Yeah, that scene was confusing to me. So, was his name a result of what Bran did? Did he somehow interfere the flow of time to have him suffer a seizure?
Game Of Thrones Season 6 Discussion (Spoilers)
- Thread starter M.A.C.O.
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Hold the door. 
That's how understood that moment as well. I also think the only reason why Bran was able to manipulate the timeline was due to the desperate and traumatic situation of the "present" while within in proximity of Hodor. I would be surprised if Bran is able to do that again.
That does make me wonder, though. When Bran called out to Ned in the earlier vision, Ned clearly heard him, but the Three-Eyed Raven didn't react as if that moment had always happened.
It's also interesting that apparently the children of the forest created the White Walkers as a weapon in their war against the First Men. I wonder if that's from Martin's lore or something the show came up with itself. In the lore, the Others (which is what they're primarily referred to in the books) didn't appear until thousands of years after the war between the children and the First Men, leading to the Long Night which ended with the building of the Wall. I suppose the two versions can be reconciled as the White Walkers eventually betraying their creators and invading Westeros. I dunno.
It's also interesting that apparently the children of the forest created the White Walkers as a weapon in their war against the First Men. I wonder if that's from Martin's lore or something the show came up with itself. In the lore, the Others (which is what they're primarily referred to in the books) didn't appear until thousands of years after the war between the children and the First Men, leading to the Long Night which ended with the building of the Wall. I suppose the two versions can be reconciled as the White Walkers eventually betraying their creators and invading Westeros. I dunno.
Or it's a predestination paradox. Bran would change things in the past that ends up making the present exactly the way it is now.
And yes, the story behind Hodor's name came from GRRM. Watch minute 13 of this video for the proof. *mind blown*
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It seems in the short run that the plot having moved beyond the books has unshackled the series in a positive way. The plot and pacing seem to have picked up. If they can keep the quality up this might be a boon and it sounds like GRRM is still giving input. Plus as a non-book reader it's nice to not see tons of spoiler tagged posts and it's a bit of a surprise for everyone to see where they're going.
The problem as a book reader now is I have to avoid the internet post-US screening so I don't get spoiled by endless barrages of gifs, memes and theorizing posts popping up over Social Media et al. I'm now waking early before work on a Monday morning to watch the episode as soon as practicable so I can go about the day not fearful of spoilers.
First World Problems!!
Thank you Sky for putting the first airing on at 2am on a Monday
Though I found it to be well constructed episode overall the mysticism of the "Birth" of the Nights King in the books (or what is theorised to be his beginnings) is well out of sync with the show. The streamlined nature of the show works (sort of), but the more Shakespearean creation of the Others in the books has more resonance
Seeing the Others as "out of control" creations of The Children makes a sort of sense from the Book lore, but doesn't really match up with the historical timelines (Children get invaded and eventually go to war with the First Men circa 12,000 years prior, whilst The Long Night, where Children/Men battle the Others and create the wall happens 4,000 years later) - yet, myths, legends et al are typically only based on a kernel of truth, glorified and aggrandised over time, so I am happy to let it go. For now.
The only moment that didn't work for me was Leaf's "sacrifice" which came across as a trite Walking Dead style moment of shock that, given the confines and geometry of the tunnel, wasn't needed. She had one "bomb" left... throw it into the fray and watch them burn and carry on running. It's more the pity that she has been our "in" to The Children, and given their connection to the Others, Greenseers, The Raven and now Bran, seems daft to off her just for "thrills", when no doubt we will need another down the line.
What is difficult to grasp now is WHERE and HOW D&D are diverging from GRRM. Are the flows of the shows plot streamlines of his books or new creation, and if you don't like it NOW and it then turns up LATER in the books, how to reconcile or process it.
As a big fan of AFOC and a NOT a fan of ADWD I was sad to see the butchering of Dorne/Riverlands sections of the books, yet thrilled to see a lot, if not most, of the fat of the latter book left out. So I have both been frustrated and happy about changes seen in the show. But I knew what was D&D and what was GRRM. Not knowing now is a fascinating and weird headspace and will no doubt make reading the future books an interesting adventure.
And given this, I was so very happy to read the Hodor reveal was a GRRM plot point. Dovetailing his sacrifice for Bran whilst revealing his disability was created by him was emotionally very strong storytelling and felt like a GRRM moment, where death has a meaning. Something that is lost in the show at times.
Hugo -
First World Problems!!
Thank you Sky for putting the first airing on at 2am on a Monday
Though I found it to be well constructed episode overall the mysticism of the "Birth" of the Nights King in the books (or what is theorised to be his beginnings) is well out of sync with the show. The streamlined nature of the show works (sort of), but the more Shakespearean creation of the Others in the books has more resonance
Seeing the Others as "out of control" creations of The Children makes a sort of sense from the Book lore, but doesn't really match up with the historical timelines (Children get invaded and eventually go to war with the First Men circa 12,000 years prior, whilst The Long Night, where Children/Men battle the Others and create the wall happens 4,000 years later) - yet, myths, legends et al are typically only based on a kernel of truth, glorified and aggrandised over time, so I am happy to let it go. For now.
The only moment that didn't work for me was Leaf's "sacrifice" which came across as a trite Walking Dead style moment of shock that, given the confines and geometry of the tunnel, wasn't needed. She had one "bomb" left... throw it into the fray and watch them burn and carry on running. It's more the pity that she has been our "in" to The Children, and given their connection to the Others, Greenseers, The Raven and now Bran, seems daft to off her just for "thrills", when no doubt we will need another down the line.
What is difficult to grasp now is WHERE and HOW D&D are diverging from GRRM. Are the flows of the shows plot streamlines of his books or new creation, and if you don't like it NOW and it then turns up LATER in the books, how to reconcile or process it.
As a big fan of AFOC and a NOT a fan of ADWD I was sad to see the butchering of Dorne/Riverlands sections of the books, yet thrilled to see a lot, if not most, of the fat of the latter book left out. So I have both been frustrated and happy about changes seen in the show. But I knew what was D&D and what was GRRM. Not knowing now is a fascinating and weird headspace and will no doubt make reading the future books an interesting adventure.
And given this, I was so very happy to read the Hodor reveal was a GRRM plot point. Dovetailing his sacrifice for Bran whilst revealing his disability was created by him was emotionally very strong storytelling and felt like a GRRM moment, where death has a meaning. Something that is lost in the show at times.
Hugo -
Man - lots happened in this one last night. Lots to process.
The thing I find most intriguing is that Bran is now "marked" by the Night King. If he found him like that last night, he can find him again; I doubt it's a one-use thing. This means the only place Bran (and Mira) can go now is back to the Wall. All the humans have abandoned the Far North or have been converted into Walkers. Not entirely sure how Bran can achieve his full potential as the TEC's successor without the TreeNet for him to plug into. I don't think any Godswood tree will do, as they all seem to be passive observation nodes, rather than active plug-ins, but we know so little about them, the showrunners/GRRM may have additional "features" for them.
So, the Children made the Walkers and they later rebelled, eh? That's a little Doomsday Machine/NuBattlestar Galactica Cylon for my taste, particularly due to the inconsistency with the book timelines that others have mentioned here. Now I'm especially interested to see how GRRM's version syncs up with this. There has to be more to it - there always has been.
Sansa's finally spreading her wings and tapping into her inner power - I don't think I've EVER seen Littlefinger look so uncomfortable under interrogation by anyone. "What else do you think Ramsey did to me?" "If you didn't know about him, you're an idiot; if you did know, you're my enemy." Flawlessly logical and beautifully written. I was half expecting Sansa to order Brienne to fit Mr. Baelish with a new hat, and a clean pair of underwear!
I real shame how under-written Tyrion has become this season. His character seems to be meandering and has been the weakest of all the main characters in Meereen, IMO. Really hoping that Dany gets back soon so that we can get that whole thing underway. Although I'm assuming now that they're going to have to wait until Euron's Iron Fleet gets there. Looks like they're merging his character with the younger Victarian brother - wondering if they're going to reveal the Dragonbinder horn, or if they're going to do an Old Valyria side-story and have them quest it out on their way to Slaver's Bay. I don't know how they did it, but I'm actually kind of intrigued by the Ironborn story line now. What is Yara & Theon going to do now that they're in self-exile? Are they going to try to get to Dany ahead of Euron, or join forces with some other military in one of the upcoming battles?
SO loving the pacing of this season. It's going too fast now.
The thing I find most intriguing is that Bran is now "marked" by the Night King. If he found him like that last night, he can find him again; I doubt it's a one-use thing. This means the only place Bran (and Mira) can go now is back to the Wall. All the humans have abandoned the Far North or have been converted into Walkers. Not entirely sure how Bran can achieve his full potential as the TEC's successor without the TreeNet for him to plug into. I don't think any Godswood tree will do, as they all seem to be passive observation nodes, rather than active plug-ins, but we know so little about them, the showrunners/GRRM may have additional "features" for them.
So, the Children made the Walkers and they later rebelled, eh? That's a little Doomsday Machine/NuBattlestar Galactica Cylon for my taste, particularly due to the inconsistency with the book timelines that others have mentioned here. Now I'm especially interested to see how GRRM's version syncs up with this. There has to be more to it - there always has been.
Sansa's finally spreading her wings and tapping into her inner power - I don't think I've EVER seen Littlefinger look so uncomfortable under interrogation by anyone. "What else do you think Ramsey did to me?" "If you didn't know about him, you're an idiot; if you did know, you're my enemy." Flawlessly logical and beautifully written. I was half expecting Sansa to order Brienne to fit Mr. Baelish with a new hat, and a clean pair of underwear!
I real shame how under-written Tyrion has become this season. His character seems to be meandering and has been the weakest of all the main characters in Meereen, IMO. Really hoping that Dany gets back soon so that we can get that whole thing underway. Although I'm assuming now that they're going to have to wait until Euron's Iron Fleet gets there. Looks like they're merging his character with the younger Victarian brother - wondering if they're going to reveal the Dragonbinder horn, or if they're going to do an Old Valyria side-story and have them quest it out on their way to Slaver's Bay. I don't know how they did it, but I'm actually kind of intrigued by the Ironborn story line now. What is Yara & Theon going to do now that they're in self-exile? Are they going to try to get to Dany ahead of Euron, or join forces with some other military in one of the upcoming battles?
SO loving the pacing of this season. It's going too fast now.
The way I interpreted that was that Ned was actually reacting to something else that had happened in the past. You can kind of see this happening in other visions. Bran was mostly just a viewer watching these things unfold. I think that changed with Hodor when he saw what was happening to him and tried to interfere. At this point, I'm not entirely convinced he caused it, rather it was a representation of some major trauma in Hodor's life that coincided with these current events, imprinting themselves on it.
There were hints that Bran could have the slightest interaction with people he was seeing. IIRC, in the first GOT book, he (and Ned) could hear "whispers" from the tree that was generally dismissed as the rustling of the leaves. Later on, as Bran got to see things through the tree's eyes, the "whispers" may have been the Three Eyed Crow or the Children reaching out to them as historical lynch-pins, who were clearly seen reacting to that interaction. The show is definitely taking that interaction up to the next level, producing more active (and extremely drastic) interactions with the past that I didn't think was possible.
Re: Euron's "resurrection" - they definitely made this seem considerably more spiritual event than what was in the books, which instead described a rudimentary form of CPR to resuscitate the drowned ones - possibly an ancient scientific knowledge that was passed down through Drowned God Priests and moved its way into the religious mythology as one of the priesthood's "mysteries". There should have been nothing mystical about it at all, but when Euron came back to life - on his own - with people standing around watching, it definitely gave it a more metaphysical tone than what was originally intended.
They are (believed to be) the first race of Westeros, living in harmony with nature, worshipping the Old Gods of the forest for thousands of years before The First Men landed on their shores from Essos 12,000 years prior to the shows timeline.
They used old magic, most potently through powerful members called "Greenseers", and attempted to hold back Man's encroachment on the forest, eventually going to war against them. A pact was finally made between the two races, but the Children's numbers were massively depleted and when The Others arrived The War of Dawn took place with Children/Man taking them on, pushing them back and then co-operatively building The Wall. The First Men would hence become the North Men, Wildings, Ironborn, taking up, adopting and adapting The Children's religion.
That was 8000 years ago, and a few thousand years later the Andals came along (again from the East) and began to hunt the Children down, destroy the forests further, specifically attacking their religion and the heart trees (which contain their spirits). The Andals would fight The First Men also, taking control of the middle and south of Westeros, never being able to fully conquer the north (Until the Targaryn's arrived) or drive out their religious beliefs.
Driven out of Westeros, northwards, beyond the wall, only a small group of The Children were thought to survive, so they almost passed into myth, with only rogue sightings by Wildings and Crows... until Bran found the small enclave associated with the Three Eyed Raven.
They are basically extinct and at this stage, following the breach upon the TER's sanctuary, it is unknown if there are more and where they could be.
What I failed to look out for was whether the producers of the show decided to keep up on their biology, as The Children, whilst also being small in stature, are supposed to only have four digits on each hand. Anyone else notice?
Hugo - #holdthedoor
I was half-expecting him to die there and then and the crowd just shrugging their shoulders: "Oh well. Maybe he wasn't our next ruler after all."
That would have been funny, although there is definitely a plan for them (and Euron) at this point.Anyone know what role Ian McShane is supposed to be playing this season? I remember his name coming up and thought he would make a kick-ass Euron, but since that role's filled by another actor, I'm kind of at a loss as to who he might be.
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