Galen Marek: Star Wars' Ultimate Mary Sue?
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I have to say that Seven of Nine is the ulimate Canon Sue for Star Trek-- in addition to fitting all the Mary-Sue indicators... not to mention the part being written for the primadonna actress being a show-off who happened to be sleeping with the producer, while he clearly was her nerdy little leg-humper whom she dumped once he served his purpose.
Here's the Checklist:
I think she could give Marrissa a run for her strawberry-money.
Here's the Checklist:
- Transplanted 20th century native - check
- Unusual eye colour (violet, amber, etc.) - I'll accept the eyebrow thing
- Unusual name (including spelling variations of common names involving y or e, Terran ethnic name on an alien world, etc.) - CHECK; even her Borg name is unusual (i.e. "Seven of nine" vs. "Seventh of Nine, as it should be-- meanwhile "Seven of Nine simply is another way of saying "63")
- Her hair is mentioned repeatedly (down to her waist, fell in blue-black waves, etc.) -- the Borg are bald, but she's got a perm-- so check
- Rules that apply to others are bent or broken for her - CHECK!
- Is often maverick or unconventional, bordering on insubordinate - CHECK!
- Excels at everything she turns her hand to or conversely, fails at everything she turns her hand to, but is forgiven -- TRIPLE-check!
- Is connected to a member of the senior staff, either through familial or psuedo-familial ties ("adopted" daughter, etc.) or through a romantic relationship - CHECK CHECK!
- Is unusually physically attractive -- catsuit-underwear and T&A fills the foreground of every screenshot-- CHECK!
- Interacts socially with the senior staff rather than her own peer group -- more like the senior staff interacts with HER-- CHECK!
- Has uncanny or supernatural abilities and skills (does not apply if the character is Ocampan, Vulcan, Betazoid, or a member of a race with documented extra-sensory powers) -- she's human, so CHECK!
- Is unusually accomplished for her age -- QUADRUPLE check!
- Has a particularly traumatic past - QUINTUPLE check!
- Is universally liked and/or respected by the entire crew - Even the EMH tries to screw her-- CHECK!
- Has an excellent singing voice - as shown in the holodeck episode-- CHECK!
- Is unusually skilled in areas outside her duty assignment (example: is a nurse, but also an expert hacker) - she's not only a separated Borg-drone, she has ALL the skills of the Borg collective-- CHECK!
- Shares a hobby or passion with a male member of the senior staff -- ALL of them-- CHECK!
- Is recognised publicly for feats above and beyond the call of duty -- every other episode-- CHECK!
- Dies a heroic death and is mourned by all -- "Endgame--" CHECK!
I think she could give Marrissa a run for her strawberry-money.
I think a Mary Sue is just somebody who is so smart, so powerful, so perfect that they make the main characters of an established universe almost pale in comparison.
Arguably, someone like James T. Kirk has Mary Sue-like qualities, but that's okay. He's supposed to be the kickass hero.
But if they had introduced some new character into Star Trek who was just as good or better than him, he or she would be considered a Mary Sue by fans.
Arguably, someone like James T. Kirk has Mary Sue-like qualities, but that's okay. He's supposed to be the kickass hero.
But if they had introduced some new character into Star Trek who was just as good or better than him, he or she would be considered a Mary Sue by fans.
I completely agree. Kratos from God of War, Master Chief from Halo, and many other game characters can destroy entire armies and save the universe a hundred times, and they are cool. They are the hero of their world, not some a fan insert of an existing franchise.
I know it's said before, but I want to say it again. The Force Unleashed appears to be some fanboys' fantasy that they are some all powerful jedi inserted a beloved, established universe, who is so important to the history of said universe.
No, that could be Spock, or even Khan or some other villain. It's about context.
A Mary Sue is a friend who renders enemies obsolute; its the sign of narcissistic and egocentric writer, with the Sue-character being obnoxious and implausibly taking over the entire story like Gary Seven, while every other character suddenly becomes weaker and ancillary to the Sue. (This was originally the case wih Wesley, but they nipped that in the bud... fortunately). Nothing is earned-- especially audience goodwill-- but simply usurped with the stoke of a pen. Naturally, intelligent, self-respecting audiences are disgusted by such presumption, however some noobs will be thrilled by character's perfection and "edge."
This was clearly the case with 7/9, who was inexplicably different from Hugh-- that's right, Trek had already covered the topic of ex-Borg, remember folks? They were fairly human once removed from the collective, and even had a strong moral sense.
But then Olympic gymnast "Mary Sue Retcon" does some backflips with continuity, and now with 7/9, we're to believe that Borg are superhuman wonders who become the center of everything, and who look like underwear-models while talking with attitudes rather than monotone-voices. Oh yeah, and saves the ship every episode-- but only if it involves "breaking the rules," since Mary Sues are above those.
Check, please-- reality version.
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I agree that it's all about context, that's partly why I mentioned character"s" of an established universe, not character. Spock from the beginning is established as being at least Kirk's equal in intelligence and superior in knowledge. So fans don't care when Spock dazzles everyone with his brilliance. As for Khan, he's not a Sue because despite all of his supposed brilliance and strength, Kirk beats the shit out of him, and then outmaneuvers him again in the movie. Villains are supposed to challenge the hero so I tend not to think of them as Sues.
But I do agree with Gary Seven as being a bit of a Sue. He basically shows up out of nowhere and practically takes over the episode - even shrugging off Vulcan nerve pinches. All that, plus we're supposed to be cheering for him as a hero. That's partly because Roddenberry wanted to create a series out of his character.
As for Seven, she was Mary Sueish. But I personally feel that despite that, she was more interesting than a lot of the established characters - not to mention hotter. Plus, they gave her some notable flaws. And I don't care about Voyager anyway, so if she was a Sue, it's not like she invaded my favorite show or anything. But I could see why a Voyager fan may have been peeved by her.
Oh, 7/9 was the worst kind of Mary Sue there is-- a "Primadonna Sue." This is a Mary Sue with connections to the production-staff-- worst of all of a clandestine variety-- that they use to barge in, take over center-stage and wreak their Sue-ness.
And that is 7/9 all the way. It doesn't matter whether you care about a story or not, a Sue is a Sue; in fact a Mary Sue can turn an indifferent story into one that you hate, as Voyager.
And who says a Mary Sue can't have flaws? As noted here, a Mary Sue lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws— either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
If that's not 7, then the sappy, "endearing" music whenever one of her flaws became the climax of the weekly plot is misplaced.
And that is 7/9 all the way. It doesn't matter whether you care about a story or not, a Sue is a Sue; in fact a Mary Sue can turn an indifferent story into one that you hate, as Voyager.
And who says a Mary Sue can't have flaws? As noted here, a Mary Sue lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws— either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
If that's not 7, then the sappy, "endearing" music whenever one of her flaws became the climax of the weekly plot is misplaced.
Unfortunately that fanboy is Lucas. So now there's a Mary Sue that can pull down Star Destroyers, create the Rebel Alliance and everything else, die a glorious death of sacrifice, and tick off every other Mary Sue indicator.... and claim to be CANON, despite being a complete retcon; that's an important reason to exclude non-films from canonicity.
Lucas was consulted and OKed all of the key aspects of the Unleashed games/books. He didn't create it, but he granted it canon status. Book/game level canon, anyway.
And damn, I forgot all about this thread.
Seven month's old necro much?
And damn, I forgot all about this thread.
Seven month's old necro much?
Did he?
I flipped through the art book, I think only Lucasfilm reps met with the game designers.
I flipped through the art book, I think only Lucasfilm reps met with the game designers.
BRAAAINS!
Best to let sleeping threads lie, especially when yours was the last post made.
Size matters not. ( Except when it does matter... I mean matter it does. )
Oh, 7/9 was the worst kind of Mary Sue there is-- a "Primadonna Sue." This is a Mary Sue with connections to the production-staff-- worst of all of a clandestine variety-- that they use to barge in, take over center-stage and wreak their Sue-ness.
And that is 7/9 all the way. It doesn't matter whether you care about a story or not, a Sue is a Sue; in fact a Mary Sue can turn an indifferent story into one that you hate, as Voyager.
And who says a Mary Sue can't have flaws? As noted here, a Mary Sue lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws— either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
If that's not 7, then the sappy, "endearing" music whenever one of her flaws became the climax of the weekly plot is misplaced.
Seven is no more a Mary Sue than Spock was, only difference is that she wasn't in the show from day one.
Hell, the EMH is just as much a Mary Sue and no one complains about him.
And heck, let's face it: A Mary Sue is just a main character who wasn't there from day one. The term "Mary Sue" has nearly lost all proper meaning today, folks are too critical over these things.
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I already explained it's about context.
Spock was a Vulcan, he never did anything that other Vulcans couldn't do.
Seven pretty much did EVERYTHING that the other disconnected Borg couldn't... it went from "I, Borg" to "I f-- the producer."
I already explained it's about context.
Spock was a Vulcan, he never did anything that other Vulcans couldn't do.
Seven pretty much did EVERYTHING that the other disconnected Borg couldn't... it went from "I, Borg" to "I f-- the producer."
We only ever saw one real disconnected Borg, Hugh. And we never saw how powerful he could be.
Heck, the "Descent" Borg seemed more powerful than Seven.
We certainly did; he was more or less just a normal person in his abilities, except for his holographic eye; that's why Picard refused to destroy them when given the chance.
And the detached Borg in Descent I&II were the same as Hugh, i.e. they had no special intelligence or adaptation abilities when disconnected from the Collective.
They were about as strong as Data, but only with their slow bionic implants. Seven didn't have any such bionics.
But despite this, Seven had all the abilities of a Borg Drone in the collective, despite being detached from it.
That fits the definition of a Mary Sue to the hilt.
And the Borg in Descent was named Crosis.
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