Harrasment

[MetalPants]

it makes no logical sense to stay with someone who is an abuser.

No it doesn't. If you hadn't noticed, humanity is far from being a logical species.

 

[SomniumRabidum]

it makes no logical sense to stay with someone who is an abuser.

No it doesn't. If you hadn't noticed, humanity is far from being a logical species.

Ain't that the truth! Even the most logical among us are still driven by feelings, as much as they might struggle against that fact.

I've known several women in abusive relationships, and normally it requires a group effort from her friends and family to make her see that she'd be better off leaving the guy. And even that has no guarantee of success.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

One of the reasons that more women don't come forward is attitudes like this.

Hey, it's the truth.

Shifting the blame to the abused is, as I said initially, uninformed and insulting. It's also a pattern that shows up in many abusers. Of course, I'm not suggesting that YOU are an abuser.

No one is shifting the blame. At least I am not. Let me make myself clearer for you lest you continue to suffer a disconnect.

There is no justification for someone to abuse anyone. However, the person being abused shouldn't expect different results if they stay with the abuser. It's not shifting the blame. It's reality.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

You obviously have a lot invested in your cynical pose, and it's certainly very fashionable, but Humanity is not even close to the way you want it to be.

As someone that had invested a lot in my cynical pose, I agree with that. I used to agree with Somnium, but growing older I started to change my stance about the fundamental nature of mankind.

Hey, it's the truth.

Shifting the blame to the abused is, as I said initially, uninformed and insulting. It's also a pattern that shows up in many abusers. Of course, I'm not suggesting that YOU are an abuser.

No, but most likely he is one who was never harassed, and still feel the need to be judgmental about that. Let's hear about the time when he was a woman in an abusive relationship and how he got free using his superior intellect, and then he can be all haughty about that.

9-1-1.

 

[iguana_tonante]

No, but most likely he is one who was never harassed, and still feel the need to be judgmental about that. Let's hear about the time when he was a woman in an abusive relationship and how he got free using his superior intellect, and then he can be all haughty about that.

9-1-1.

Oh, so you were a woman in an abusive relationship? You didn't told us about the sex change operation you had in the past! Then you obviously know everything you need to know about that, since you have been in those shoes. Silly me to doubt that.

 

[SPOCKED]

SomniumRabidum, you need to stop the flaming. If you feel baited, notify the moderator. This is the only friendly warning I will give.

< edit > I missed RJ's earlier friendly, which means that your post here merits an infraction for flaming.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

No, but most likely he is one who was never harassed, and still feel the need to be judgmental about that. Let's hear about the time when he was a woman in an abusive relationship and how he got free using his superior intellect, and then he can be all haughty about that.

9-1-1.

Oh, so you were a woman in an abusive relationship? You didn't told us about the sex change operation you had in the past! Then you obviously know everything you need to know about that, since you have been in those shoes. Silly me to doubt that.

I thought women wanted to be considered equals? Or does that only apply when it's convenient?

 

[SomniumRabidum]

I thought women wanted to be considered equals? Or does that only apply when it's convenient?

Let me just speed up this conversation for you. Yes, it only applies when it's convenient.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I thought women wanted to be considered equals? Or does that only apply when it's convenient?

Let me just speed up this conversation for you. Yes, it only applies when it's convenient.

As I always suspected....

 

[iguana_tonante]

I thought women wanted to be considered equals? Or does that only apply when it's convenient?

Let me just speed up this conversation for you. Yes, it only applies when it's convenient.

As I always suspected....

Yeah, keep circle-jerking at each other, I'm sure it would do wonders to your credibility on this thread. I'm sure women are cackling every night, seeing how they ensnared society into doing their bidding. I mean, it's not like there are ten thousands years of still deeply-ingrained gender repression to overcome.

I suggest you to put yourself in a situation before judging it. Have you been a woman in an abusive relationship? A minority in a racist environment? A foreign national in an underpaid job? I suppose not. You have always been in the position of power, authority and rule. You know nothing about harassment. Yet, you feel the need to inform oppressed people how they should behave themselves. I know the type: armchair generals; WASP lecturers on discrimination; male counselors on women's studies. Geez, it's really a shame people can't be good and smart like you, in your comfortable neck-of-the-woods, shaking your heads at those inferior people.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Hey, it's the truth.

Shifting the blame to the abused is, as I said initially, uninformed and insulting. It's also a pattern that shows up in many abusers. Of course, I'm not suggesting that YOU are an abuser.

No one is shifting the blame. At least I am not. Let me make myself clearer for you lest you continue to suffer a disconnect.

Ahem.

However, the person being abused shouldn't expect different results if they stay with the abuser.

This ^^^ is shifting the blame.

Here's some information that may be helpful to you, or others:
Warning Signs

As for your comments about equality -

Positioning a male abuser as the actor in a news article on sexual assault isn’t accusing all men of being abusers, just as identifying women as victims doesn’t imply that all women have suffered from sexual harassment or intimidation in the workplace. But let’s be real here. Men are the overwhelming majority of perpetrators of violence against women — as they are the overwhelming majority of perpetrators of violence against men, for that matter. And using the passive voice in articles on gendered violence positions female victims as somehow the root of the problem. It shifts the responsibility and blame from the actor to the person on the receiving end of the abuse.

Link.

 

[SomniumRabidum]

Yeah, keep circle-jerking at each other, I'm sure it would do wonders to your credibility on this thread. I'm sure women are cackling every night, seeing how they ensnared society into doing their bidding. I mean, it's not like there are ten thousands years of still deeply-ingrained gender repression to overcome.

I suggest you to put yourself in a situation before judging it. Have you been a woman in an abusive relationship? A minority in a racist environment? A foreign national in an underpaid job? I suppose not. You have always been in the position of power, authority and rule. You know nothing about harassment. Yet, you feel the need to inform oppressed people how they should behave themselves. I know the type: armchair generals; WASP lecturers on discrimination; male counselors on women's studies. Geez, it's really a shame people can't be good and smart like you, in your comfortable neck-of-the-woods, shaking your heads at those inferior people.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you weren't directing most of that at me...

Please refrain from extrapolating these ridiculous stances from my posts. Where are you getting this sh1t???

I'm not sexist, racist, etc... I'm just not retarded either. Women and men are NOT on equal ground in this country (U.S.). Women are still victims of several forms of discrimination, which sucks. But let's not pretend that there aren't instances where the reverse is true. Wake up from the dreamworld you walk around in and take a deep breath of reality once in a while.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you weren't directing most of that at me...

I'm not in any way implying that you are sexist or racist. But from your posts, it's quite apparent that you know nothing about abuse, harassment and discrimination, yet reserve the right to lay judgment upon people suffering through those. That is something at which I'm inclined to take exception.

Please refrain from extrapolating these ridiculous stances from my posts. Where are you getting this sh1t???

Will you please refrain from typing "sh1t" and "assh0le"? It's kinda ridiculous. Shit. Asshole. See? Nothing happened. If you don't like swearing, that's cool. But this kind of tiptoeing around is juvenile.

I'm not sexist, racist, etc... I'm just not retarded either. Women and men are NOT on equal ground in this country (U.S.). Women are still victims of several forms of discrimination, which sucks.

Ok, very well. Then how you can reconcile this agreeable sentiment with:

I thought women wanted to be considered equals? Or does that only apply when it's convenient?

Let me just speed up this conversation for you. Yes, it only applies when it's convenient.

As I always suspected....

Because as I see it, you are kinda contradicting yourself.

Tell me this: can you, in all honesty, fairly and accurately judge a situation where you were never involved? Or it would be better to let people who know the situation deal with it?

Because, what you are doing is telling someone who has been hit by a car "you should have run faster"?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

It's most certainly not shifting the blame. And your attemot to link me to abuse is unbecoming of most people. Most.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you weren't directing most of that at me...

I'm not in any way implying that you are sexist or racist. But from your posts, it's quite apparent that you know nothing about abuse, harassment and discrimination, yet reserve the right to lay judgment upon people suffering through those. That is something at which I'm inclined to take exception.

Please refrain from extrapolating these ridiculous stances from my posts. Where are you getting this sh1t???

Will you please refrain from typing "sh1t" and "assh0le"? It's kinda ridiculous. Shit. Asshole. See? Nothing happened. If you don't like swearing, that's cool. But this kind of tiptoeing around is juvenile.


Ok, very well. Then how you can reconcile this agreeable sentiment with:

Let me just speed up this conversation for you. Yes, it only applies when it's convenient.

As I always suspected....

Because as I see it, you are kinda contradicting yourself.

Tell me this: can you, in all honesty, fairly and accurately judge a situation where you were never involved? Or it would be better to let people who know the situation deal with it?

Because, what you are doing is telling someone who has been hit by a car "you should have run faster"?

I'd tell the person who got hit by the car not to stand in the middle of the street in the future.

 

[SomniumRabidum]

Because as I see it, you are kinda contradicting yourself.
Tell me this: can you, in all honesty, fairly and accurately judge a situation where you were never involved? Or it would be better to let people who know the situation deal with it?
Because, what you are doing is telling someone who has been hit by a car "you should have run faster"?

Ok, I'm going to skip the rest of your post as it basically amounts to us barking at each other over things we cannot possibly reconcile. I type sh1t and assh0le and f*ck out of habit, get over it.

I NEVER accused the harassed of any wrongdoing, so I don't know where this particular brand of hostility is coming from. I'm aware that I've made some hostile statements, and I'm prepared to defend them fully, but you're accusing me of things I haven't even said.

When I said "it's only true when it's convenient" I wasn't referring to sexual harassment. I was simply referring to exactly what I said, sexual equality is very often only insisted upon when it's convenient for women.

Now, I'm not crying foul here or anything... clearly, men have had it pretty damn easy compared to women. But swinging the pendulum the other direction doesn't amount to progress. The pendulum obviously isn't on the opposite side yet, and won't be for a while, women still endure discrimination on many levels, but I'm afraid that SOMETIMES there are double standards on both sides.

In NC, a woman can kill a man because she SUSPECTS that he wanted to rape her. Yes, it's that simple. Now, can I say the same thing and kill someone? Of course not.

See... that's what I'm referring to. I'm not making giant blanket statements about reverse-sexism or anything, just pointing out that the feminist movement in our society has some pretty bassackwards stances on things.

 

[Hoser]

I'd tell the person who got hit by the car not to stand in the middle of the street in the future.

It's the fact that you're simplifying it to that which makes people frustrated.

 

[SomniumRabidum]

I'd tell the person who got hit by the car not to stand in the middle of the street in the future.

It's the fact that you're simplifying it to that which makes people frustrated.

To be fair, most of this entire discussion has been a gross oversimplification of a very complex issue that needs to be approached on a case-by-case basis.

 

[SmoothieX]

Her ass meant nothin' to me!

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I'd tell the person who got hit by the car not to stand in the middle of the street in the future.

It's the fact that you're simplifying it to that which makes people frustrated.

I'm not the one that drew the analogy.