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Spoilers Fugitive of the Judoon grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Fugitive of the Judoon?

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    95
HOLY FUCK. That was great. Loved it. Don't care if it breaks anything. Loved it.

I'm sorta of hoping that it will be a sort of Grant Morrison "every version of Batman happened" sort of thing. Like somewhere out there the Cushing Doctor exists, Ruth-Doctor exists. Maybe space and time has fractured--that's the lie the Time Lords told, were hiding. Who knows.

But, I found it a super gratifying episode because it gave us some very unexpected what the fuck moments--and some times you just need those. It was nice to just not have an idea of how the episode was going to end.
 
StCoop said:
How is having an ongoing story putting yourself in a corner? I'm always seeing people complaining about standalone "filler" episodes.
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Who is episodic at its core, with arcs being a bit of a thing. But the arc is usually worked in with the stories. This is more like the x files model, all arc. No one will complain about filler episodes in who, because there’s no such thing.
It’s a problem because they have stacked their house very high, very early.
 
Obviously, the Doctor or the Master or the Monk, or someone, went back in time and pivoted Gallifrey towards a different destiny , they just had to go way back (Before Genesis of the Daleks?) to avoid starting the time war again, which is were every thing went wrong.

The New Doctor could be as early as Three, having just escaped exile after the Timelords picked a new face for her.
 
Great to see Jack back and we better get to see him and the 13th Doctor meet. Now speaking of Doctor's while I'm very intrigued by the story arc this season they need to be very careful, very. Chibnall's era hasn't been bothered with ignoring the past and is reusing an old storyline (Galifrey destruction) but a Doctor from the past we never knew about? Come on we did that and it was under special circumstances due to the Time War. 11th Doctor had no original regenerations left by "The Time of The Doctor" so rewriting the main history of the main character is this way I expect will not go down well.

I've always wondered by Time Lords from another Universe and I wonder if this Doctor is from the place those weird ass creatures from the opening 2 episodes are from. I don't believe for a second this Doctor is our Doctor.

Hartnell is Doctor 1 end of! and we know the rest.
 
Pindar said:
Why would the Doctor forget being a man?
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The rumour I heard was that there is an entirely female line of Doctor, a full set of 13, and the Hartnell Doc was the first of a new set of regenerations, and forgot all about being female. The rumour suggested that shortly after the Doctor finds this out, she then forgets Hartnell to Capaldi and regenerates thinking that she's The Doctor, The Original, you might say.
 
Irvy said:
The rumour I heard was that there is an entirely female line of Doctor, a full set of 13, and the Hartnell Doc was the first of a new set of regenerations, and forgot all about being female. The rumour suggested that shortly after the Doctor finds this out, she then forgets Hartnell to Capaldi and regenerates thinking that she's The Doctor, The Original, you might say.
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God I hate that. The Doctor memories make him who he/she is and not too mention The Doctor has been playing around with history for so long this would of come up. It would be needless re-write of the core of the show for nothing but shock value and would be the most divisive thing ever to occur for the fandom IMO. You think someone from his own species would of mentioned it at once, The Master at least. We also know the Doctor who was a small male child (his Hartnell life) and Time Lords don't regenerate back into childhood appearance.
 
Our Doctor isn't real.

The universe was destroyed, and a universe without the Doctor, or so it would seem, was recreated, big bang 2, in it's place where River tricked Amy into wishing that the Doctor was real, and he magically appeared.

What if there was always already a real Doctor indigenous to this new second universe in play, who we only just met now?
 
Jax said:
Time Lords don't regenerate back into childhood appearance.
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River did. "Mels" told Rory and Amy that the last time she regenerated she ended up a baby in New York.

Now you could argue special case due to her human DNA.

BF and the comics also have a kid version of the Master fighting part of the Time War before regenerating into the Yana version. But then the Time Lords might have resurrected him in that form.

If they can change sex, skin tone and de-age/age 40-50+ years in appearance, I don't think "become a kid again" is out of the question. Nine even hinted non-human forms are possible (and Romana "trialed" a few such bodies).
 
Guy Gardener said:
Our Doctor isn't real.

The universe was destroyed, and a universe without the Doctor, or so it would seem, was recreated, big bang 2, in it's place where River tricked Amy into wishing that the Doctor was real, and he magically appeared.

What if there was always already a real Doctor indigenous to this new second universe in play, who we only just met now?
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I would prefer this, it's like the universe needs the Doctor, but we both know that's not going to happen. We'll come up with all the good ideas on here, then find out that they went with the stupid obvious safe option that came off the top of someone's head in a pitch meeting.

You can't just do something stupid and then defend it by saying you wanted to subvert expectations. You still did a stupid thing and you're just shite shining. Having entire lives that the Doctor doesn't remember, well that's just reincarnation and some of us have done that loads of times, we just don't remember. Remembering is what makes the Doctor special.

And to that, I watched an interview where Jodie said she hadn't watched any episodes of the classic run and wasn't going to until after her tenure so that it didn't influence her performance. She needs to watch them now because they need to INFORM her performance. So, somebody organise a clockwork orange head piece and get the DVD boxsets out. It's for the greater good.
 
jaime said:
There’s gonna be a mass of contradictions, or a mass of walking back, and well...
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When has Doctor Who not been a mass of contradiction and walking back?

Jax said:
Hartnell is Doctor 1 end of! and we know the rest.
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Has it ever been established that Hartnell was the first? The theory of regenerations before him has been floating around for decades. I'm not saying Ruth Doctor is pre-Hartnell but she easily could be.

As for her Tardis being a police box, why not? It has been implied that the doctor could fix the chameleon circuit but doesn't because they like the police box, maybe that didn't start with Hartnell, after his Doctor stole a Tardis and it became a police box again he thought "Sweet, just like old times" stomped on the chameleon circuit and called it a day.

Doctor Who is a giant pile of retcons that don't make perfect sense if we look too closely and every rule ever established has been broken at some point by a combination of frantic button pushing and rambling to hide the fact that the explanation doesn't make a lot of sense.

So if they want to introduce pre Hartnell doctors, sure, why not? If they come up with another explanation that's fine too. I'm just happy that the show does a story again that really makes me excited for next week, I haven't felt like that since season 5.

matthunter said:
If they can change sex, skin tone and de-age/age 40-50+ years in appearance, I don't think "become a kid again" is out of the question. Nine even hinted non-human forms are possible (and Romana "trialed" a few such bodies).
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Yup, both of those should easily be possible, the only reason they're not doing it is because a kid as the lead would complicate the shooting schedule and putting the doctor in alien make-up is not worth the trouble, what would the show gain from that?
 
Takeru said:
Has it ever been established that Hartnell was the first? The theory of regenerations before him has been floating around for decades
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12 regenerations for 13 lives, which ran out with 11th due to 10th using one but not changing and the War Doctor, the Math's says he was first. Look I know they can re-write it to do anything they want and I've defended the show for years when it came to criticisms against RTD and Moffat. This is purely what I can tolerate as a fan and such a drastic re-write of the main character is something I don't like and would find it hard to enjoy. If others can they good for them but I think the fanbase would seriously fracture in a way never seen before.

I hope The Master and this Doctor are trans dimensional Time Lords from a whole different reality and that means a different Galifrey was destroyed. Doctor Who has never really explored do the Timelords exist outside of all reality as well as Time/Space or do different versions exist in different realities and I assume Time Lords are unaware of this.

Are these Time Lords the one's trying to get into our Universe from the first two episodes or is it something else that goes from reality to reality destroy each version of Galifrey and the Time Lords they find.
 
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Jax said:
12 regenerations for 13 lives, which ran out with 11th due to 10th using one but not changing and the War Doctor, the Math's says he was first.
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The are multiple pre-Hartnell Doctors shown on-screen in 'The Brain Of Morbius'.
 
Jax said:
12 regenerations for 13 lives, which ran out with 11th due to 10th using one but not changing and the War Doctor, the Math's says he was first.
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Yeah, but then the time lords gave 11 a new regeneration cycle and the master was offered a new cycle in The Five Doctors so the limit is clearly artificial and the door for a pre Hartnell cycle has been open for a long time.

I hope The Master and this Doctor are trans dimensional Time Lords from a whole different reality and that means a different Galifrey was destroyed. Doctor Who has never really explored do the Timelords exist outside of all reality as well as Time/Space or do different versions exist in different realities and I assume Time Lords are unaware of this.
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That would be interesting too, I'm not against this at all.
 
Takeru said:
Yeah, but then the time lords gave 11 a new regeneration cycle and the master was offered a new cycle in The Five Doctors so the limit is clearly artificial and the door for a pre Hartnell cycle has been open for a long time.
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Jodie's Doctor remembers her past so why would Hartnell's Doctor forget? How would this never come up in conversation with other Time Lords not even once.

How has history seemed to have forgotten them too? In 11th's opening episode the Atraxi scan for all history on the Doctor and they don't appear. What about the species from Twice Upon a Time that recorded all the dead and went through the Doctor's entire history.
 
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Jax said:
Jodie's Doctor remembers her past so why would Hartnell's Doctor forget? How would this never come up in conversation with other Time Lords not even once.
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Memory wipe? Who knows, it's not important right now, that's kind of the point of a mystery and 13 has already asked the important question why she doesn't remember. It's what gets me excited for the rest of this season.

Doctor Who is just not a show I expect to be consistent over the years as long as the journey is exciting.
 
Well, going back to the late 80s the idea was that the Doctor had an earlier life as the Other that he didn't remember, hence perhaps the Morbius Doctors (the shout of "How long have you lived?" hence becomes horror at there being more before Hartnell,when Morbius thought he had won). Not said onscreen, so open to reinterpretation now.
 
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