-mash of the present, her past, and flat-out hallucinations. She does appear to have changed out of her dress into the pants sometime during her wandering, however. But some of her memories still have her in a dress, hence it flipping to and fro as things go on.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ford turns out to be a host built by Arnold.

Nah. I think he's legitimately Ford. Though I think he's trying to find immortality, hence not standing in the way (too much) of the awakening of some of Arnold's hosts so that he can unlock their secrets and possibly transfer his consciousness into it or something similar. It's the only reason I can fathom as to why he hasn't just shut them all down. He can put a stop to their awakening at any time.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

Yes, but all we saw was Bernard's silhouette. The gun may have looked like it was pointed directly at his head from a distance but instead could have been in front or behind him as seen from afar.

That would require him to have completely ignored Ford's narrative command, which there's no reason to believe he could do. At best, he could "interpret" it literally but not the way Ford intended, aiming instead for a non-vital part of his head. But he definitely shot himself in the head. There's no question whatsoever of that in the scene.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I'm still not sure. I think Ford made a big mistake turning it into a narrative. He told Bernard to press the gun to his head but never forbade him from moving it-- and he never told him to shoot himself-- he just said "put an end to this nightmare." If Bernard has free will, he could interpret that as permission to destroy Westworld. If it was me-- and if I was an evil, heartless bastard-- I would have told Bernard to specifically blow his brains out and stayed to watch. Ford made the classic super-villain error of setting his death trap and then walking away before the hero dies.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That assumes someone is going to repair them. No one else knows that Bernard is a host; there is no team coming to extract, repair, and put him back in the field. His only hope at the moment is his own ingenuity.

There is one person, Maeve. She could try to find him so she can use him and discover what happened.

 

[Kahless the Unforgettable]

I'm still leaning towards Elsie being alive (again: we only saw him putting her in a sleeper hold) and using the blueprints we saw in Ford's secret lab to rebuild him either there or more likely another lab linked to location she found.

It seems the most plausible way to keep both characters in the show.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I know Clementine was a barely functional husk but I wonder if Bernard could've set her to take him to a repair bay (have they shown exactly how they heal the host's wounds?) should something happen to him.

I'm not sure though if Bernard were to survive how they could weave him back into the narrative. It's not like he could just show back up for work.

EDIT: (Kahless idea of Elsie sounds more plausible than my musing...)

 

[Q2UnME]

Just speculation, but I personally think Maeve is the one that is going to facilitate Bernard being found and subsequently repaired. According to the promo, she and her "gang" go looking for and indeed find a "off line" Clementine in the room where Bernard capped himself. Since she has 2 techs in her posse, it's reasonable to think they fix him and reboot him.

Q2

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That makes sense.

I'm not sure though if Bernard were to survive how they could weave him back into the narrative. It's not like he could just show back up for work.

I have a feeling there is going to be a sea change in the whole concept before the last episode is done.