General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I read the thing on the Limo plans about a month ago I think. Rather interesting, and not surprising that Vince ignores inconsistencies. Pretty much have come to understand that over the years.

Nash has been saying he wants one more match for quite some time now (I mentioned this after his first tweet about wanting to come back) and has put over Punk on Twitter several times. Nothing new.

The Hebner thing is

 

[Mr Silver]

Earl Hebner is a bit of a shit apparently. He was in on the Montreal Screwjob and also swore to Bret Hart that he wouldn't try and screw him (prior to the match in which Bret had suspicions that something screwy might happen), but was the first person to blitz out of the ring and leave the arena following the screwjob.

Earl (along with his twin brother Dave) was fired by WWE in 2005 after it emerged that they had been illegally selling WWE merchandise in a store that Earl partially owned. Still, 63 year old Earl propositioning strangers for oral sex is a new low.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah....he's developed a nasty reputation since the Montreal Screw Job (ironic considering that twitter post eh?) and Bret and Earl were really good friends when Earl lied to him about his knowledge. The Screwjob match is still surreal to watch for me, even given what we now know about it. It even looks like they almost botched the screw job!!!

 

[Shazam!]

WWE has attempted to turn John heel several times and it's back fired in their faces because of the fandom's divisiveness over him. I mean they even used the Rock to try and do this and it didn't happen. It's a phenom that is quite hard to explain really.

They have never tried to turn him heel. They were going for a 50/50 split with The Rock and were actually putting Cena over as the major face for the majority of that feud in order to try to turn some fans from Rock to Cena (The Rock actually held back during much of that feud as he would have eclipsed Cena. See also Cena calling The Rock on writing notes for promos on his wrist which The Rock has NEVER done save for this one angle which he did as a device to help put over Cena).

You may have read into certain angles which could have conceivably turned Cena heel but they have never started or ended any programme with a heel turn on the cards.

 

[blueziggy]

i think they really missed an opportunity after wrestlemania. i would have had the loss to the rock be crushing and totally killed cenas confidence. a prolonged losing streak would follow the next few months to the likes of brock lesner. then have him work his way back up, have the fans get behind him as he tries to recapture the championship. when he does, say at royal rumble, he says its great and everything but he still lost to rock at wrestlemania. with the rematch coming you can rehash the stone cold "i need to beat you rock" storyline. then go wherever you want after that. thats fantasy booking though.

as for punk attacking the rock, i think its a brilliant way to play off some real life heat that punk had for the rock. punks the champ and still gets passed over for the rock. people can get behind both of them since it really is a legitimate gripe.

we'll see. punk still is the best at what he does (to quote jericho) as either a heel or face. he could definitely pull off a tweener role for the next few months.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Having Cena down and out for that long won't sell t-shirts to the proles though.

I'll tell you what makes me laugh, when you see grown men and people who should be old enough to know better dressed in the full Cena gear in the crowd. Including headbands. I'm no Cena hater, but I do wonder about some marks.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Tout has to be about the dumbest segment ever. It irritates me more than the trending updates all night long. I think I'm going to back to not watching for a while again.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Tout is a potent reminder of what absolute fucking imbeciles and social spastics wrestling fans are. It's a shame to be associated with them.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Okay, so the second episode of the 3-hour RAW Supershow is in the books and I couldn't help but notice something was missing. Maybe it was the lack of misogynist phrases coming out of Jerry lawler's mouth for a change. Maybe it was Michael Cole not vomiting forth his corporate buzzwords "Smart, Sexy, Powerful". Maybe it was the fact that the only women seen onscreen in recent memory have been AJ, Stephanie McMahon, and a cameo from Divas Champion Layla.

Let me get this straight, we have enough time in the program to see Damien Sandow show a clip from last week and then beat down Brodus Clay for no logical reason, but to ignite a feud that no one with any standards will give two shits about. We have enough time to watch Daniel Bryan walk up to a door and decide not to open it not once, but twice. We have enough time to showcase the minor fire that started before the doors opened at the arena for several minutes... but we simply don't have enough time for a Divas match?

Even a brief, pointless scene to show us they're still employed by the company even if their not being used. I only just found out that WWE released Kharma...

I'm very critical of TNA's product, but even they managed to have a successful Women's division without fucking it up. WWE hasn't done that since Trish and Lita were trading the Women's title back and forth in 2004.

 

[Mr Silver]

^
Personally, I'd rather the Divas didn't appear than compete in two minute restrictive matches that serve no purpose other than to highlight the incompetence of WWE's road agents who have no interest in improving the division by laying out decent matches and accentuating the strengths of the weaker performers.

Since around 04/05, the hiring practises when it comes to Divas has involved underwear models, reality TV veterans and wannabe actresses - all with negligible wrestling experience. Furthermore, they've reported to FCW (and the previous farm territories) where they've been trained to work a basic WWE style - since they have no prior wrestling training, and they are then called up to the main roster where they are met with unenthusiastic road agents and a creative division that doesn't really give a shit about them unless they slightly let themselves go or dare to look like a real woman (Mickie James anyone?), in which case they are met with disgusting jibes.

To illustrate my point, here is a list of some of the past WWE Divas and their backgrounds:

Chyna: Former bodybuilder and fitness model, trained by Killer Kowalski.
Lita: Indie wrestler, trained by Dory Funk Jr.
Trish Stratus: Former fitness model, trained by Ron Hutchinson.
Ivory: Indie wrestler, trained by Mando Guerrero
Victoria: Former fitness model and bodybuilder, trained in several dev territories.
Molly Holly: Former power lifter and gymnast, trained by Dave Finlay and the WCW Power Plant.
Mickie James: Indie wrestler, trained by Dory Funk Jr.

See, the most acclaimed Divas of old all had athletic backgrounds and a decent amount of training before they even made it to the farm territories! Fortunately, with the recent hiring of Sara Del Rey and emerging talk of WWE looking for more physical female talent, it seems the Divas division may get a long awaited reboot.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Sorry, I guess I just have the impression that if TNA can do it well, then WWE can do it better. The Women's division is one of the few areas where that theory is proven incorrect.

 

[Mr Silver]

Sorry, I guess I just have the impression that if TNA can do it well, then WWE can do it better. The Women's division is one of the few areas where that theory is proven incorrect.

WWE could have the best women's wrestling in the world if they wanted to. They have the means, resources and the connections to do so (and in rapidly too), but they simply have no interest in pushing female wrestling as a dominant part of their product.

Would there be a market for it, if WWE were to allocate a two hour TV show solely for female wrestling each week, quadruple their female perfomers and book female PPV matches (particularly your feud-ending/Wrestlemania moment/long awaited encounter style matches) as being just as serious and intense as those of their male counterparts?

Perhaps not right away, given the familiarity of the WWE product and WWE's inability to stick with something with a lot of things unless they are a runaway success.

 

[Sheep]

Tout has to be about the dumbest segment ever. It irritates me more than the trending updates all night long. I think I'm going to back to not watching for a while again.

Haven't seen last night's Raw yet. Please tell me they didn't expand the Tout segments beyond the ~1 minute they devoted to it the past few weeks--even at that short length those things were appallingly awful.

 

[Mr Silver]

^ Well, one of the reasons WWE has added an extra hour to Raw is so they can expand their social networking media content. That includes things like Tout (which is appallingly awful like you say) and voting for matches via Twitter.

Interestingly enough, the choices given for the Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan match last night were a Street Fight a Falls Count Anywhere or a No Holds Barred match - which are all essentially the same thing. Naturally, it was done this way so they could both perform the same things that they had rehearsed with minimal alterations. It would be more beneficial for them to rehearse three very different matches in the week leading up to the event and not just on the day.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Admiral M you forgot how Kelly Kelly was hired...which if true is an amusing story. I believe it was Big Johnny who hired her while flipping through a modelling magazine, but the kicker is that he actually hired the wrong person, not who he was instructed to hire...if the story is true. I can't remember who told it, but I thought man he's an even bigger moron than I thought.

Booker T is the new Smackdown General Manager. I have to say, what I saw of AJ makes me think this will be a great move. Both of them interesting.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Booker T, Noice.

 

[Sheep]

Good choice on Booker T but I'm guessing this means he won't be on the Smackdown announce crew anymore? If so, that kind of sucks.

 

[Mr Silver]

^ They definitely need a colour guy to fill Booker's vacated spot. Sure, Cole fills that role somewhat on Smackdown, but it's not his style and he's so much better suited to play-by-play.

If they can keep him around, I could see Paul Heyman getting the gig.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Would Heyman tolerate Vince shouting in his ear piece though the entire show? I dunno. He did colour commentary with J.R. during the Alliance story line I believe.

I actually miss Jonathan Coachman. I on occasion when still awake listen to his ESPN radio show that he co-hosts. He's great.

 

[Mr Silver]

Would Heyman tolerate Vince shouting in his ear piece though the entire show? I dunno. He did colour commentary with J.R. during the Alliance story line I believe.

Yes he was the colour commentator from when Jerry Lawler briefly left up until near the end of the Alliance storyline.

In terms of the ear piece shouting thing, apparently the colour guys don't get it as much as the play-by-play guys. I assume you're aware of the talk about how Vince essentially uses Michael Cole as his mouthpiece, not only this but Cole is also the guy that the business team communicate most of their stuff to, or so it would seem, given that Cole spouts 95% of the social media nonsense.

Paul Heyman though would be perfect. WWE knows that he can get guys over and that he's very a much a businessman too (which Vince likes). He's also crisp and articulate in his delivery and has that kind of voice that one associates with a commentator. Furthermore, he's experienced having worked in commentary on numerous occasions in the past and is deeply skilled in playing a character - which WWE loves on their commentary teams. He's also more new school than old school (aka "not Southern" - which WWE has shown a disdain for on numerous occasions, just ask JR) and is very up to date with popular culture and the internet (which WWE has also taken a massive liking to in recent years)

Given Heyman's volatility and the fact that he could easily walk out on such a position with no problem, it stands to reason that Vince and the other Gorilla position occupants would be much more easygoing with him.