Grade "Cogenitor"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by T'Boo, May 1, 2003.

  1. PheonixRising

    PheonixRising Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Aug 10, 2001
    Philadelphia, PA
    B -

    A pretty good episode. I would have given it a B if it wasn't for Archer's sudden belief in non-interference with other cultures. He sticks his nose in everyone else's business until his best friend and chief engineer behaves just as stupidly as he has in the past.

    Trip was wrong and Archer was right to chastise him, but Archer's sudden realization that he shouldn't interfere with other cultures seems convenient for the script. It reminded me of a Voy episode where Janeway breaks the Prime Directive and then chastises Paris next week for doing the same thing.
  2. flcat

    flcat Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 9, 2003
    South Florida
    C - .Very pretentious. I thought the whole premise was rather absurd. Why would such an important part of the child bearing equation to be treated like a third class citizen, especially when they are so few in number? Since they are so highly sought after, I would think they would be celebrated and cherished.

    Stupid premise aside, who is Archer to be giving Trip a lecture? That is really why the captain of a ship can't be buddy buddy with his crew -- cuz when he has to bust an @$$, it doesn't ring true.
  3. aksarBen

    aksarBen Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 31, 2002
    Omaha, Nebraska, USA

    Excellent episode. Well-written (by B&B of all people :eek: ) and complimented by strong performances (especially by Trineer).

    After a really crappy succession of episodes, it's nice to see Enterprise punch out three strong episodes in a row (Horizon, The Breach and Cogenitor)

    Unfortunately, Regeneration looks horrid :(
  4. Garibaldi O'brien

    Garibaldi O'brien Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 1, 2001
    FL, USA

    Archer was a bit out a character at the end. In a good way!

    I would have given it an A+, had the borg trailer not been attached. I'd rather have a *gagh!* reset button than the borg.
  5. Wolf2581

    Wolf2581 Commodore Commodore

    May 21, 2001
    Joliet, Illinois, USA
    Good humor, a solid plot, fantastic lighting and special effects, and Andreas Katsulas give this one an A-.
  6. jethrobodine

    jethrobodine Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 18, 2003
    Springfield, America
    For the first 55 min, it was a c+ at best. The last 5 min were A++. The Archer speech was a tad :p hypocritical, but a very powerful scene. I wonder if this is an incident that will give old Johnny a bit of an edge, or will it be business as usual the next time?

    I'm still in shock that B & B scribed that last scene :eek:
  7. T'Boo

    T'Boo Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

    Apr 1, 2000
    T'Bonz - Across the Neutral Zone

    Boy did this suck.

    Oh, let's save the poor oppressed, Cogenitors.

    Why does Archer, Trip or whomever (usually it's Archer) keep judging other cultures on human values? And who couldn't predict that trouble would follow.

    Too reminiscent of VOY and the Photonic rights crap and TNG'S "Outcast"

    But even worse than that, was Archer's utter hypocrisy in his blistering speech to Trip at the end. Who the fuck is HE to lecture Trip? He sticks his big nose into everyone's business, often with bad consequences. Jeez.

    And why doesn't anyone EVER listen to T'Pol, who is so often right? :(

    Only thing that kept this from an "F" for me was the twist in the ending, I wasn't expecting that.


    Bring on the Borg...oh joy. I so feel like I'm watching Voyager. This week, Photonic rights and the EMH, next week, see with the big, bad Borg.

    And this is a PREQUEL to TOS? I don't THINK SO. :(
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I give this one an A! Normally I see things coming in the episodes but I have to admit the suicide ending surprised me! I just hope the tension between Archer and Trip carries forward for a while.
  9. static warp bubble

    static warp bubble Vice Admiral Admiral

    Feb 6, 2002
    Phlox hunched over saying "I've been infected" :rolleyes:

    Reminded me of the guy in that old commercial that said "I'm...having...chest...pains"

    Just from what I saw on the preview, it is obvious that this is a new timeline we're in because of FC...OBVIOUS!

    Oh, the grade for tonights...a B... Coulda been higher except for the hypocrisy of Archer (proof positive that one great episode can be diminished by a pattern of behavior from oh so many crappy ones)

    One more thing...just how much did Anthony Montgomery get paid to blink twice in this episode?
  10. blingawa

    blingawa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    It would have been much more interesting to see the cogenitor's life after Trip. Abuse? Nascent civil rights leader? Much meatier stuff, but it would defy the episodic format TPTB prefer.
  11. Lanzman

    Lanzman Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 26, 2002
    Someplace high and cold.

    Would have been A+ if it had been someone other than the overused Trip in the main plot.

    Would have been A- if not for Andreas Katsulas, who is an enthralling presence on screen.

    I did not see that ending coming. Archer's angry speech had an "about time" feeling to it, as if he himself has finally realized how much he's crossed the line on past occasions.

    Next week: The Borg. Let the suckitude commence.
  12. strikefalcon

    strikefalcon Commodore Commodore

    Sep 24, 2001
    White Bear Lake, MN, USA
    Big freakin' A here, and it's about time!!!

    Finally we get some DRAMA on his show! I saw the 'try to liberate the cogenitor' plot coming from a mile away, but the execution was fantastic! Connor Trineer just was stupendous in this show. It's almost as if he and John Billingsley are in direct competition for series' best performance!

    The Vessian? crew were very likeable and I sincerely hope we see them again. ESPECIALLY the Captain. Seeing him in Trek again reminds me of how much better "Nemesis" could have been if Tomalak had played a major role somehow. Something that I had wanted to see from the first rumors about the Romulans being involved.

    The ending was brilliant, all except for Archer's speech stretching out a bit too long. But I did get the sense that Archer was beating himself up a bit at the same time he was dressing down Trip. The ending especially gave me goosebumps, something I haven't felt since Deep Space Nine. I really hope that we this leave lasting impressions on Trip & Archer's relationship. Sadly I doubt that will happen with ENT's episodic format.

    Random thoughts:
    - Great FX all around.
    - The strato-pod was a great little craft. Nice design.
    - The Reed sub-plot was well performed and directly complimented the main story, the rest of the writing staff should take notes. No more random, disjointed B plots please!
    - YESSSSS! PORTHOS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
    - Yay! Not overly-sexual like the frickin' trailer suggested!
    - Eeeewwww! Borg!!!! Next Wednesday's gonna be painful, methinks....
  13. Mullek

    Mullek Commodore Commodore

    Aug 8, 2001
    Marietta, GA
    I'd give the ep an A-. Finally, some thought-provoking drama in Enterprise.
    Special effects were pretty good too.
  14. The Raven

    The Raven Commodore Commodore

    May 17, 2001
    berea, ohio, usa

    Mind be A- after some more thought.....
  15. Kanenas

    Kanenas Commodore Commodore

    Jun 2, 2002
    You are right about that. It did not come across as the big homosexual episode some others were drooling over. Perhaps cogenitors are redily created or limited. It might be that the cogenitor gender was more populous in their ancient times. Who knows? Its a hole you can drive a mack truck through. I attribute it as a PC flaw to an otherwise sound writing.

    Its a learning process on the role of a starfleet captain. He should have busted his rank, repremanded him, SOMETHING.
  16. Hegemon

    Hegemon Commodore Commodore

    Jul 12, 2001
    BC, Canada
    This is similair to the novel The Handmaid's Tale, in which there are only few women who can give birth and would move from family to family giving birth for husband-wife who would later raise the child. However, they're treated poorly because they're simply seen as to have no other purpose than to breed by the totalitarian government who has to force them to randomly breed because none of them would actually agree to it willingly. They're not allowed to read because knowledge and education can incide a desire to revolt against injustice for a better life.
  17. Garibaldi O'brien

    Garibaldi O'brien Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 1, 2001
    FL, USA
    I think "Alien Nation" handled the concept of a third "catylist" cogenitor/partner much more logically. They made them into an honored member of their religious caste. That made sense to me. Rare things are usually considered valuable, especially when it comes to fertility. 2000 years of fertility idols and all.

    How they came to be considered an underclass escapes me.

    EDIT: Hmmm.. the post above did give a good explanation, but it wasn't there! :D
  18. guyute03

    guyute03 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Feb 27, 2003
    I can't believe it, but I have to give tonight's ep a solid A. Truly excellent tonight.
  19. IJD GAF

    IJD GAF Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 26, 2002
    The suicide occured to me, but I thought "Trek? Nah, they're too goody goody; they'll play it safe".

    When it happened, I was in awe. This was one of the best commentaries Trek ever had. Hypocritical of Archer? That was kinda the point. He was seeing the flaws of his ways just as much as he was angry as Trip. Though it's not the most original of concepts, it's not something we've seen before ("The Outcast" is the only thing that comes remotely close). Considering the West's dealings with the Middle-East of late, this episode was as timely as it was possible.

    The highest grade available, A+. Points off only for Reed's subplot which vanished about halfway through without a trace. This is how to do a commentary.

    And yes T'Bonz, this is pre-TOS as it should be. We're seeing people making the mistakes that will lead to the prime directive (which, surprise surprise, is only a few years off). We're seeing the joys and perils of the journey as we rarely see on this show. Enterprise needs more of this, and fewer gimicks. Next week's better reek only of unoriginality. I'll still be pissed, but not as much as if they totally wreck everything we've seen before.
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest


    Really good episode.