Grade "Cogenitor"
- Thread starter T'Bonz
- Start date
Here Here! I gave it a D+. There was only two reasons that this episode didn't get an F. They were the last scene, with Archer and Tucker after the Cogenitor commits suicide, and the special effects when Archer and the alien captain are flying through the sun-thing.
Did they delete a couple scenes because Reed's romance seemed a little short. The two had two scenes and then she was asking him to bed. And his "I'll Show You Mine" line was just stupid and pointless.
This episode make ANIS look like Shakespeare.
Posted by Crosis:
You know, I'm disappointed in myself.
I was going to watch the episode tonight. It seemed like it'd be nice to watch my first ENT episode in months, a respite from final exams this week.
But then I read the synopsis, and I watched the trailer, and I thought "God. more dullery. No thanks." And shame shame that I seem to be wrong!
I will have to check this one out in the reruns. Now if ONLY they weren't doing the frigginnext week. Thankfully, I'll be driving home Wednsday, and will not get even the slightest chance to see that dreck
Do you suppose if we send in enough letters offering our support for THIS type of episode, the folk at Paramount will finally listen?
Actually, I think they've already listened and told B&B to either get their act together or get off the lot; however, since that abortion called "Regeneration" is already in the can and hyped out the wazoo, they may have no choice but to air it. Damn tragedy if you ask me, and I think B&B are going to get more flak over "Regeneration" than the Dixie Chicks have gotten over Natalie Maines' little faux pas in England, but I think the show will pull through if B&B start producing more "Cogenitor"-caliber episodes.
Another thing that I think helped make "Cogenitor" a better episode than most of B&B's stuff was the fact that Levar Burton was directing it. He seems to have a better grasp of the underlying human rights and slavery issues that were present in the story, and it is my opinion that he most likely he agreed to direct the episode on his terms, meaning that he probably did some minor tweaking of the script here and there. Not enough to get credit for it, mind you, but enough so that it came out much better than standard B&B dreck.
I gave this one an A-.
There were some draggy bits in the middle, but for the most part it moved to an inevitable and horrible conclusion. There's a difference between an inevitable ending and a predictable one. Equally likely given Trek's history would have been an ending where Archer gets a message that the Engineer and his wife have grudgingly agreed to continue the Congenitor's education--but that would have been nice easy, safe--and predictable.
The ending we did get was powerful because it contrasted with the lightness of the rest of the episode--everyone's getting along famously right up to the point where the Cogenitor sneaks back to Enterprise on it's own. From that point on tragedy, guilt, remorse, moral ambiguity--those were the only appropriate resolutions. Bravo to Berman and Braga for following through.
I especially liked that Trip brought about this tragedy by exercising the very qualities that we most admire him for: impulsiveness, curiosity, compassion, moral outrage, kindness, surety in his moral compass. But they backfire on him because his arrogant naivete leads him to act before he will even consider the possibilites of alternative moral codes.
I liked also that Archer was caught up short; that he had to recognize that Trip *was* following his example.
The last five minutes *made* this episode.
Bucky
There were some draggy bits in the middle, but for the most part it moved to an inevitable and horrible conclusion. There's a difference between an inevitable ending and a predictable one. Equally likely given Trek's history would have been an ending where Archer gets a message that the Engineer and his wife have grudgingly agreed to continue the Congenitor's education--but that would have been nice easy, safe--and predictable.
The ending we did get was powerful because it contrasted with the lightness of the rest of the episode--everyone's getting along famously right up to the point where the Cogenitor sneaks back to Enterprise on it's own. From that point on tragedy, guilt, remorse, moral ambiguity--those were the only appropriate resolutions. Bravo to Berman and Braga for following through.
I especially liked that Trip brought about this tragedy by exercising the very qualities that we most admire him for: impulsiveness, curiosity, compassion, moral outrage, kindness, surety in his moral compass. But they backfire on him because his arrogant naivete leads him to act before he will even consider the possibilites of alternative moral codes.
I liked also that Archer was caught up short; that he had to recognize that Trip *was* following his example.
The last five minutes *made* this episode.
Bucky
C
The idea was good, the delivery was bad. the Reed story just went into the air wtf? archer chewed & chewed and there was something about the Trip/Cogenitor interaction that seemed rushed & forced
but I feel sorry for Trip, the poor sweetheart of a fella
I know he's crushed but hey I couldnt blame the s/he for rather dying than be treated like so. and Archer said he hoped Trip learned from this - I hope not! that would be prettt dull. I'd prefer Trip to still get into 'trouble' now & then (even after him looking back on his incident with the cogenitor) cuz it'd make him more interesing imo (not that he has any trouble being interesting already 
)
OKay next episode & a few more after Trip better not be all hunky-dory like nothing happened, there should still be tension there!
And they should have done something with the Cogenitor's name. he shoulda told him/her to think of a new name, a name all to theirself instead of just leaving it at Charles.
blegh
The idea was good, the delivery was bad. the Reed story just went into the air wtf? archer chewed & chewed and there was something about the Trip/Cogenitor interaction that seemed rushed & forced
but I feel sorry for Trip, the poor sweetheart of a fella
I know he's crushed but hey I couldnt blame the s/he for rather dying than be treated like so. and Archer said he hoped Trip learned from this - I hope not! that would be prettt dull. I'd prefer Trip to still get into 'trouble' now & then (even after him looking back on his incident with the cogenitor) cuz it'd make him more interesing imo (not that he has any trouble being interesting already ) OKay next episode & a few more after Trip better not be all hunky-dory like nothing happened, there should still be tension there!
And they should have done something with the Cogenitor's name. he shoulda told him/her to think of a new name, a name all to theirself instead of just leaving it at Charles.
blegh
I gave it an A-, with the assumption that the repercussions won't be soon forgotten (But I'm afraid I may be overly optimistic there). One of the best ENT episodes to date, IMO. Had they left out the Reed subplot and actually gave Hoshi and Travis something to do, I may have given it an A.
What possible use were Hoshi and Travis to that storyline?
Not every great episode has to feature all of the cast prominently. DS9's "Duet" immediately pops to mind.
-Shimmer-
Not every great episode has to feature all of the cast prominently. DS9's "Duet" immediately pops to mind.
-Shimmer-
G
Guest
Guest
This one gets an A from me.
-Very thought-provoking main storyline, more so than I thought it would be. A little hard to believe that anyone with no formal education would learn as fast as "Charles" did, but excusable.
-OOO, is Trip going to be in the doghouse for a while or what?? That was the most impassioned fit I've ever seen from Archer! Though the guy who helped all those Suliban detainees escape is the LAST person to be talking about interference and its consequences...
You have to feel for Trip. He's trying to do what really is the right thing, even if he didn't think it through. (Sorry, even after studying all that anthropology, I can still take cultural relativism only so far when it comes to mistreatment of people...and I think Trip would agree.)
-Poor goofy, awkward, strangely charming Reed. Okay, they left it unrevealed whether he actually slept with this woman, but somehow I doubt it. He was just working himself up to the point of talking to her about something other than food and weapons, and she suddenly pulls way ahead
and startles the hell out of him. Reed chasing a woman is rather like a dog chasing a car - he wouldn't know what to do with it if he actually caught it....(and for some reason I find this very endearing.)
-Very thought-provoking main storyline, more so than I thought it would be. A little hard to believe that anyone with no formal education would learn as fast as "Charles" did, but excusable.
-OOO, is Trip going to be in the doghouse for a while or what?? That was the most impassioned fit I've ever seen from Archer! Though the guy who helped all those Suliban detainees escape is the LAST person to be talking about interference and its consequences...
You have to feel for Trip. He's trying to do what really is the right thing, even if he didn't think it through. (Sorry, even after studying all that anthropology, I can still take cultural relativism only so far when it comes to mistreatment of people...and I think Trip would agree.)
-Poor goofy, awkward, strangely charming Reed. Okay, they left it unrevealed whether he actually slept with this woman, but somehow I doubt it. He was just working himself up to the point of talking to her about something other than food and weapons, and she suddenly pulls way ahead
and startles the hell out of him. Reed chasing a woman is rather like a dog chasing a car - he wouldn't know what to do with it if he actually caught it....(and for some reason I find this very endearing.)
Posted by T'Bonz:
D-
Boy did this suck.
Oh, let's save the poor oppressed Photonics....er...oops, Cogenitors.
Why does Archer, Trip or whomever (usually it's Archer) keep judging other cultures on human values? And who couldn't predict that trouble would follow.
Too reminiscent of VOY and the Photonic rights crap and TNG'S "Outcast"
But even worse than that, was Archer's utter hypocrisy in his blistering speech to Trip at the end. Who the fuck is HE to lecture Trip? He sticks his big nose into everyone's business, often with bad consequences. Jeez.
And why doesn't anyone EVER listen to T'Pol, who is so often right?
Only thing that kept this from an "F" for me was the twist in the ending, I wasn't expecting that.
Yuck.
Bring on the Borg...oh joy. I so feel like I'm watching Voyager. This week, Photonic rights and the EMH, next week, see Janeway...er Archer...deal with the big, bad Borg.
And this is a PREQUEL to TOS? I don't THINK SO.
While I agree with your assessment as the story unfolded, I disagree once we see the end. This was an episode geared to the establishment of the prime directive. I wasn't expecting that.
I disagree with it being reminiscent of the "Outcast". The premise was quite different as well as the consequences at the end.
The premise itself, was forced. As others pointed out, such a valuable and limited race as the cogenitor, you'd think they'd be a bit more revered amongst their people. This itself brings the grade down.
For help establishing the prime directive though, this episode gets an B+.
I can't understand why some people feel that the Reed subplot was unfinished. I thought it was clearly implied that he was about to get lucky! What more did you want? A shot of them in bed or a kiss at the airlock at the end?
Exactly. I like to have some things left to the imagination. I'm pretty sure Reed did get some!!
Off topic, I love your avatar, Cleopatra! From one of my favorite DS9 episodes...
Well there are some things I do want to see potrayed on screen, like how the Hell Reed came to save Archer in "Judgement," but the romance in "Cogenitor" was pretty straightforward and spoke for itself.
No, they don't have to feature every cast member (as "Duet" clearly shows). I just thought it would be better to give them something to do instead of having what I considered an inane subplot featuring Reed. IMO, that subplot detracted from an otherwise fine episode.
I didn't fall asleep.I'm usually out like a light before the third half. Gotta give it an A.
Cogenitor felt like Trek.It felt like good Trek.I've haven't had good Trek in a long time.
I hope this wasn't an anomaly. Let's keep raising the bar.
Finally-Drama,Action,and Consequences.Thank Goodness!
Cogenitor felt like Trek.It felt like good Trek.I've haven't had good Trek in a long time.
I hope this wasn't an anomaly. Let's keep raising the bar.
Finally-Drama,Action,and Consequences.Thank Goodness!
^^^ "third half???" 
Posted by ShimmeringNebula:
Am I allowed to gloat, now that everyone is in love with "Cogenitor"?
Told you it wouldn't be the travesty that some made it out to be... I'm always happy when we get a good episode.
-Shimmer-
What do you have to gloat about? Let's take a look at this. There are 26 episodes scheduled for this season. About half written by the Hack Bros. We have about 4 average to good episodes this year out of 26. Seems to me you have absolutely nothing to gloat about.
Posted by PvtKtara:
Posted by Crosis:
You know, I'm disappointed in myself.
I was going to watch the episode tonight. It seemed like it'd be nice to watch my first ENT episode in months, a respite from final exams this week.
But then I read the synopsis, and I watched the trailer, and I thought "God. more dullery. No thanks." And shame shame that I seem to be wrong!
I will have to check this one out in the reruns. Now if ONLY they weren't doing the friggin
Do you suppose if we send in enough letters offering our support for THIS type of episode, the folk at Paramount will finally listen?
Actually, I think they've already listened and told B&B to either get their act together or get off the lot; however, since that abortion called "Regeneration" is already in the can and hyped out the wazoo, they may have no choice but to air it. Damn tragedy if you ask me, and I think B&B are going to get more flak over "Regeneration" than the Dixie Chicks have gotten over Natalie Maines' little faux pas in England, but I think the show will pull through if B&B start producing more "Cogenitor"-caliber episodes.
Another thing that I think helped make "Cogenitor" a better episode than most of B&B's stuff was the fact that Levar Burton was directing it. He seems to have a better grasp of the underlying human rights and slavery issues that were present in the story, and it is my opinion that he most likely he agreed to direct the episode on his terms, meaning that he probably did some minor tweaking of the script here and there. Not enough to get credit for it, mind you, but enough so that it came out much better than standard B&B dreck.
I agree, the fact that they are airing Regeneration is not good. Its been made and been promoted and going to run. But, in my opinion this will one of the biggest mistakes to date made by the Hack Bros.
G
Guest
Guest
Well I gave it a "B" as in above average. I hate to give out "A's" like they are candy and then get a really great ep. and have to associate it with this. Maybe so far its an "A" but I don't see why.
Hmmm, I feel like the odd man out... I only gave it a B- this time, and everyone seems to have loved it...? Odd, cuz that's usually me!
Anyways, I obviously liked it, but I found my attention wandering sometimes, and I pretty much had the show figured out from the start, which again is a bit unusual. I guess it was playing more like the other dramas that I watched, so I saw the patterns. Anyway, I liked it, but it's not one of my favourites. I am looking forward to seeing how things go with Trip and Archer in the next eps- will they carry on with the strained relations, or will it be as if nothing happened, and they're all honkey dorey again... I hope they work through it more slowly.
Anyways, I obviously liked it, but I found my attention wandering sometimes, and I pretty much had the show figured out from the start, which again is a bit unusual. I guess it was playing more like the other dramas that I watched, so I saw the patterns. Anyway, I liked it, but it's not one of my favourites. I am looking forward to seeing how things go with Trip and Archer in the next eps- will they carry on with the strained relations, or will it be as if nothing happened, and they're all honkey dorey again... I hope they work through it more slowly.
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