Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)

[Orphalesion]

My reactions were basically:

Yay Olanna! "Famous tart, Queen Cersei"

Maegery, no! I really hoped she'd be spared being accused in the show.

Yay for Sansa putting Myranda in her place!

And then.....the bad thing happened...

hey if they follow the Season 1 Daenerys way, next week she'll suddenly be in love with the guy who raped her, and be asking tips from Myranda in the bath on how to please him!

Oh yeah, Daenerys and her romanticized case of Stockholm Syndrome with the horse rapist...

 

[M.A.C.O.]

So let's hold a raffle.

Who is going to kill Ramsay?

A. Sansa
B. Theon
C. Myranda
D. Stannis
E. Brienne
F. Jon Snow

 

[Caligula]

So let's hold a raffle.

Who is going to kill Ramsay?

A. Sansa
B. Theon
C. Myranda
D. Stannis
E. Brienne
F. Jon Snow

G. A through E take turns. Jon Snow's got his own thing he's busy with at the moment, otherwise he'd have an arrow with the little psycho's name on it.

In all likelihood, though, it's most likely B.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sansa needs to be the one to kill Ramsay, and really should've done so the second the whole wedding night sequence started.

I wanted to like this episode as a whole, but aside from the stuff in Dorne and with Jorah and Tyrion, nothing seemed to have any real through-line - which is the first time that's happened in the series so far - and so I was left feeling disappointed and more than a little confused.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The narrative seems to be setting up for Theon to do it more than anyone else.

Huh, I considered Mr Eko then dismissed the option. Maybe the lack of facial hair threw me off.

The Daenarys situation was a little bit different from the Sansa situation. For her, getting Drago to fall in love with her upgraded her status from slave to wife and got her out of Viserys' control. Also Drago was not a psychopath.

 

[DarthTom]

I was trying to figure out Petyr's scheme in this episode. It appeared in the last one he was trying to setup a battle between Stannis and the Boltons - hedging his bet on Stannis. That seems to have changed by getting Cersi to agree to allowing the soldiers from the Vail to represent the 7 Kingdoms in an engagment with the Boltons in exchange for making him ward of the North.

 

[FPAlpha]

I was trying to figure out Petyr's scheme in this episode. It appeared in the last one he was trying to setup a battle between Stannis and the Boltons - hedging his bet on Stannis. That seems to have changed by getting Cersi to agree to allowing the soldiers from the Vail to represent the 7 Kingdoms in an engagment with the Boltons in exchange for making him ward of the North.

That may still be his plan.. steer Stannis to Winterfel where both armies will bleed each other until there is only a weakened winner and then move in with a fresh, experienced force to mop up the remains and become Warden of the North.

Not a bad way to gain power from a simple businessman to a lord of a Kingdom, the longest game might even aim at the Iron Throne itself given that there currently is a weak boy king and an incompetent, emotional queen mother.. easy play for someone like him though there are worthier opponents like the Queen of Thorns.

As to Sansa.. i am so disappointed in her character. At the end of season 4 she seemed to break out and take charge of her life only to become the victim again surrounded by powerful and cruel men. Is that her lot in life?
We also don't get the faintest glimmer that she's playing them and biding her time so either there will be a huge turnaround or she'll remain the victim forever.

The episode in general felt very weak apart from the interesting developments with Arya. It all seemed cobbled together without sense or direction, just set pieces that you could cut up scene by scene and watch them on their own and you wouldn't lose much.

I hope the show picks up speed and starts bringing all these threads together soon or it might be regarded as the weakest season in an otherwise brilliant show.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Well, that was intense (as Ramsay might've said). The third rape of a prominent female character in the series so far (Dany on her wedding night, Cersei when Jaime returned) but this was easily the most disturbing. Just when it looked like Sansa was beginning to know how to use her powers and manipulate. I actually thought they might pull a fly one and have Bolton's bastard live up to his word not to harm her but that was kinda silly of me.

I do think Reek/Theon is going to have some sort of redemptive arc here; he was as traumatised as the viewer watching the rape. I think he might die delivering her to Brienne and Pod, but not before he tells her that Bran and Rickon live.

Baelish continues to play a dangerous game but presumably he knows what he's doing. I think he's betting on all sides at this stage. My guess is that he'll watch the likely outcome of any battle for Winterfell, be it a Bolton win or a Baratheon one and will come in at the last minute to ensure victory for the already-winning side, so as to claim the glory.

Cersei, on the other hand, is going to regret alienating House Tyrell, of that I'm sure. I was surprised that Oleanna let her away with as much as she did; that's not going to last for long. (Littlefinger's line about the curiosity of people's choice of partner wins the Westeros internet, however).

Some great lines from Tyrion (his best self-preservation efforts since season 1, arguably) though he and Iain Glenn played the more solemn stuff (the news of the Old Bear's death) appropriately sombrely. Off to the fighting pits for them, then.

As to where Jaime and Bronn go to from here, I've no idea. However, I suspect that Prince Doran is too wily to execute the King's father/uncle. Bronn? Possibly a different kettle of fish (or snakes). Here's hoping that his popularity saves him!

 

[Klaus]

Baelish continues to play a dangerous game but presumably he knows what he's doing. I think he's betting on all sides at this stage. My guess is that he'll watch the likely outcome of any battle for Winterfell, be it a Bolton win or a Baratheon one and will come in at the last minute to ensure victory for the already-winning side, so as to claim the glory.

Yes, this is what I think he's doing too... or what he thinks he's doing.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Sansa needs to be the one to kill Ramsay, and really should've done so the second the whole wedding night sequence started.

I'm surprised Theon didn't do anything to stop it from happening. It might have salvaged him from Sansa's ill-feelings against him. But from the moment the wedding was announced a few episodes ago, I figured this would happen, that she'd be stuck in an unhappy marriage. An ugly marriage.

On the whole though, so far, this episode has been my favourite this season.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The thing about Theon is that he's too well trained at this point to do anything. If he had any willpower left in him he would have been rescued by his sister. If he's going to be the one to kill Ramsay he needs something to build him back up a little first.

It'll be interesting to see how the problem with the Tyrells plays out. Cersei can't really kill Loras and Margery because she still needs the Tyrell support. And if the Tyrells withhold that support they risk the lives of Loras and Margery. But also Cersei is building her power base on the backs of people who might take issue with the small matter of incest.

Tyrion seems to be betting that when the slavers attempt to sell them at the fighting pits, they will be killed for being slavers and they can escape in the madness. I don't know what Jora's plans are now that he's infected with grayscale. Maybe he's just in denial and trying to ignore it. Speaking of the fighting pits, I'm surprised Daenarys didn't attach a condition that fights not be to the death.

 

[DigificWriter]

Well, that was intense (as Ramsay might've said). The third rape of a prominent female character in the series so far (Dany on her wedding night, Cersei when Jaime returned) but this was easily the most disturbing.

The Cersei/Jamie thing wasn't a rape.

I took issue with the Sansa stuff because I'm sick of the writers portraying her as a naive and imbecilic victim, especially since they claim that her character is one of their favorites.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Bryan Cogman, the writer of this week's episode explains Sansa's wedding night horror

 

[DigificWriter]

Cogman is entitled to express the writers' intent all he wants, but I don't buy the assertion that Sansa is a different character than the naive little girl who dreamt of a fairy-tale marriage to Joffrey.

I also don't buy that she chose to marry Ramsay. I believe that she foolishly let herself be manipulated into marrying him rather than actually making any sort of choice for herself, which further makes the character come across as stupid, naive, and a continual victim.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Never thought we'd miss this little bastard.

Joffery would know how to handle the Faith Militant.


Tommen be like, "Margery what? I can't disobey my mama". lol

 

[FPAlpha]

It'll be interesting to see how the problem with the Tyrells plays out. Cersei can't really kill Loras and Margery because she still needs the Tyrell support. And if the Tyrells withhold that support they risk the lives of Loras and Margery. But also Cersei is building her power base on the backs of people who might take issue with the small matter of incest.

Which is what Cersei's character is all about.. she's incompetent. She's petty, vindictive, powerhungry yet incapable to do what must be done in an intelligent way to actually hold, gain and consolidate power.

She's ruled by her need for vengeance against those she perceives to be her enemies (imagined or not) and is thus very short sighted so sooner or later it will come back to bite her in the ass.

So far there was always someone above her in power, be it Tywin, Robert Baratheon and the little shit Joffrey who got away from her.

Now she thinks she's in charge and is trying to rule from behind but she has so many secrets that it should be comparatively easy to shoot her down for someone as experienced as Oleanna Tyrell. It'll be fun to watch her crash and burn

 

[Captaindemotion]

Well, that was intense (as Ramsay might've said). The third rape of a prominent female character in the series so far (Dany on her wedding night, Cersei when Jaime returned) but this was easily the most disturbing.

The Cersei/Jamie thing wasn't a rape.

She said no, he carried on. Sound like rape to me. And yes, I know it was different in the book.

I've seen people try to say that Ramsay didn't rape Sansa because (a) they were married & (b) she removed her clothing and didn't resist him. Still looked like rape to me.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

I think that what felt wrong for me in that rape scene was all the screaming.

Compare to the same situation with Drogo and Daenerys. She knew she had no choice. She definately wasnt happy, but she accepted it. Should have been same with Sansa. She knew what was coming, in some way or another. And she was completely in control of herself in previous scenes.

I would have understood that reaction from Sansa if she had married Joffrey and that had happened on their wedding night. But Sansa now is or atleast has been shown to have grown as a woman. She went through similar thing with Tyrion and she cant be naive enough to think her "luck" would last.

Theon's reaction was ok and understandable, but Sansa's screams in the background were unnecessary.

 

[Forbin]

I'm sure that if she hadn't screamed, Ramsay would have been displeased and made her scream.

There are so many different ways I'd like to see him die.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Sansa went in that room knowing that she would be having sex with Ramsay but she didn't expect that manner of sex. She expected something a little more gentle and certainly not with Theon watching. She may have consented to sex but not violent sex, and that does make it rape.

Sansa isn't as naive as she was at the beginning. She's become cynical and she's trying to be manipulative, she just doesn't have the skill set to do it. She believed Baelish would protect her against anything bad happening because he kissed her.

There've been some male characters raped too. Theon, Gendry. It's just easier to convince ourselves that when a guy is tied up in a dungeon and a woman touches his penis that he's actually into it.

The Drogo/Daenarys thing is an interesting gray territory. First off, all the Dothraki rape women constantly. For most of human history, every time one city conquers another the first thing the solders went out and did was rape all the women. In the Battle of Blackwater, Tyrion seems absolutely certain that if Stannis conquered the city, his soldiers would rape all the women. That's what the writers were trying to evoke with the Dothraki, cast them as barbarians from Roman times. The case with Daenarys was different because she was forced to give consent by her brother. She was raped but arguably it was Viserys who was the rapist, not Drogo. So when Daenarys tried to learn to make Drogo happy, she was fighting back against her brother, not embracing Drogo, at least not until later on.

It's hard for me to get upset about the sexual violence in Game of Thrones because it's the sort of show you have to watch as a period piece, only set in a fictional period. Just as you wouldn't apply modern morality to a show about the birth of the Roman Empire, you don't apply it to Game of Thrones.