Grade "Cogenitor"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by T'Bonz, May 1, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A+

    Based on some things I've written and seen T'Bonz respond to, I've no reason to believe the Rihannsu will like what I have to say. It's therefore no surprise that we don't see eye to eye on this episode.

    I once said in another forum that if I can predict the ending of the episode, it's just no fun to watch a show. I saw the suicide coming, and in this one instance at least, I've been proven wrong. I mostly didn't think they'd kill the Cogenitor off. I was surprised, both pleasantly and unpleasantly so.

    This was an amazing story, superbly written and well-acted. I hope there will be repercussions shown at in a later episode.
     
  2. KIRK1ADM

    KIRK1ADM Admiral Admiral

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    I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. Mostly because the Hacks actually demonstrated a modest amount of talent. I wonder if they really wrote the episode themselves or not. Just kidding of course.

    Overall I gave the episode a B. First off I really enjoyed the episode. I liked how the cogenitor's demonstrated the prime directive when towards the end of the episode they didn't want to give Archer information about their ships. Of course telling Archer they would soon develop something similar.

    The dynamic that took place between this new race and Starfleet was great. I enjoyed seeing the consequences of poor decisions made by Trip.

    I think Archer's sudden embrace of non interference was a bit too quick. To me although I completely agree with him and chewing Trip out for interfering, I couldn't help but think what a darn hypocrite. How many times over the past two seasons have seen Archer stick his nose into things where it didn't belong?

    The biggest flaw that I came away with in this episode was the whole sex thing. I really don't feel that B&B dealt with this one well. First off we got off an episode not too long ago where the crew was possessed and asking almost the same things as these cogenitors were when propositioning Reed. I still feel like it is more of a juvenile attempt on B&B's part. Still kind of that Beavis and Butthead attitude from them.

    But, overall, a good episode. Very above average. It would sure be nice if they can keep this up for a while.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A.
    Loved it.
    I never saw Outcast- I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
    I did not think the suicide was predictable, but then again, I am a stoner. You guys are WAY smarter than me! I had never heard the word prurience before- you've sent me running for the dictionary.
    When Archer said it was dead I thought they killed it! Then when they said suicide I realized that made perfect sense.
    I didn't know if it had stayed aboard Enterprise or gone back!
    I was SO glad COG. wasn't the cheesy sex romp the teasers mislead us to believe.
    When I saw the trailers for next week, I thought you guys ( my people!)would be mad! You guys DON'T want Borg on Enterprise, right?
     
  4. strikefalcon

    strikefalcon Commodore Commodore

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    ^^^ Yes, most of us don't want the Borg on ENT. But we let off our steam a month ago. Now we're just calmly awaiting the train wreck to occur.
     
  5. mythme

    mythme Commodore Commodore

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    Finally...this episode felt like Trek. Man, I almost forgot what that special satisfying feeling felt like. Intriquing, consequential, well-paced. A solid A. For me the best in the series so far.
     
  6. watermelony2k

    watermelony2k Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Heh, I wonder if the BBS ENT members that did not watch Enterprise because "They hated OutPost" are reading this thread..
     
  7. KIRK1ADM

    KIRK1ADM Admiral Admiral

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    Its sad that not only did we have to wait almost a full season for a great episode that it has to be followed up by a really dumb idea like the Borg.

    Even the preview makes me sick. Havin the whole Resistance if Futile line in the preview like that.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    B+

    Pretty good plot. I think they could have shown Archer having to use his flying skills a little more then once to make up for the lack of action during the rest of the episode. However, the drama portrayed in this episode more then makes up for the lack of action and the ending was just spectacular. It brought a tear to my eye when Archer tells Trip the Cogenitor has committed suicide.

    Even with all the high points this episode still has its flaws. Such as there are several episode in Star Trek that are rather similar to this one and the obvious hypocrisy that Archer was spewing to Trip. It really hurts his argument when he barely even notes that he has done the same thing more then once.

    One last thing, is it just me or was anyone else wondering what the Cogenitor's sexual organs looked like?
     
  9. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    WOW

    A

    Best episode of Trek since Tacking into the Wind.

    And Best social Trek since Chimera.

    Very, very nice.
     
  10. its_a_clock

    its_a_clock Commodore Commodore

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    B+

    This episode was a suprise for me, although it was riddled with inconsistantcies in quality. ENT usually has amazing production values: lighting and makeup are usually top-notch, but I've noticed a drop in these lately ... but if they replace good prod. with good writing, i'll be happy. I would have given it a much lower rating if not for the ending, and the addition of a great guest star, who unfortunatly was wasted in a B-plot that went nowhere. The addition of the scene with Trip and the cog playing GO were completely unexpected for me, and it gave me something in common with the character.

    This episode started out smacking of Voyagerisms: Exploring some celestial body, meeting an AotW with bad makeup, offering an exchange of pleasantries and deciding to have a little visit -- here's where usually Janeway is duped by the handsome AotW Captian into some sinister plot; instead we get an extremly uninteresting and tedious exploration of the AotW Captain and Archer's relationship and the exploration of the 'core' of something ... was it a red gas giant? The dialogue here was trite.

    The main story was the typical (for B&B and ENT) TNG rehash, but a really great interpretation. We had some decent acting, for a couple of seconds there, I thought maybe Bakula was channeling Avery Brooks! I was digging the Reed/female AotW 'exploration' of each other, but suddenly that entire plotline was completly abandoned. The scenes involving Archer/Trip were very good, bordering great. The second confrontation was a little over the top, and Trineer was a little complacent during Archer's bitch-outs. The part where Trip lowers his head while being reprimanded was outright laughable ... he should have told Archer to go to hell!

    The ending was, for me, unexpected: I thought this was going to end like a Voyager episode, but it had a little twist that made the whole endeavor worth my time.

    I guess B&B actually value their jobs. They were really trying to outdo themselves here, and their efforts paid off. This is one of the best episodes that they've done in a long time.

    I believe he stopped watching a few episodes back. ;)

    EDIT: Whoops, I hit 'minus' instead of 'plus.' B+ :)
     
  11. Sxottlan

    Sxottlan Commodore Commodore

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    A- or a low **** out of ****

    Some thoughts:

    -This is what I get for skimming early review threads. I wouldn't have seen the suicide ending coming except that someone made a point of stating that fact in a separate sentence as I was trying not to read anything specific and of course my eyes fall on that one sentence. Oh well, my own problem I suppose. Spoilers = Bad.

    -Otherwise, an excellent episode. None of those aliens who have ever been shown the wonderful ways of us wacky humans and was then denied in previous series ever then killed themselves before. There is a building sense of tragedy coming through the episode. The aliens are genuinely nice this week, adding to the horrible feeling that it's not going to end well.

    -The "hypocricy" of Archer in a way makes the end scene all the more interesting because now he sees it in someone else and realizes maybe he shouldn't do it anymore. Yes, Archer has been written more like Janeway: meddling in alien affairs one week and not the next, but here's hoping that may change after this episode. If he doesn't, then this episode will hurt all the more for it.

    -Great performances all around.

    -Great visual effects. I liked how the Vissian ship looked like a blimp. The controls on the pod were from the Delta Flyer.

    -Nit #1: Reed has never heard of photonic torpedos, though he encountered them in last seasons' Sleeping Dogs. But yeah, that episode was boring enough maybe he forgot. ;)

    -Nit #2: The editing felt a bit choppy. One scene has Trip giving the cogenitor the padd, cut to Archer in the pod and back to Trip with the cogenitor reading a book. Then Trip says he's expected in Astrometrics when before he was going to the Galley. A source of suspense (Trip and the cogenitor being discovered) is only alluded to and Reed's sub-plot is completely dropped. Some of the editing was inspired and some other was a bit head-scratching.

    -Movie titles on Trip's screen included:
    Dixon Hill and the Black Orchid
    Bride of Chaotica!
    Love's Lovely Love
    (my personal favorite)
    It Came from Beneath the Refridgerator
    Escape from Dodge City
    Planet of the Zombies


    Looks like the NX-01's library is filled with B-movies. I'm sure someone will have a full list up soon. :D
     
  12. strikefalcon

    strikefalcon Commodore Commodore

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    "Looks like the NX-01's library is filled with B-movies. I'm sure someone will have a full list up soon."

    They probably save $$$ on royalties by only showing old B movies... It'd be nice to see 'em watching "Independence Day" sometime... ;)
     
  13. PvtKtara

    PvtKtara Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Solid B. Some of the stuff with the Cogenitor reminded me a bit of that TNG eppie with the J'naii, but overall it was very good.

    Call me a cynic, but I think that B&B has been told to get their frelling dren together or get the frell off the lot. :)
     
  14. Sxottlan

    Sxottlan Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I'm sure most of those are completely made up, but I'm going to assume you were joking and knew that ;).

    They did have Day the Earth Stood Still listed on the screen and they did show a shot from the movie (I think that's what that was). I don't know how much money they have to spend to mention a film title or show a clip, like they did with For Whom the Bell Tolls and Frankenstein and tonight's episode.
     
  15. Archer4Trip

    Archer4Trip Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A-

    A: High on the Trip-meter, serious Trip/Archer conflict, Trip's impulsiveness has real repercussions... (a tip to all the fans - these are the exact things we've been asking for over the last year in Trip threads - ask and you may well receive. Thanks, PTB!).

    MINUS? For the utter lack of motivation for Trip to do what he did, not his impulsiveness, but why help out, why "free the oppressed", why *reading*? It was not explained and could have been, quicklly and easily. Minus for the inane Archer/G'Kar piloting scenes and for Reed's schoolboy antics, amusing as they may be.
     
  16. espeorboy

    espeorboy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    A! It was PACKED! full of good episodes in one package :) I was very surprised and I enjoyed every minute of it. Now I saw this, I know what B&B can do :) So I will expect more!! The reason why I didn't give A+ is just because of this. I don't want to think that's all what they can do, they should try more and make the ENT better!

    And I saw the Regeneration teaser... I kinda felt the borg wasn't really scary this time. maybe they don't come with the cube of the queen... I am really hoping the next episode will be as good as this one, or MORE! :o
     
  17. strikefalcon

    strikefalcon Commodore Commodore

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    ^^^ The Borg haven't been scary for a long time...
     
  18. Crosis

    Crosis Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    You know, I'm disappointed in myself.
    I was going to watch the episode tonight. It seemed like it'd be nnice to watch my first ENT episode in months, a respite from final exams this week.
    But then I read the synopsis, and I watched the trailer, and I thought "God. more dullery. No thanks." And shame shame that I seem to be wrong!
    I will have to check this one out in the reruns. Now if ONLY they weren't doing the friggin :borg: next week. Thankfully, I'll be driving home Wednsday, and will not get even the slightest chance to see that dreck :evil:
    Do you suppose if we send in enough letters offering our support for THIS type of episode, the folk at Paramount will finally listen?
     
  19. espeorboy

    espeorboy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It was like .. when I was ...18? 19? or even before I think. I couldn't sleep at night, I turned on the TV, there is a foregin sci-fi movie called "StarTrek Next Generation" (suta-torekku nekusuto jenere-shon) I was like, "hmmmm?" and that was like Q episode with the borg. I couldn't sleep after I saw it because of the face of the borg drone. "why American people makes such a scary stuff!!!" that was my very first trek experience. muahahah

    10 years later, come to think of it, I was so retarded and naive Japanese at that time... .. .. .. ..


    :borg:
     
  20. digger

    digger Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I have't been one of the ones that's been bashing Enterprise, but I do see why some people have problems with it. It had such potential with Broken Bow, one of the best first episodes of any series, not just Sci-Fi or Star Trek. Then it went downhill from there; not bad, IMO, just never got back to the peak of Broken Bow, until last night. Probably the best episode of the series so far, perhaps just behind Broken Bow.