Harry Kim's promotion... or lack of it.

[Kobayshi Maru]

It's interesting how the Hirogen call every other species "prey" even the ones that are clearly superior to them. When you see how badly they got hurt for chasing ONE member of 8472! Imagine if the rest of the 8472 got wind of this and decided to wipe them out. They wouldn't stand a chance. Not unless Janway decided to given them a hand, at any rate. After all she's well known for helping her enemies.

 

[Catarina]

how do we know the doctor didn' t persuade Kim to hold off in hopes of playing off their "brilliant" plan?
And promises that Janeway made, I wouldn't have given the hirogen nothing. The dude died, the direness of the situation changed.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Doctors opinion is worth shit because he is a light bulb.

You go back far enough and he is Barclay.

Now Barclay himself might have had some moments of genius where he saved the day, but what's really engrained into the Doctors interpersonality subroutines is the pompous superhero who fought the midget holoRiker to a standstill and then ploughed holoDeanna... Or at least put himself in a position where a less reputable man would have treated her like untiled farmland, but silly Broccoli just told the pretty avatar how nice her hair was for an hour and then went back to reality.

 

[JD5000]

Did Barclay work with Zimmerman on the Mark I EMH, or did he only get involved in Zimmerman's work after that? I can't remember if that's made clear in, I think 'Life Line' is the episode.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Season 2 Projections

EMH: And the crew didn't really abandon ship.
TUVOK: No. In fact, except for the computer problems, it has been an uneventful day.
EMH: And who is this Lieutenant Barclay I imagined.
KIM: Barclay was part of the original engineering team that designed your programme. He was in charge of testing your interpersonal skills.
EMH: Well, this should make an interesting paper.

Season 6 Pathfinder.

(A champagne celebration is taking place.)
TORRES: Anyone know this Barclay?
EMH: I took the liberty of reviewing his personnel file. He's had a rather colourful career, not to mention an unusual medical history. He's recovered from a variety of maladies, including transporter phobia and holo-addiction.
JANEWAY: Well, whatever his problems, he certainly came through for us.
CHAKOTAY: Starfleet should give him a promotion.
SEVEN: I finished analysing the data Mister Barclay sent. The hyper-subspace technology is promising. I believe we can look forward to future communications with Earth.
NEELIX: Well, that calls for a toast.
JANEWAY: Care to do the honours, Tom?
PARIS: To my Dad. It's nice to know he's still there. And to the newest honorary member of the Voyager crew, Reginald Barclay. Whoever you are.
JANEWAY: Here, here. To Mister Barclay.

This is one of the reasons that I think that we didn't follow the same ship from the same timeline the entire seven years.

Of course what's Dwight's excuse for forgetting his residuals on season 2?

 

[JD5000]

Interesting contradiction, I'm not surprised I had trouble remembering if he was part of it or not.

 

[bbjeg]

...This is one of the reasons that I think that we didn't follow the same ship from the same timeline the entire seven years...

I got that feeling too, and more so with Kes in particular, especially after she saw her whole life (and children with Tom) being sent back displacing the original Kes in that episode, who was earlier visited by a future Kes who wanted to destroy Voyager, to later forget that encounter, as well as the possible happy future, to return to Voyager to blow it up, where she's shown a past Kes to remind her which Kes she was way back in the beginning.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

The Doctors opinion is worth shit because he is a light bulb.

You go back far enough and he is Barclay.

Now Barclay himself might have had some moments of genius where he saved the day, but what's really engrained into the Doctors interpersonality subroutines is the pompous superhero who fought the midget holoRiker to a standstill and then ploughed holoDeanna... Or at least put himself in a position where a less reputable man would have treated her like untiled farmland, but silly Broccoli just told the pretty avatar how nice her hair was for an hour and then went back to reality.

It's a family show. What did you expect?

 

[Lance]

...This is one of the reasons that I think that we didn't follow the same ship from the same timeline the entire seven years...

I got that feeling too, and more so with Kes in particular, especially after she saw her whole life (and children with Tom) being sent back displacing the original Kes in that episode, who was earlier visited by a future Kes who wanted to destroy Voyager, to later forget that encounter, as well as the possible happy future, to return to Voyager to blow it up, where she's shown a past Kes to remind her which Kes she was way back in the beginning.

Bizarro time travel plots were one of Brannon Braga's pet favorite subjects, and while it was tapped well in things like his TNG script "Cause And Effect", in Voyager and Enterprise (when he had the keys to the car), it ended up creating vast continuity snarls due to all the overlapping it seemed to do in the format.

I know I harp on alot about "Deadlock" here, but it was one of the first times I felt the Trek writer's room were flipping the bird to the audience re: presenting us with a consistent universe. I can't invest emotionally in the character of Harry Kim when I've got the niggling feeling that every episode after that point we aren't seeing the same guy we saw from "Caretaker" to "Deadlock" anymore.

It's a bit like Tom Riker. I know they tossed around the idea of killing off Will and replacing him with Tom, but I'm really kind of glad they didn't, because in retrospect it would have felt like a cheat. 'Replica Harry Taking Our Harry's Place' feels like a similar emotional cheat, except they actually went through with that one.

"Before and After" is a similar cheat, especially when we get to "Year Of Hell" and none of that shit goes down the same way. And then YoH turns out to be a reset button anyway.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

...This is one of the reasons that I think that we didn't follow the same ship from the same timeline the entire seven years...

I got that feeling too, and more so with Kes in particular, especially after she saw her whole life (and children with Tom) being sent back displacing the original Kes in that episode, who was earlier visited by a future Kes who wanted to destroy Voyager, to later forget that encounter, as well as the possible happy future, to return to Voyager to blow it up, where she's shown a past Kes to remind her which Kes she was way back in the beginning.

Bizarro time travel plots were one of Brannon Braga's pet favorite subjects, and while it was tapped well in things like his TNG script "Cause And Effect", in Voyager and Enterprise (when he had the keys to the car), it ended up creating vast continuity snarls due to all the overlapping it seemed to do in the format.

I know I harp on alot about "Deadlock" here, but it was one of the first times I felt the Trek writer's room were flipping the bird to the audience re: presenting us with a consistent universe. I can't invest emotionally in the character of Harry Kim when I've got the niggling feeling that every episode after that point we aren't seeing the same guy we saw from "Caretaker" to "Deadlock" anymore.

It's a bit like Tom Riker. I know they tossed around the idea of killing off Will and replacing him with Tom, but I'm really kind of glad they didn't, because in retrospect it would have felt like a cheat. 'Replica Harry Taking Our Harry's Place' feels like a similar emotional cheat, except they actually went through with that one.

"Before and After" is a similar cheat, especially when we get to "Year Of Hell" and none of that shit goes down the same way. And then YoH turns out to be a reset button anyway.

Actually, Harry and Naomi could very well be the genuine ones and every one else a copy, there's no way to tell.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Except for the subspace variance to their DNA?

One crew had it, and the other was normal.

Kes fell through a space vagina, woke up in a sick bay with an alive Naomi mewling in the corner, and this waking up Kes was the one we are told had the Subspace variance to her DNA, which means that Naomi didn't.

As far as Sam abandoning Naomi goes, that is slightly more understandable. Most say it's because her child was a worthless fake. but if the kid is real and she's just some phantom replacement, it is she that is worthless and might as well wander off.

Love is more important that biology?

Kim and Naomi were the only people without badly copied cruddy DNA, until Seven turned up.

So sad.

Of course the variance could just be an after effect of being copied, which means that the copies would seem perfect and the originals would be scarred from the copying process, or it's just the act of penetrating the membrane between the two ships that jarred the DNA of the travellers in transit, and therefore has nothing to do with who is real and who is fake.

No, the copies where only made a few hours earlier, and the effect would not have altered the text books describing what DNA looked like, so don't try and argue mirror universe with mes that every one had had different DNA since the Big Bang. Thank you.

Yashi, Reg may have been a gentleman, but Dee (initially) did not believe that.

It was her mind that went straight into the gutter.

Maybe she's vain and thinks that all men want to sleep with her, or maybe she's not vain and still thinks that all men want to sleep with her, we'll never know, but the point was that she assumed that Barclay's spankbank was full of her smiling face wearing smiles that she had not made. He stole her face! As well as the rest of her. He's lucky she didn't slap the rest of his hair off.

It's funny when the 90s thinks that it's being edgy.

Oh, do you remember that game show Studs?

Just awful.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

So the demon planet crew were only copies of copies then... No wonder they were so screwed up. I wonder what would have happened if demon Seven was re-assimilated by the borg... would that have stabilized her?

 

[JD5000]

Don't forget fake O'Brien from 'Visionary' too.

Does anyone in this century die as the person they were born as?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Don't forget fake O'Brien from 'Visionary' too.

Does anyone in this century die as the person they were born as?

There's the eternal debate: Is a person after transport really the same as the one before it, or simply a copy? If the latter then that means that transporters essentially murder people and replace them by copies...


Maybe Archer was unknowingly right when he told that religious leader that transporters were the most humane way to execute people.

 

[bbjeg]

^That's why I would rather take shuttles if transporters ever exist.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

^That's why I would rather take shuttles if transporters ever exist.

Fortunately that's still decades, if not centuries off.

 

[bbjeg]

^That's why I would rather take shuttles if transporters ever exist.

Fortunately that's still decades, if not centuries off.

If ever.

 

[JD5000]

I thought we were talking about time travel duplicates and mimetic goo clones?

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I thought we were talking about time travel duplicates and mimetic goo clones?

We were? I am sorry but I thought it was duplicates in general.

 

[JD5000]

As you stated, transporter duplication is debatable (exemption Tom Riker), the other examples are pretty clear-cut.