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Have you noticed how "Yesteryear" influnced Star Trek XI?

Crap like Wicked and the Looking Glass War really sets me off though, because those hacks are basing their entire careers on the property of long dead authors. Sure, it's still public domain, but those guys are still unoriginal hacks.
One could say the same of Shakespeare, who retold existing existing stories his way. Romeo and Juliet is based on an Italian tale, translated into verse as The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet by Arthur Brooke in 1562, and retold in prose in Palace of Pleasure by William Painter in 1582, as one fer-instance.
 
One could say the same of Shakespeare, who retold existing existing stories his way. Romeo and Juliet is based on an Italian tale, translated into verse as The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet by Arthur Brooke in 1562, and retold in prose in Palace of Pleasure by William Painter in 1582, as one fer-instance.

Check one or two clicks further in your wiki article and see that this is touched on in the Romeo and Juliet article. Shakespeare borrowed the plot and character names from those, then added characters, added the comedy, and made it in many ways different than those two sources.

There's also this article which states, in part that:

Linked Article said:
While he was working, Shakespeare was looking at a copy of a wordy 3,020-line narrative poem by Arthur Brooke titled "The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet." First published in 1562, "Romeus and Juliet" was well-known in England by the 1590s, and there's no doubt that the playwright kept a copy by his side when he dramatized the story of Verona's ill-fated lovers. Shakespeare saw in Brooke's rambling poem the potential for a play teeming with passion and conflict; but turning Brooke's poetry into compelling drama required extraordinary transformation and invention. "Pedestrian," "prolix," "leaden," "inert," and "wearisome" are just a few of the words literary critics have used to describe Brooke's work. J.J. Munro, in his introduction to a 1908 edition of "Romeus and Juliet," offered this comparison of the source material and the play: "Brooke's story meanders on like a listless stream in a strange and impossible land; Shakspere's [sic] sweeps on like a broad and rushing river, singing and foaming, flashing in sunlight and darkening in cloud, carrying all things irresistibly to where it plunges over the precipice into a waste of waters below."

That's also assuming that Shakespeare wrote it, instead of any of the theories about others having written the stuff, or groups of people writing it all.
 
then I assume you don't have any awe for Gene Roddenberry? just checking because he "essentially cribbed" the basics of TOS from Forbidden Planet. he even gave it credit.

writers (and all artists) all over the world have derived inspiration (or, as you so delicately put it, "cribbed") from sources prior to their own creation. it's nothing new and it's not plagiarism.

now, if you can point to plagiarism in this case, I'd be interested.

There is a huge difference between "this inspired me", "it's a similar idea to...", "it's the same premise as X, but here's how it's different...", and huge pieces lifted, whole cloth, from work someone else did.

I am an amateur writer, I know a lot about how people exchange ideas, use similar characters, plots, etc while still managing to create a story that's uniquely theirs. That, I don't take issue with, that's a natural part of the creative process.

But, to use entire scenes straight out of someone else's work, that's bullshit.

And no, JJ and crew making a Trek flick doesn't bother me. What they did with it pisses me off. They paid to be involved, Paramount let them, that's there business decision to make as it's their property. Crap like Wicked and the Looking Glass War really sets me off though, because those hacks are basing their entire careers on the property of long dead authors. Sure, it's still public domain, but those guys are still unoriginal hacks.

There's a difference between a reference and cribbing. When Scotty mentions Admiral Archer's dog, that's a reference; when entire chunks of dialog, costuming, and scenes are taken (with very minor changes), that's cribbing.

Sure, it's all Trek and it's not the first (or last) time something like this will happen. But come on, the genuflecting for how brilliant this film is, and by extension JJ and the writers are, is getting a bit tiresome.

They're not brilliant for mashing a bunch of other peoples' words and ideas into a script and writing maybe 10% of their own stuff for it.

Come back here and comment when you attain professional status like Orci and Kurtzman. Otherwise it's just amateur mewling from the sidelines.
 
Come back here and comment when you attain professional status like Orci and Kurtzman. Otherwise it's just amateur mewling from the sidelines.

Sorry. Didn't realize I had to get paid to rip-off other writers before I could have an opinion. :bolian:
 
Come back here and comment when you attain professional status like Orci and Kurtzman. Otherwise it's just amateur mewling from the sidelines.

Sorry. Didn't realize I had to get paid to rip-off other writers before I could have an opinion. :bolian:

They get paid to write. You don't. Few things are more annoying than dillettantes acting like they know shit.

I've actually been paid quite a bit to write. Great assumption on your part. They are "professionals" because they make their living by writing. I'm an "amateur" because I still have a job on the side.

Come back when you know what the hell you're talking about. What was that about annoying dilettantes acting like they know shit...
 
Sorry. Didn't realize I had to get paid to rip-off other writers before I could have an opinion. :bolian:

They get paid to write. You don't. Few things are more annoying than dillettantes acting like they know shit.

I've actually been paid quite a bit to write. Great assumption on your part. They are "professionals" because they make their living by writing. I'm an "amateur" because I still have a job on the side.

Well, when you start writing multi-million dollar films, come back and talk. Otherwise it's just petty bullshit that doesn't even make it to the level of professional jealousy.
 
What you fail to see is that I don't have to meet your standards to have an opinion. We are each entitled to our own thoughts on whatever we choose.

I don't have to write multi-million dollar movies to have an opinion on multi-million dollar movies. I don't know if you've heard about it yet, but there's this great thing called the internet, you know where random people come to voice their opinions. Go crusade for your bullshit elsewhere.
 
^^ As said a few posts above, Star Trek is not that big in France... I remember TOS VHS started to be available around 1996. And I'm not even sure the whole series had ever been released on that format. Imports was the way to go. We had to wait for the overpriced DVD sets (how can I forget 90-110€ apiece! :mad: )...
I had access to ST movies on VHS and to some episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY through the Star Trek Fact Files. I had to discontinue my subscription because it was getting way too expensive for me and I couldn't see the end of it. It broke my heart to do that because there were lots of interesting things in the Files.
 
What you fail to see is that I don't have to meet your standards to have an opinion. We are each entitled to our own thoughts on whatever we choose.

I don't have to write multi-million dollar movies to have an opinion on multi-million dollar movies. I don't know if you've heard about it yet, but there's this great thing called the internet, you know where random people come to voice their opinions. Go crusade for your bullshit elsewhere.

The final refuge of all internet bigmouths - ' I'm entitled to my opinion! '

Call us when you have your name and your face to a piece of work that's been put out there for all to comment on so we can judge for ourselves the wonderful talent you have so as to be able to put a value on that 'opinion' of yours. Otherwise it's just bullshit. And pretty cowardly bullshit at that.
 
The final refuge of all internet bigmouths - ' It's my opinion! '

Call us when you have your name and your face to a piece of work that's been put out there for all to comment on so we can judge for ourselves the wonderful talent you have so as to be able to put a value on that 'opinion' of yours. Otherwise it's just bullshit. And pretty cowardly bullshit at that.

Pot meet kettle.

There's no "us" here. Just you. And your opinion. See how that works. My opinion. Your opinion about my opinion. Gee this is great fun. I've come across 'net bullies like you before. I'm done wasting my time, and thread space with you.

I have stuff out there for all the world to see. And they do comment. Some good, some bad. What's your excuse?
 
The final refuge of all internet bigmouths - ' It's my opinion! '

Call us when you have your name and your face to a piece of work that's been put out there for all to comment on so we can judge for ourselves the wonderful talent you have so as to be able to put a value on that 'opinion' of yours. Otherwise it's just bullshit. And pretty cowardly bullshit at that.

Pot meet kettle.

There's no "us" here. Just you. And your opinion. See how that works. My opinion. Your opinion about my opinion. Gee this is great fun. I've come across 'net bullies like you before. I'm done wasting my time, and thread space with you.

I have stuff out there for all the world to see. And they do comment. Some good, some bad. What's your excuse?

Still more cowardly bullshit. You're the sad git who flashed their 'writer' credentials earlier on in a pathetic attempt to bolster said opinion. Let's see those links to your 'work'. I'd like to have an 'opinion' on them.
 
^^ As said a few posts above, Star Trek is not that big in France... I remember TOS VHS started to be available around 1996. And I'm not even sure the whole series had ever been released on that format. Imports was the way to go. We had to wait for the overpriced DVD sets (how can I forget 90-110€ apiece! :mad: )...
I had access to ST movies on VHS and to some episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY through the Star Trek Fact Files. I had to discontinue my subscription because it was getting way too expensive for me and I couldn't see the end of it. It broke my heart to do that because there were lots of interesting things in the Files.

Hulu has the entire run of TOS free online, the remastered versions I believe.
 
Ahem, Hulu is US-based only.


Fuck Hulu! I do appreciate the gesture from Hulu, but they forget what the three Ws stand for in www ...
 
a lot of people here haven't watched TOS, much less TAS ;)
True. I didn't even know TAS existed 2 weeks ago, much less that it was considered as TOS fourth season :lol:
Should receive the DVDs this week and I'll watch them after I'm finished with rewatching TOS. That's not going to happen fast since I've watched "Amok Time" only yesterday (that episode is awesome).

So you're a new TOS fan after seeing the movie? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with TAS...

I knew that the shot of the city wasn't there when I watched that episode on TV! Granted, it was like 25 years ago but it struck me as "not being there before". It looks beautiful and not too much like CGI. More like traditionnal matte painting that could have been made in the 60's.

And the blue sashes.. I mean really.. such beautiful attention to detail, details unknown to even many Trek fans is a testimony to the writers respect of this franchise and its fans.
Yep. They really did their homework and IMO, that proves that they didn't reboot ST only to make more money. I mean, why loose time in tiny details and references since the movie was supposed to attract new fans to ST, ie people who weren't going to notice those details? For the fan audience? It was sure that we were going to see that movie, anyway. When I watch STXI, I feel a genuine love for ST universe and I think it's a big part of the reason why, even if the movie is flawed, I like it so much.

Let's not get crazy here...of course they rebooted Star Trek to make money...that is the number one reason...maybe even the only reason...either it makes money or its gone. They paid attention to these details because they work and it fits in with the story they're trying to convey..... And Overgeeked brings up a good point too...you can either look at it as them doing their homework and paying homage.....or you can view them as rip off writers taking elements from others work....Hmmmmm makes you think...

If you LIKE the results it is called showing respect for canon.

If you don't like the results it's called swiping other people's work.

Using a school uniform from TAS set in Spock's childhood in a movie also set in Spock's childhood--how is this theft?
 
then I assume you don't have any awe for Gene Roddenberry? just checking because he "essentially cribbed" the basics of TOS from Forbidden Planet. he even gave it credit.

writers (and all artists) all over the world have derived inspiration (or, as you so delicately put it, "cribbed") from sources prior to their own creation. it's nothing new and it's not plagiarism.

now, if you can point to plagiarism in this case, I'd be interested.

There is a huge difference between "this inspired me", "it's a similar idea to...", "it's the same premise as X, but here's how it's different...", and huge pieces lifted, whole cloth, from work someone else did.

I am an amateur writer, I know a lot about how people exchange ideas, use similar characters, plots, etc while still managing to create a story that's uniquely theirs. That, I don't take issue with, that's a natural part of the creative process.

But, to use entire scenes straight out of someone else's work, that's bullshit.

And no, JJ and crew making a Trek flick doesn't bother me. What they did with it pisses me off. They paid to be involved, Paramount let them, that's there business decision to make as it's their property. Crap like Wicked and the Looking Glass War really sets me off though, because those hacks are basing their entire careers on the property of long dead authors. Sure, it's still public domain, but those guys are still unoriginal hacks.

There's a difference between a reference and cribbing. When Scotty mentions Admiral Archer's dog, that's a reference; when entire chunks of dialog, costuming, and scenes are taken (with very minor changes), that's cribbing.

Sure, it's all Trek and it's not the first (or last) time something like this will happen. But come on, the genuflecting for how brilliant this film is, and by extension JJ and the writers are, is getting a bit tiresome.

They're not brilliant for mashing a bunch of other peoples' words and ideas into a script and writing maybe 10% of their own stuff for it.

to which scenes are you referring? care to cite?

also, Mr.-Amateur-Writer-who-gets-paid-as-well, your attitude leaves much to be desired. I suggest you link us to some of the stuff you have been paid to write and let us be the judge (of quality and possible plagiarism).
 
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