Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)

[137th Gebirg]

Is 'this' Night's King not the same as the one of legends?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King

Holy shit! I totally forgot about that. I wonder if this is the same person. Not sure if that tracks, because it says that he ruled after the Wall had been built, for the purpose of protecting against the Others. He may be the offspring of the original Night's King and White Queen. Which would obviously sink my "Sons of Craster" theory out of the water!

Good catch! Way too obscure a reference to now appear in a prominent adversarial role without there being some significance.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

White walkers that are converted from children are sentient and intelligent, the zombies risen from the dead are just automatons.

I liked that episode a lot. Added some action to a mostly actionless season and did some great work with zombie makeup.

Interesting that apparently valerian steel, in addition to dragonglass can kill white walkers. Is that also true in the books? I wonder if they established that specifically so they could later throw walkers at Brienne.

 

[Venardhi]

I don't think they've given him an official name yet. As far as I can tell, that is just a name from the text that people started applying to him after his first appearance. The legend is hard to parse for what is likely history and what is myth, but it seems likely if any of it is true then his queen was most likely an Other or a wight of some kind, and he was somehow magically entranced by her or some darker force. Isn't there a "The Great Other" referenced a few times? What does Mel call the enemy of R'hllor in the show?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Interesting that apparently valerian steel, in addition to dragonglass can kill white walkers. Is that also true in the books? I wonder if they established that specifically so they could later throw walkers at Brienne.

Yes, but it was called dragonsteel in the ancient texts Sam was reading at Castle Black, and Sam and Jon weren't sure at the time if it was the same thing as Valyrian steel.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=11153073


On a side note, the Night's King's pose also reminded me of this:

 

[sidious618]

In the "Inside the Episode" HBO feature, Benioff referred to the head White Walker as the "Night King" so I think that is officially his name.

 

[Orphalesion]

Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is The Night King. It could just be a backstage name the production team assigned to him because it fits.

I would really like to see a female Other, like the original Night Kiing's Queen probably was.
I can't remember did Bran tell the legen of the Night King to the Reeds? If so then it might have been foreshadowing that the White Walker leader might really be The Night King.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

On a side note, the Night's King's pose also reminded me of this:

And this one.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So can you have a Giant white walker? How many would have to swarm him before he died I wonder.. it's totally doable given the never ending supply. Like if he was in a pit and hundreds fell upon him and kept chewing and chewing until they got to a vital organ.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I don't think they've given him an official name yet. As far as I can tell, that is just a name from the text that people started applying to him after his first appearance. The legend is hard to parse for what is likely history and what is myth, but it seems likely if any of it is true then his queen was most likely an Other or a wight of some kind, and he was somehow magically entranced by her or some darker force. Isn't there a "The Great Other" referenced a few times? What does Mel call the enemy of R'hllor in the show?

Yes, she did mention that, I think one or two seasons back. Some have postulated that it may be the Three Eyed Crow. This may make some kind of sense if the Children of the Forest set all this up as a greater plot to take back the entire continent of Westeros from humanity who stole it from them. Although it's curious why they didn't just simply wave off the Whites as they were trying to attack Bran's group getting to the Tree instead of blowing them up. It's possible that maybe Three Eyed Crow once controlled the Others but since had gotten so old and tired that his influence only extends in the immediate vicinity and through the TreeNet. This would explain why Bran is needed to replace him, to get the Others back under control.

There is an article in the Wiki of Ice and Fire on this, but it may be a bit spoilerish if the theory turns out to be true.

So can you have a Giant white walker? How many would have to swarm him before he died I wonder.. it's totally doable given the never ending supply. Like if he was in a pit and hundreds fell upon him and kept chewing and chewing until they got to a vital organ.

Was wondering the exact same thing myself when watching that scene. I can't imagine the horror they would experience if they saw Wun Wun with glowing blue eyes running at the Wall and knocking down the main door without even breaking a sweat.

 

[Venardhi]

You're consistently pushing the limits of what should be elaborated on in this thread without spoiler text Gebirg, I want to keep this going but we have another thread for talking freely and some of this should probably head that way. For the sake of our fellow watchers let's be considerate here.

As far as your theory:

Spoiler: More theorizing.

Bloodraven has only been in the tree for like 70 years. Again, the Others have been around for millennia, and have been the enemies of the Children for at least as long as man has been on the continent. They were the ones keeping them in check before, and there is no reason to believe they still aren't working at that goal, even if they've failed in the task.

We don't actually know if any of this religious stuff has any basis in "reality" on Martin's world. That there is magic at work suggests it, but R'hllor and The Great Other and the Seven and everything else they worship may just be bullshit and there is only primal magics drawn upon in different ways based on the beliefs and expectations of those wielding it.

Bloodraven and the Children would seem to serve the old gods, who may or may not be the enemy of R'hllor, but that doesn't mean they are allied with The Others.

Also, please, for my sanity:
White Walkers: aka "The Others", the big frosty guys who aren't dead.
Wights: The risen dead in thrall to them.

Note the spelling, and that Wights aren't zombies that turn you if they kill you. As far as we know, anyone (and anything) that dies north of the wall can rise as a Wight if the body isn't burned.

Thank you for your cooperation in my continued mental health.

 

[137th Gebirg]

^^^ Apologies for the spelling - the similarity in title usage (Wights vs. White Walkers) gets munged up in my tired old head on occasion. Based on your response, I gather you managed to get the gist of what I was saying.

I did mention the link to the Wiki to be spoilerish and everything else was a theory based on what we've already seen so far (not a spoiler based on known fact), so I consider myself covered there.

Yes, the theory is extremely far-fetched, and I find myself gathering a new enjoyment of the show now that we're moving into uncharted territory, causing these theories to bubble up more frequently based on what others have noticed. It's all a part of the fun of it.

Sorry about hurting your brain.

 

[sidious618]

Okay, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is The Night King. It could just be a backstage name the production team assigned to him because it fits.

I would really like to see a female Other, like the original Night Kiing's Queen probably was.
I can't remember did Bran tell the legen of the Night King to the Reeds? If so then it might have been foreshadowing that the White Walker leader might really be The Night King.

I doubt Benioff would just accidentally say it and then HBO wouldn't refilm it. I think he's supposed to be taken as the Night King and I see no reason to assume otherwise. Whether there's a power above him only time will tell.

 

[Venardhi]

It could very well be that this is a wholecloth new element they've introduced to give the White Walkers a "Borg Queen" and they're just borrowing the name because it sounds cool.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Or maybe the guy we've seen so far is just this 'level boss' and we'll see someone above him before the series ends. Not likely I know, but possible.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

We've seen a giant be killed by a well placed bolt. I don't know if the regular deads are capable of enough coordination to strike precisely enough to kill one but I bet the walkers are. And I guess if enough of them swarmed a giant, eventually they'd scratch down to an artery, but that'd be a big waste of corpsepower. If they want to kill a giant, they'd be better off just leveraging the walkers.

Anyone know why that walker spared Sam at the end of season 2? It definitely seemed like it saw him. Did he think he'd be too fat to make a good corpse soldier?

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

That entire 2x10/3x01 arrangement is a bit "off" for me. I'd appreciate any insight on that question as well. Fist of the First Men getting the treatment it received remains my only major lost-opportunity with the show, which I realize puts me in a really good position relative to many other fans but as a big-time Night's Watch mark it still leaves me cold. I wish even 30 more seconds of that fight could have been seen in "Valar Dohaeris".

 

[137th Gebirg]

Anyone know why that walker spared Sam at the end of season 2? It definitely seemed like it saw him. Did he think he'd be too fat to make a good corpse soldier?

My guess it's one of those well-used tropes of "leave this one alive to send a message back to his masters that we're coming". I'd like to think it's something more esoteric and interesting than that, but probably not. I think Sam just got lucky.

 

[theenglish]

It could very well be that this is a wholecloth new element they've introduced to give the White Walkers a "Borg Queen" and they're just borrowing the name because it sounds cool.

Or it could be because the writers actually have information that not even readers of the books have right now.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

^^^ Apologies for the spelling - the similarity in title usage (Wights vs. White Walkers) gets munged up in my tired old head on occasion.

It's almost as bad as Sauron and Saruman!

 

[Evil Twin]

Well, it wouldn't have been as bad if they went with "Others", the more commonly used name for them in the books, but Lost probably spoiled that for them.