Have You Even Known Someone Who Committed Suicide?

[Chi'pok]

Having just experienced a suicidal episode and subsequent hospitalization (for four days), I would like to comment.

I have suffered from depression on and off for several years. I have been on medication for a while and felt much better. To the point where I didn't think I needed it anymore. So I stopped taking it about 9 months ago. Well, in March of this year, I had a number of stressful situations (some self-generated) which sent me into a tailspin. I was at the point where I went to work but was extremely stressed. I would come home and start crying for hours because I thought I was worthless.

Finally, I seriously considered doing something to hurt myself. But I called my doctor and she persuaded me to call my brother. I really was against that, but finally relented. He dropped everything and took me to the hospital. I participated in my recovery and have since gone back to work. I'm back on the meds (which do work for me) and am nearing the end of my review period for my promotion at work (which I should get within the next month or so; apparently I was doing quality work even when I felt like crap; I did take a month long break to get back in the game).

I discovered some things about myself in the process... I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that is beyond my control (even tho it presents to me as a demon in a metaphorical sense); the meds help that. I'm also enjoying my life more than before. I am very lucky to have the job I have (Library of Congress), the friends I have (two of whom helped me transition back to my outside life); I will be celebrating my 40th birthday in November. And after seeing the events in Iran recently, I am also very grateful that I live in the USA and am able to live my life as I like.

Also, and this may sound strange, I feel like I have a duty to continue living for those who can't (their lives were cut short for various reasons). Does that make sense?

Sorry to make this a tl;dr post, but wanted to add to the discussion.

Thanks for reading,

Peter

"The challenge, Mr. Offenhouse, is to improve yourself, to enrich yourself... enjoy it."--Jean-Luc Picard

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That's great. I'm glad you were able to prevail over your difficulties.

^To resolve financial difficulties for your family, to escape a long prison sentence, to end your own suffering during a prolonged, incurable illness - or, quite frankly, because you simply view your own life as being incapable of becoming any better.

I already covered incurable illness. Killing yourself for profit is just creepy and killing yourself because you view your life as worthless is a sign of clinical depression or some other debilitating mental condition. I suppose if somebody is in prison for life it may make some kind of morbid sense to offer suicide as an alternative.

I personally believe that purposefully allowing yourself to suffer through living a life of misery is far more a sign of insanity than ending that life. The idea that every life is sacred is religious dogma.

I never said anything about sacred; I'm talking about sanity. Suicidal ideation or action is evidence of mental illness.

I just did, and Hermiod listed a few more. I'm not talking about people who up and kill themselves because they've been through a bad relationship, or kill themselves through depression after not taking meds. I mean people in chronic pain who don't/can't get proper pain relief, people whose life has deteriorated to a point where it's not worth living, or unliveable without the aid of people you'd rather not burden, or you don't want to lose your dignity. Along with some of the examples Hermiod gave I think there are plenty of reasons for suicide being a "good" choice for some people.

I already covered incurable illness. Other than that, it's all a variation on people killing themselves because they have a chemical imbalance or other mental or emotional issue.

I think I'd agree with Hermiod on this. The right of the individual to choose the course of their own life is of paramount importance. That how ethics works for me. The trouble with introducing concepts like 'mentally unbalanced' is that it is such a vague concept that boils down to a simple conflict of will.

Suicidal behavior is about as clear cut as it gets; if that's not mental illness, there's no such thing as mental illness.

The alternative is to force people to endure a suffering that they desperately want to escape from. That is hell, and people who enforce that are evil.

Well, I've never heard of trying to save somebody from suicide described as 'evil' before. Maybe because the real alternative is to cure that suffering before it drives them to kill themselves.

 

[Jadzia]

Well, I've never heard of trying to save somebody from suicide described as 'evil' before. Maybe because the real alternative is to cure that suffering before it drives them to kill themselves.

It isn't just saving somebodies life though. It's also forcing a person to endure an intolerable suffering. And to me that would be cruel. Suffering isn't always curable. We are not miracle workers.

It's like saying that you'd rather face eternal torture in hell, than have no afterlife at all, because your existence is more important than the quality of your experiences.

Prolonging life isn't the apex of the pyramid in my opinion. It's superseded by a need for quality of life. And this is reflected in lifestyle choices too: People routinely sacrifice healthy choices for more pleasurable choices.

This is the reason we have pro-euthanasia arguments. You make a provision to terminally ill people, but it's the horror of an unbearable suffering that motivates the pro-euthanasia movement, not particularly the terminal nature of the illness.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Well, I've never heard of trying to save somebody from suicide described as 'evil' before. Maybe because the real alternative is to cure that suffering before it drives them to kill themselves.

It isn't just saving somebodies life though. It's also forcing a person to endure an intolerable suffering. And to me that would be cruel. Suffering isn't always curable. We are not miracle workers.

It's like saying that you'd rather face eternal torture in hell, than have no afterlife at all, because your existence is more important than the quality of your experiences.

Prolonging life isn't the apex of the pyramid in my opinion. It's superseded by a need for quality of life.

This is the reason we have pro-euthanasia arguments. You make a provision to terminally ill people, but it's the horror of an unbearable suffering that motivates the pro-euthanasia movement, not particularly the terminal nature of the illness.

Totally agree. I don't see why life must be forced on people who don't feel they have a bearable quality of life.

 

[Jayson]

Why do we only consider physical pain as the only acceptable reason for someone to kill someone? To some, going through life without love or a purpose can be equally painful? Oviously people can change or try and change but like it's been mentioned above that alot of people might not have it within themselves to attain these things just because you want them. To me the idea of being a 70 year old man without having meet a girl to fall in love with or having a job that I feel gives my life purpose seems just as bad to me as getting cancer. Who cares if your physically healthy if your feel like your live isn't worth living. At least that's my view.

Jason

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Having just experienced a suicidal episode and subsequent hospitalization (for four days), I would like to comment.

I have suffered from depression on and off for several years. I have been on medication for a while and felt much better. To the point where I didn't think I needed it anymore. So I stopped taking it about 9 months ago. Well, in March of this year, I had a number of stressful situations (some self-generated) which sent me into a tailspin. I was at the point where I went to work but was extremely stressed. I would come home and start crying for hours because I thought I was worthless.

Finally, I seriously considered doing something to hurt myself. But I called my doctor and she persuaded me to call my brother. I really was against that, but finally relented. He dropped everything and took me to the hospital. I participated in my recovery and have since gone back to work. I'm back on the meds (which do work for me) and am nearing the end of my review period for my promotion at work (which I should get within the next month or so; apparently I was doing quality work even when I felt like crap; I did take a month long break to get back in the game).

I discovered some things about myself in the process... I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that is beyond my control (even tho it presents to me as a demon in a metaphorical sense); the meds help that. I'm also enjoying my life more than before. I am very lucky to have the job I have (Library of Congress), the friends I have (two of whom helped me transition back to my outside life); I will be celebrating my 40th birthday in November. And after seeing the events in Iran recently, I am also very grateful that I live in the USA and am able to live my life as I like.

Also, and this may sound strange, I feel like I have a duty to continue living for those who can't (their lives were cut short for various reasons). Does that make sense?

Sorry to make this a tl;dr post, but wanted to add to the discussion.

Thanks for reading,

Peter

"The challenge, Mr. Offenhouse, is to improve yourself, to enrich yourself... enjoy it."--Jean-Luc Picard

That's great to hear Peter. Don't be afraid to be on medications permanently. My girlfriend has been on a low dose of Prozac for about 15 years. Without it she is oversensitive to outside stimulus and gets overstressed to the point of rage constantly. With it she feels like a whole different person. Like you said sometimes the body/brain doesn't work properly and needs a little something to help it along. And your right getting to work in the Library of Congress sounds like a dream come true.

 

[Lookingglassman]

I know a Soldier whose father commited suicide when he was young and this guy is still wrestling with those demons. He has been committed to a mental hospital because of his depression and trying to deal with his father's suicide. He is a good Soldier, but his dad really messed him up. It is sad talking to this guy.

 

[JiNX-01]

My cousin. She had been charged with a crime and was committed by the arraignment judge because she was suicidal.
11 days before Christmas she was released (in violation of the judge's commitment order that she be held for 60 days) and the next afternoon she was gone. She drove her car into her brother's garage, closed the door and laid down under the exhaust pipe while the car was still running. She was still warm when her 21-year-old brother came home and found her.

She had two children, a daughter, age 11 and a son, age 8. They never got over it. Her daughter, who had always been able to talk her mother out of killing herself when she was despondent had to be taken to the emergency room and sedated. The children had been living with my family during their mother's hospitalization.

It was devastating. Anyone contemplating suicide needs to realize that killing yourself is the one thing that can't be fixed. And no explanation will console the people who love you. You will break their hearts -- forever.

 

[Hermiod]

I already covered incurable illness. Killing yourself for profit is just creepy and killing yourself because you view your life as worthless is a sign of clinical depression or some other debilitating mental condition. I suppose if somebody is in prison for life it may make some kind of morbid sense to offer suicide as an alternative.

I haven't said people should just give up. There a billions of people in this world whose lives consist of nothing but daily misery and suffering. Those people have a right to choose how they want their lives to continue even if their choice is that it doesn't.

I never said anything about sacred; I'm talking about sanity. Suicidal ideation or action is evidence of mental illness.

All of which is based on religion. I'll probably get a trolling warning here by further equating religious belief with mental illness so I won't bother. We choose to say the suicidal are mentally ill based on values we choose to have.

I already covered incurable illness. Other than that, it's all a variation on people killing themselves because they have a chemical imbalance or other mental or emotional issue.

You sound like Beverly Crusher or the EMH - clinically reducing mental illness to chemical imbalances.

Well, I've never heard of trying to save somebody from suicide described as 'evil' before. Maybe because the real alternative is to cure that suffering before it drives them to kill themselves.

You're often not saving anyone, just prolonging their misery. There are a lot of things in this world you just can't fix. By the time the person has become suicidal it's too late.

The only way you'll ever rid this world of suicide is to end the exclusionary, selfish, vain, ugly, uncaring society we live in that happily abandons people because they're not rich or pretty enough. Creating some sort of support mechanism for by far the largest at risk group - young men - would be a start.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, I've never heard of trying to save somebody from suicide described as 'evil' before. Maybe because the real alternative is to cure that suffering before it drives them to kill themselves.

It isn't just saving somebodies life though. It's also forcing a person to endure an intolerable suffering. And to me that would be cruel. Suffering isn't always curable. We are not miracle workers.

Yes, it is saving somebody's life. People kill themselves because of depression, low self esteem and other psychological issues; these can usually be treated. The reason they can usually be treated is because suicidal behavior has correctly been considered mental illness and researched accordingly. The way to improve treatment is not to pretend that destroying yourself is healthy behavior.

I haven't said people should just give up. There a billions of people in this world whose lives consist of nothing but daily misery and suffering. Those people have a right to choose how they want their lives to continue even if their choice is that it doesn't.

I see. So if somebody decides that the little purple man who sits on his shoulder is correct in saying that God wants him to lay down on the railroad tracks, he should have the Right to do so?

All of which is based on religion. I'll probably get a trolling warning here by further equating religious belief with mental illness so I won't bother. We choose to say the suicidal are mentally ill based on values we choose to have.

Yeah, values like hurting and killing are bad. This isn't religion. It's common sense.

You sound like Beverly Crusher or the EMH - clinically reducing mental illness to chemical imbalances.

Because that's reality.

You're often not saving anyone, just prolonging their misery. There are a lot of things in this world you just can't fix. By the time the person has become suicidal it's too late.

No, it's not. This is disproved daily. People who fail at suicide or change their minds are usually pretty happy about it later on; I don't know of any successful suicides who are happy about it later on.

The only way you'll ever rid this world of suicide is to end the exclusionary, selfish, vain, ugly, uncaring society we live in that happily abandons people because they're not rich or pretty enough. Creating some sort of support mechanism for by far the largest at risk group - young men - would be a start.

So, after all that, you do believe that suicidal behavior can be treated-- but with politics, rather than science or religion.

 

[Hermiod]

I see. So if somebody decides that the little purple man who sits on his shoulder is correct in saying that God wants him to lay down on the railroad tracks, he should have the Right to do so?

Ultimately yes, but you're still working on the assumption that in the big venn diagram of suicidal people, they all fall in to the mentally ill category.

No, it's not. This is disproved daily. People who fail at suicide or change their minds are usually pretty happy about it later on; I don't know of any successful suicides who are happy about it later on.

They're usually happy about it because it made someone finally see why they tried to do it in the first place.

So, after all that, you do believe that suicidal behavior can be treated-- but with politics, rather than science or religion.

My way is prevention, not a treatment and nothing to do with politics. The premise that humans are fundamentally good is flawed. We are not, we are fundamentally cruel, selfish, ignorant creatures who have invented laws and morals to prevent us from falling in to complete anarchy.

These morals and laws still, however, allow billions of people to fall through the cracks. People nobody cares about outside the occasional moment of celebrity lip service. The support networks that might help them through their problems just don't exist for those people.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I see. So if somebody decides that the little purple man who sits on his shoulder is correct in saying that God wants him to lay down on the railroad tracks, he should have the Right to do so?

Ultimately yes, but you're still working on the assumption that in the big venn diagram of suicidal people, they all fall in to the mentally ill category.

With few exceptions-- none relevant to this conversation-- they do. Do you really think someone that hears voices and sees imaginary people is competent to make a decision about ending his life?

They're usually happy about it because it made someone finally see why they tried to do it in the first place.

They're happy because they're alive, however it happened.

My way is prevention, not a treatment and nothing to do with politics. The premise that humans are fundamentally good is flawed. We are not, we are fundamentally cruel, selfish, ignorant creatures who have invented laws and morals to prevent us from falling in to complete anarchy.

These morals and laws still, however, allow billions of people to fall through the cracks. People nobody cares about outside the occasional moment of celebrity lip service. The support networks that might help them through their problems just don't exist for those people.

Prevention is good, and a perfect world is better. In the meantime, we have people who because of various combinations of nature and nurture have fallen into a pit and decided there's no way out. They need to be saved, not indulged.

 

[James Wright]

I had a friend who like me(is) was confined to a wheelchar, his confinement was due to accident with a gun, we went to school together and he'd help me with my homework and he was a gentle soul. Ironically he used a gun.
I've had friends who were class mates pass away due to natural causes and AIDS!

James

 

[Chi'pok]

Dark Journey: thanks for your kind comments. It's been a bit of a rough road, but I'm back on the way.

FYI: the featured article on Wikipedia today is Major Depressive Disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

PS: for those of you who have been following the news, the Metro situation here in DC is bad. I live in Silver Spring just above where the accident occurred. I am fine. I took a cab home last nite.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Good to hear. I'm glad you weren't involved in that terrible accident.

 

[RandyS]

Anyone contemplating suicide needs to realize that killing yourself is the one thing that can't be fixed. And no explanation will console the people who love you. You will break their hearts -- forever.

Particularly when you only suspect that's what happened but are told otherwise. It's the never knowing for sure that can drive you nuts.

 

[Evil Twin]

Just lost a cousin who was schizophrenic to suicide this week. My aunt and uncle, who had come to my brother's wedding this past Satuday, arrived home Monday night and found him dead in their house. Very sad, especially coming right on the heels of a such happy family event. Can't imagine what they're going through right now. A shame I won't be able to make it to the funeral tomorrow.

 

[Capn Flukie]

Yes. Back in the 80s a friend of mine who had mental illness hung himself with his jeans while in jail for something he didn't do. I found out about it from some asshole on my birthday. Poor Patrick, he was a good if disturbed guy.

 

[Da'an]

I've thought about it on and off ever since my early teens (I'm now almost 30) but I doubt I'll actually go through with it, (otherwise I'd have done so years ago) because any method that might ever be available would involve pain and suffering. I don't want the last thing I feel to be suffering, just in case from my own perspective, it lasts forever.

Death doesn't bother me, just the actual process of dying.

 

[captain jerk 3]

It was terrible my best friend and i were at the corn factory and then he just jumped into the boiling pot for no reason whatsoeva
it was so terrible ik cried for years with out stopping but now im good with it it happend when i was exactly 6 years 2months 1day 16hours 17 seconds and 48 miliseconds