Grade "Cogenitor"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by T'Bonz, May 1, 2003.

  1. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 10, 2002
    Los Angeles
    A few people have mentioned that Trip acted out of character by trying to help the cogenitor, but I think Trip was very much in character. In "Broken Bow", T'Pol had to drag Trip away, not once but twice, from helping some aliens who seem to be getting abused.
  2. Lordsuhn

    Lordsuhn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 13, 2002
    Indianapolis, IN USA
    Those were some fine blinks to. I'm thinking emmy!
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A little late, but I give it an A-.

    1. A decision that needs to be made.

    2. Some actual science fiction (albeit a bit warmed over).

    3. Actual consequences.

    Now, if they can only figure out that the A plot and the B plot don't have to both resolve in a single episode....
  4. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 9, 2001
    Raoul the Red Shirt
    These people flew a revolutionary system that moved along 5 dimensions instead of the three that we use. One would think a pilot would be interested in checking it out.

    As explorers with an exceptionally quick ability to consume material (the captain read all of Shakespeare's plays in one night and began on something else), they undoubtedly had detailed information about all sorts of languages that a linguist would be overjoyed to have.

    It would have taken three lines for each of them, max to have each of them doing something.
    Anna Yolei likes this.
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    One of the good things about the episode, though, I thought, was its economy. There were a lot of elipses in the script, where viewers would have to fill in what had happened between two scenes from context. So they didn't show everyone doing everything. I can live with that.
  6. Praxis

    Praxis Captain Captain

    Mar 30, 2001
    Cape Cod, MA
    Quite Right!
  7. Praxis

    Praxis Captain Captain

    Mar 30, 2001
    Cape Cod, MA
    I couldn't agree more
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest


    It's actually better than I expected, but B&B's habit of portraying major characters as incompetent fools (Trip) like they did on VOY (Neelix, Paris, etc) is something that needs to be ditched in a bad way.
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    D-. I think the last few episodes were pretty strong (For Enterprise), but...well, here are my problems with Cogenitor.

    1) They carefully avoided saying the word 'slavery' when that's clearly what it is. As if the audience would hate Archer if he applied the pre-prime directive to another culture's slavery.

    2-3) Too much suspension of disbelief.
    2) Logistically. You *can't* learn a language in a day, especially if you're learning it phonetically without learning the letters first, and especially if you're already an adult. As if they needed to make her spectacular to convince the audience that cogenitors could be equals. (And notice that they made 'it' look female instead of male just cause the target 18-49 males would rather picture it that way)

    3) Scientifically. Star Trek has always held that carbon based life forms all have DNA, so the three genders thing not only doesn't work out phenotypically, it provides no way for the cogenitors to pass on their DNA, so there's no way they could have really evolved. Seemed to me like a contrivance to make it so there was only one cogenitor on the ship. "If you can't think of a good reason, think of a good excuse, reason be damned" attitude. Then again, this is Star Trek, so I can forgive this one.
  10. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

    May 30, 2001
    My first for the season.
    And most likely the best Enterprise episode so far.
    From B&B... :eek:
  11. Vulcan

    Vulcan Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 30, 2003
    Story line was pretty good but a little boring at times. Nice to have a change where there's frienly people with advanced systems. Hope Reed got a good look at the photonic weapons so Ent. Could have some. ;)
  12. Old Trek Guy

    Old Trek Guy Commodore Commodore

    Jun 9, 2001
    I'll give it an A-.
    And now for a little rant... Saw the Borg episode trailer. Looks like a typical Borg episode. :p
  13. nealish116

    nealish116 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 26, 2001

    One of the very few episodes of Enterprise that made me think. Shocking!
  14. Mott the barber

    Mott the barber Commodore Commodore

    Jun 26, 2001
    A+ for sure. One of the best episodes of Trek in years...
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Though a lot of fans think Archer and crew shouldn't be judging alien races based on their own human values, I do think that any sentient being should have certain basic (dare I say inalienable) rights, like the right of self-determination. At least that right should be the hallmark of any truly advanced or enlightened culture. So I respectfully disagree--I believe Archer does have the right to judge alien races based on certain "human" moral value systems (like those against slavery) that could be considered intrinsic or universal. While even that "intrinsicness" of certain rights may be a human judgment, it also will become a standard of the Federation (and perhaps one reason behind the founding of a federation of planets that demands adherence to certain moral and ethical values to gain admittance).

    However, that does not mean Archer has the right to interfere in another culture and force those values on them. Only that he has the right (or Starfleet has the right) to base any future contact and exchange with that culture on the way that culture treats all its citizens (as happens between cultures on Earth today).

    I give this episode an "A." It's the first Enterprise episode that really left me thinking after it was over, and the first that took the classic Trek stance of presenting a complex issue that has no easy resolution, *and* resisted throwing out a simplistic solution. I also like the fact that Archer (who, during his rant at Tucker, was no doubt was expressing his own sense of guilt at the bad example he has set) was obviously affected by his "rock and a hard place" decision. As David Gerrold once said, real drama forces the hero to make a decision, an important decision. And the best drama often revolves around a no-win decision, where the hero loses either way, and has to live with the consequences--in Archer's case the choice between potentially destroying a first contact and engendering the emnity of an alien race, or returning the asylum-seeking congenitor to what amounts to a situation morally unacceptable to humans--slavery.

    If only every Enterprise episode could be this good.

  16. MPH

    MPH Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 15, 2001
    United Kingdom of Great Britain
    Ill give this a D

    Theres nothing here I haven't seen before.
  17. spocklives

    spocklives Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 30, 2003
    Six's shoulder

    Indeed, nothing new....but even rehashes have to be done efficiantlly, and this was superb....especially the ending :eek:
  18. AlphaMan

    AlphaMan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Aug 26, 2001
    Doom 2099
    you know what... for the first time ever, I feel compelled to rewatch Enterprise tonight. Anyone else?

    I think I'll bump up my original B- to a B+... :D
  19. Top41

    Top41 Vice Admiral Moderator

    Dec 6, 2001
    I'm Here For The Sun

    Best episode this season, with lots of great character stuff going on. As always, Trip was guided by his heart, and what he did made sense from a humane standpoint. While I saw Archer's side of the argument, I had a slight problem with it because it was coming from him, and Archer may have done the same thing. But at least he admitted he didn't know what he'd do, and had he acted as Trip did, with the same consequences, he likely would have been equally as hard on himself, if not more so.

    I didn't predict either the suicide or that it wouldn't come to fighting, because of Archer's comment in the teaser (finally meeting people they don't exhange weapon fire with. Kudos for that.

    The Archer and alien leader B-story was a bit dull, but it did serve a purpose.

    All in all, fantastic episode. :D
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Surprisingly good episode. Grade A.

    The promo made it look like an immature sex romp.

    Oh, and Billingsley's (sp?) "I've got pictures!" line was hilarious. Great execution.

    Good episode all around. My only real problems were as follows (and these are mostly nitpicks):

    How come this way-too-human looking race has never been seen before in Trek? I know they said they don't leave too far from home often, but really.

    Secondly, I wasn't quite sure if the ending message of the show hit the right note. Yes, Trip went too far and yes, I was very impressed by seeing Archer play an emotional scene without going overboard, but it still seemed a little wrong to claim that Trip was totally wrong.

    It was a complicated issue without a black-and-white result.
    That's the type of moral issue we haven't seen on Trek in a long, long time.