Has the Red Angel moved the show out of the Prime Universe?

[Mudd]

Sorry, but......for someone with a burning desire to share top secret, behind-the-scenes info, we seem to have an issue with the most basic details.

Thoughts.

Here's one:

There's at least one well-known and extremely talented artist who worked on Trek for decades and has made highly significant contributions to modern Trek both on TV and in the movies. And if you seek out the writings of this person online, you might find that their written work is often badly misspelled and even lacking, sometimes, in basic grammar.

Not everyone who's really skilled at some things is necessarily good at all others. Do you follow?

This isn't the first forum that's ever been trolled by someone with faux "inside info." I think it's funny.

I expect that this is going to get funnier in the next month or so, but it's not going to be at Hoity Toity's expense.

I find your skepticism amusing.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Spelling errors and whatnot are not crucial. If they are in any way lampooned, it should be done only in a humorous, good-natured way and not meant with serious, derogatory intention. There is a BIG difference.

 

[Kerock]

Well if there are going to be time travelers ... they have already been here ... count the butterflies.

 

[Ravenswood]

Spelling errors and whatnot are not crucial. If they are in any way lampooned, it should be done only in a humorous, good-natured way and not meant with serious, derogatory intention. There is a BIG difference.

I'm not exactly lampooning, nor am I critiquing spelling for spelling's sake. That ship and character names are not merely misspelled but wildly incorrect, along with other details that don't pass the sniff test, lead me away from believing this person has even basic knowledge of DSC, let alone inside information. I may he proved wrong. I may be proved right. That remains to be seen.

Btw, he hotlinked Comic Book Guy. Just saying.

 

[Mudd]

I'm not exactly lampooning, nor am I critiquing spelling for spelling's sake.

No, you were just nitpicking.

That ship and character names are not merely misspelled but wildly incorrect

The examples you cited were, in fact, just badly misspelled. Nits.

I may be proved wrong.

That's a good bet.

 

[Noname Given]

Just an idea... The writers said that since before season 1 started that it was in the prime universe.. but..

Since it seems Mitchel was killed on Vulcan as a small child by some beastie and only lived because the Red Angel from the future helped to change things.

Did that shift the whole timeline from that point forward?

This might explain why Spock never spoke of his sister in any other series (cuz she's long dead).

Also Michael was partly responsible for getting the spore drive running by using the tardigrade. Without her it might never have been fully realized which could be another reason it's not in any other series.

OR... is every show we have ever seen to date because of the actions of the red angel. So essentially we are seeing how the prime universe started and we have never seen the universe in which Michael died as a child and all the following consequences.

There are a million other examples which I am sure you can think of to help or go against this though.

Thoughts?

If you want to get technical the whole timeline was probably changed when Picard and Co. went back to 2063 and the events of Star Trek: First Contact occurred.<--- And we KNOW stuff was changed because of the Sphere wreckage found just under a century later in ENT S2 - "Regeneration".

So, you want something to blame? I give you: ST:TNG

 

[XCV330]

Who is Mitchel?.

A Joe Don Baker movie. A really bad Joe Don Baker movie, even by Joe Don Baker Standards.

If you ask me, since circa 2009 fandom as a whole is much too obsessed with all this timeline nonsense. It‘s all ”Which timeline is this?“, ”This doesn‘t look like that universe“ and ”Is it Prime?“

Easier to just embrace that time is only linear as perceived and is in fact probably something more like a big multidimensional tableau where everything happens at once in infinite ways and intersecting frames of connection must be perceived as causation just so that whole thing doesn't come off entirely as nonsense. Prime Nonsense.

Btw, he hotlinked Comic Book Guy. Just saying.

We're all Comic Book Guy. Embrace it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

First Contact in 2063.

A Krenim timeship endlessly deleting entire cultures and ending in a reset of at least 300 years of history in "Year of Hell"

A Time War where Enterprise NX-01 was originally meant to be destroyed in 2151, where alien Nazis ended up in the white house in WWII and where the timeline was explicitly shifted in 2153 to one without Sphere Builders or a Delphic Expanse.

A 29th century time ship appearing in the 60's, found by Trek's version of Bill Gates and beginning the computer revolution in "Future's End"

Angry future Romulans in 2233, with effects rippling both ways through the timeline according to the latest Star Trek Encyclopedia.

Now a Red Angel explicitly changing events as far back as Michael Burnham surviving when she ran away on Vulcan as a child.

And loads more that I've forgotten. I once tried to draw an epic chart of every timeline in all of Trek, showing where and when they all split off and re-merged but quit when I realised it was completely impossible to map Voyager's history to one coherent base timeline.

So the idea of a "prime universe" is something of a joke. One can argue that cloaking devices in ENT and DSC are the result of interference in 2151, and that's seperate from TOS because until "Balance of Terror" they were explictly only "a theoretical possibility". Or you can ignore contradictory lines and smoosh them together into the same history if you wish.

It's all something of a mess.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Ok, lots of stuff to address here.

Lol. Loser

I"m so picturing Ravenswood now... "Worst autocorrect EVER"

"Mitchel" or the Red Angel should travel back in time to discover what made you so bitter

I think its funny too and I know I'm getting the last laugh when what I said comes true. Either way I don't care what you think though. Since you have nothing interesting to say I guess you can just go around being Commander Spell check. You're officially the first person I've added to the ignore list. Congrats and bye.

- I know Ravenswood was questioning the veracity of your claims which they're allowed to do), but calling someone a "loser" is flaming and will be warned as such if something similar happens again.
- The "bitter" comment and Comic Book Guy image are personal remarks that will also get you in trouble.
- I don't know if ComicVine allows hotlinking or not, but since the image was being used to mock another poster, I'm removing it anyway.
- Don't announce that you're putting people on the ignore list. Besides being the opposite of actually ignoring them, it's against the rules and can be considered trolling.

Adding an emoji after the insults doesn't make it ok. I'm giving you a second chance here since you were defending yourself against claims of lying about having inside connections, but that's going to happen when you claim insider knowledge, and you can't react this way each time.

You called her Mitchel in the first post, friend. I'm not bitter, I'm amused. This isn't the first forum that's ever been trolled by someone with faux "inside info." I think it's funny.

Don't accuse him of trolling. If you've got a problem with what he's posting, report it and let the mods deal with it.

There were no infractions handed out here, so let's just move on. Comments to PM if anyone has anything else to say.

 

[Crazyewok]

If you ask me, since circa 2009 fandom as a whole is much too obsessed with all this timeline nonsense. It‘s all ”Which timeline is this?“, ”This doesn‘t look like that universe“ and ”Is it Prime?“

Because some of us like world building.

And you can only do that with CONSISTENCY.

I don't get need or want of destroying canon and continuity.

Startrek is set in SPACE a vast place of unlimited stories only a bad writer would feel trapped and contrained by Canon.
You can easily have interesting stories AND continuity between series and episodes...... just don't hire hacks to be producers and writer's.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Because some of us like world building.

And you can only do that with CONSISTENCY.

I don't get need or want of destroying canon and continuity.

Good thing they didn't do either. All the shows are available for purchase.

Startrek is set in SPACE a vast place of unlimited stories only a bad writer would feel trapped and contrained by Canon.

Good thing they are trying different stuff instead of being hamstrung by canon and continuity of past series.

You can easily have interesting stories AND continuity between series and episodes...... just don't hire hacks to be producers and writer's.

They didn't but there are always those folks who want difference until they don't.
One minute- We want new Trek!
The next- This isn't like old Trek!

It's best the producers don't listen to that crowd.

 

[Midquest]

Because some of us like world building.

And you can only do that with CONSISTENCY.

Well, they've gone to great extents to fit into the canon we have, to do really quite a bit of world-building, and to maintain continuity. I'm very happy with the care they've taken, personally.

 

[zar]

OR... is every show we have ever seen to date because of the actions of the red angel. So essentially we are seeing how the prime universe started and we have never seen the universe in which Michael died as a child and all the following consequences.

By definition the prime universe is every show we've seen to date, including at least the first season of Discovery. Logically, Michael's life being saved could not have caused the show to "shift" or "move" out of the prime universe, given that she was already alive in the first place. Whether her future was altered or not is irrelevant. Michael being alive in 2256-2257 is Prime in the same way that Picard playing poker with his friends in 2370, and everything that followed that, is Prime.

 

[Crazyewok]

Good thing they didn't do either. All the shows are available for purchase.


Good thing they are trying different stuff instead of being hamstrung by canon and continuity of past series.


They didn't but there are always those folks who want difference until they don't.
One minute- We want new Trek!
The next- This isn't like old Trek!

It's best the producers don't listen to that crowd.

That's a fallacy.

You can have new stuff and different directions AND have continuity/ Canon.

It's not one or the other. A good writer can make both work.

Both crowds can be pleased.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That's a fallacy.

What is?

You can have new stuff and different directions AND have continuity/ Canon.

Good thing we do, then.

It's not one or the other. A good writer can make both work.

And they have.

Both crowds can be pleased.

Not you, seemingly, but many folks are pleased with Disco.

 

[zar]

You can have new stuff and different directions AND have continuity/ Canon.

It's not one or the other. A good writer can make both work.

Both crowds can be pleased.

And yet... they aren't.

 

[Crazyewok]

What is?


Good thing we do, then.


And they have.


Not you, seemingly, but many folks are pleased with Disco.

Where did I say I am not pleased with discovery?

I rather enjoy it.

I have a few niggles,like hairless Klingons (which they are fixing) and think Michael's a little dull, but over all I like it.

 

[BillJ]

We're all Comic Book Guy. Embrace it.

Winner!

 

[DaveyNY]

Can we get back to Inside Info now?

 

[ChristopherPike]

Lay in a course, Mister Moe. I suspect our future is there waiting for us.

Do ya wanna stop calling me Mister Moe?

No.